Keeping a stove going overnight

[PaulaJ]

HELP!

 

I have just had a Stovax Stockton 3 multifuel stove fitted and I am having trouble keeping it going all night.

 

I manage to start a new fire and feed it just fine whilst I'm at home but think I must be doing something wrong as when I bank it up at night I am unable to get it going again in the morning by just putting coal on it.

 

I'm guessing It's something to do with the vents and I'm expecting it's going to take some time to get used too but the temperature is falling and I need help and advice NOW please!

 

Thanks

 

Paula

[Mick_B]

Too much air and it burns hot and short. The correct amount of air and it burns less hot but longer. Too little air and it goes out and leaves plenty of half burnt coal. Need to find a happy medium or change your fuel.

[LoneWolf]

why are you having trouble getting it going?

 

Is it because the coals have been burning so low that they are cool and going out or are they nice and red but crumble to ash when you disturb them?

 

I usually bung a few bits of wood on first thing in the morning & open all the vents full then add more coal once the woods got going

[Grace and Favour]

PaulaJ

 

Let's start with Q1 - - what fuel are you using please? Not all solid fuels are as good at staying in overnight..........

[Bobbybass]

Different stove..I know..but with my Morso Squirrel :

 

I was banking it up too much at night.

I found that if I fussed about....raking it about...and stacked it..it didn't go so well as if I just threw a couple of 'knobs' in and ignored it.

 

Guess I was blocking the air flow too much.

[bottle]

To get mine going (different stove) I just open the vents, not to much or it blows the fire out, note I do not do anything else.

 

When glowing a nice cherry red, then I riddle it, top it up, leave vent open to get it going and then shut vent.

[dor]

My Stovax Brunel will stay in quite easily from 10ish at night to well into the afternoon the following day. Fuel used is Excel. Bottom damper fully closed, top slide closed, but it is loose enough to let a bit of air in.

 

Initially I found that leaving the bottom vent open slightly let the coal burn too quickly. I can keep it in overnight now quite easily on wood as well.

[Athy]

If it has an ashpan, scatter the ashes over your coal last thing at night. I have no idea of the scientific reason why this should help a fire stay in for longer but it has worked for me on a variety of fires.

In the morning when you've poked or riddled the ash through, if the coal sulks then a handful of kindling wood should start it burning properly again.

[tafelberg]

Yes i agree with Athy, also I found that the TYPE of coal you use seems to have an effect. I use stove glow and that works all night and in fact i came back from work this evening and it was STIILL going from last night.

[Athy]

Taybrite is also very long-burning. We use it in our Clearview stove at home. The other day I was clearing out the ashes before laying the fire for the evening. Despite not having been built up high the night before, a few of the coals were still glowing red at 2 p.m.

[carlt]

You need to live with a nesh Southerner who is able, without waking up herself, to kick you every 2 or 3 hours and mumble "Check the burner".

[Lady Muck]

PaulaJ

 

Let's start with Q1 - - what fuel are you using please? Not all solid fuels are as good at staying in overnight..........

 

Agreed. Some are definitely easier than others to keep in.

 

Plus there's been a bad batch of Supertherm this winter (I bought 12 bags boohoo!), even the coalboat hadn't realised it was a bad batch until people started to complain, they thought there was something wrong with their burner! It just won't stay in, it makes loads of sticky red ash which blocks the vent holes and suffocates the fire.

[nb Innisfree]

You need a fuel that stays a stable burner at low settings, we have tried practically all of them and found Excel to be the best in this aspect. There is a downside and that is its tendency to burn dirty leaving a lot of soot on the glass, soon sorted though with an occasional hot burn. In really cold weather we burn anthracite which burns very hot and cleanly but not very good at low settings so we load up with Excel for the overnight burn.

[Grace and Favour]

You need a fuel that stays a stable burner at low settings, we have tried practically all of them and found Excel to be the best in this aspect. There is a downside and that is its tendency to burn dirty leaving a lot of soot on the glass, soon sorted though with an occasional hot burn. In really cold weather we burn anthracite which burns very hot and cleanly but not very good at low settings so we load up with Excel for the overnight burn.

We do similar - - but with Supertherm at night - and anthracite during the day

[Pentargon]

Being aware that the OP was about "keeping a Stovax Stockton 3 multifuel stove" going all night, it's not necessarily the stove or the fuel or the settings. It's about having the instinctive know-how and the savvy to have started experimenting and learning before the real cold set in. I lived on board for some weeks last February with no heat at all. I bought a Hampshire Heater and got it working on board after a fashion within days but it has taken me months of experimentation to get a system that keeps it going ALL night. For a conventional narrowboat stove, the best all-night fuel is the Irish Peat Briquette Bale. Almost impossible to get in England. But I used them in Ireland for years on nopen fires and they never failed me. I understand that a company called Liverpool Woood Pellets claim to stock them.

 

Link: http://www.bordnamonafuels.ie/our-fuels/peat-briquettes-coal/smokeless-peat-briquettes

[PaulaJ]

Good Morning Everyone!

 

Firstly thank you for all you responses, your assistance for last night definitly helped!

 

Here are my replys to your comments and questions individually

 

LoneWolf - The coals are quite red but crumble to ash when i disturb them like you suggest. Tried putting on a few sticks and that seemed to do it then once i had some flames i put on some coal. Have come to work now so am just hopping i didn't smother it - will check it at lunch.

 

Grace & Favour - i'm using a smokeless fuel as supplied by local coal merchant and i can't be more specific than that? If it helps it costs around £7.50 for a 25Kg bag.

 

bottle - I think i may have been going wront in part as i opened up the vents all the way so was possibly blowing it out. My stove has the Tripple Airwash System so Secondary Air Control is underneath the box, Primary Air Control is near the bottom of the door and the Air Wash control just above the door. When you refer to vents which ones would correspond to the ones on my stove? Maybe you could Google a picture of the Stockton 3 controls so you could compare them to yours?

 

dor - Does your Brunel have the Tripple Airwash System? When you talk about the bottom damper do you mean the Secondary Air Control which is underneath the box or the Primary Air Control which is near the bottom of the door? And does top slide mean the Air Wash control just above the door or something else. If you have a moment could you Google a picture of the Stockton 3 controls so you could compare them to yours?

 

TO EVERYONE - I really am not stupid even if I might sound it (not that any of you are suggesting it either) but this is my first ever stove and the instruction booklet which came with it really isn't that clear for the un-initiated.

 

Paula

[LoneWolf]

Good Morning Everyone!

 

Firstly thank you for all you responses, your assistance for last night definitly helped!

 

Here are my replys to your comments and questions individually

 

LoneWolf - The coals are quite red but crumble to ash when i disturb them like you suggest. Tried putting on a few sticks and that seemed to do it then once i had some flames i put on some coal. Have come to work now so am just hopping i didn't smother it - will check it at lunch.

 

Grace & Favour - i'm using a smokeless fuel as supplied by local coal merchant and i can't be more specific than that? If it helps it costs around £7.50 for a 25Kg bag.

 

....

 

TO EVERYONE - I really am not stupid even if I might sound it (not that any of you are suggesting it either) but this is my first ever stove and the instruction booklet which came with it really isn't that clear for the un-initiated.

 

Paula

 

Hi Paula,

 

First off, don't worry about sounding stupid - it takes a while to get used to controlling the stove but you'll get it with practice.

 

ok, if you've got crumbly red coals in the morning then they are nearly burnt away so you could try loading on a few more the night before and closing the vent a tiny bit more. The morning coals should be a bit more substantial then

Sprinkling some ash on them last thing at night is a good way of slowing the burn rate as well - You could do this with half of them & see what the result is.

 

When faced with crumbly red coals in the morning I find the important thing is to retain the heat so I don't poke or riddle at all (or empty the ashpan) but bung a few bits of wood on & open all the vents then add more coals & poke if required after it's got going

 

Don't know where you are but £7.50 for a 25kg bag seems like a good price to me so it may not be the 'best' type for keeping in. As others have said I also find excel to be the easiest to control so maybe try that if you can get some

[bottle]

Hi Paula

 

The two controls on mine, lower one to the ash pan and the upper one is an 'airwash' that enters from the back at the top and down the glass door at the front.

 

As mentioned before mine is a different stove, MorsØ Squirrel.

[Grace and Favour]

Hi Paula,

 

As Lonewolf has suggested, your smokeless fuel at £7:50 per 25Kg sounds very reasonable, a little too reasonable maybe (?)

 

Try and find supplies of a branded smokeless, (my particular order of preference would be Supertherm, Excel, Taybrite) - because I know that all these will happily 'stay in' for extended periods.

 

My system for keeping a fire in overnight is: (Others have said similar)....

 

Assuming you are running your fire through the evening, about 30 minutes before I retire for the night, I ensure that the fire has a good hot bed of fuel (about 3~4" deep), I carefully clear most of the ash from the hot coals, (using a gentle use of a poker) - (check that the ashcan is not overflowing with ash - because that would restrict air supply to the fire)

 

I'll then add another 3" depth of fresh coal to the fire, and turn down the bottom air supply (almost, but not quite shut), and do similar with the top air vent.

(It's worth noting that the air vent settings may well be very slightly different by model of stove, and by type of fuel - but the principle is the same)

What you are seeking to achieve is sufficient heat from your 'red' coals to ignite the fresh fuel, but restricting the flow of air to slow the burn rate without letting it go out.

As Lonewolf has said, even putting a light layer of ash on top of the fresh fuel helps restrict the passage of air, and thus will slow the burn rate (though not too much ash please!!) - A layer of sawdust will have a similar effect, creating a crust on the fire (like the crumble on a Rhubarb crumble!)

 

You'll certainly get the hang of the process - - and there's nothing like getting up in the morning to a boat that is not too cold, with a fire that is slumbering, and all that it needs is a good, gentle, raking out of ash, opening up the air vents, and some fresh fuel. (We choose to empty our ash can at this point too)

 

Here's to a toasty winter to you !

Edited December 6, 2012 by Grace & Favour

[bizzard]

And when you open the door first thing in the morning and there's not much sign of life, just a faint redness ''DON'T Disturb the coals at all''or you will probably kill it, just gently open right up the bottom air control and leave the door ajar by about half an inch, and it should recover. When recovered a gentle poke with the poker to allow more air to flow through the coals, don't riddle it with the riddler. Once fully recovered feed more coal on.

When charging with coal make sure the whole grate is covered and always covered, if its not the draught up through the coals will take the easy route and whistle straight through gap-gaps, bypass the coals and the fire will die out.''Known in coal fired boiler parlance as the dreaded BLACK HOLE and must be filled in immediately''.

[system 4-50]

For me the key to keeping it in overnight was noticing on the bag of Excel the instruction NOT to knock out the ash. As long as the ash pan on my Puffin is kept not to full the ash drops down of its own accord at the right rate to limit the air flow and keep it focussed on where it needs to be. If I clear ALL the ash out the fire gets cold! and can go out! I had previously thought that it was necessary to clear all the ash out at night to prevent the fire getting choked and going out.

 

 

It is also much easier to light with the ash in than for a completely cleared and emptied grate.

[nb Innisfree]

For me the key to keeping it in overnight was noticing on the bag of Excel the instruction NOT to knock out the ash. As long as the ash pan on my Puffin is kept not to full the ash drops down of its own accord at the right rate to limit the air flow and keep it focussed on where it needs to be. If I clear ALL the ash out the fire gets cold! and can go out! I had previously thought that it was necessary to clear all the ash out at night to prevent the fire getting choked and going out.

 

 

It is also much easier to light with the ash in than for a completely cleared and emptied grate.

 

On our Puffin I placed a perforated steel plate behind the front fire bare to enable more smokeless fuel to be stacked higher, allows stove to stay lit on minimum setting for up to 3 days.

[Flocal]

What do we think of Wildfire coal?

 

Im using it at the moment and seems very good but not alot of mentions on here.

[sociable_hermit]

Another good trick if you're using big lumps of coal such as Supertherm is to also buy a bag of smaller stuff just for lighting up.

 

Fuel in bigger sized lumps takes longer to catch and really needs more heat to get going than the little stuff. Conversely because smaller coals burn more fiercely they won't always stay in, so start with those but then switch over to your normal brand once the fire is hot enough for the main fuel to ignite.

 

Edit: P.S. Not heard of Wildfire, where'd you get it from?

Edited December 7, 2012 by sociable_hermit

[dmr]

What do we think of Wildfire coal?

 

Im using it at the moment and seems very good but not alot of mentions on here.

 

Wildfire is very very good; on our stove (an old Stratford Range) it outperforms anything else we have tried.

It says on the bag that its only suitable for use on open fires so maybe that puts people off.

Its widespread on the K&A but much less common elsewhere.

 

...............Dave