Continuous Cruising/Mooring

[sueb]

How far do you want to go back Sue?

 

In the 1960s and 1970s there were very few moorings that were not BW towpath moorings.

 

And they certainly charged for them.

 

I have no idea if there was ever a time since nationalisation of the waterways when BTC / BW didn't charge for normal towpath moorings, but I rather doubt it?

I thought it was since we started boating that BW started selling the towpath off. Obviously I'm wrong.

[KenK]

A question

 

As CRT is now an independant charity can the trusts board make or amend rules as to how it manages the assets it owns, ie towpath, canal and infrastructure? If it can't does it need an act of parliament to effect a change or what is the process?

 

Rather than have lots of associations and interest groups who do not perhaps represent the majority of boaters why doesnt CRT frame a consultative questionaire around the issues it believes addressing - wider than just this thread I hope and poll all licensed boats to get a clear picture of the interest and concerns of the boating community.

 

This might at least help them frame so policy statements that have the backing of the majority and provide backing for any changes in legislation if they are needed.

 

This would also give clear guidance to our elected boater representatives.

 

According to the document sent with my licence renewal.

"British Waterways passed all of its responsibilities and powers to the Canal & River Trust. All previous arrangements for boat licensing and mooring remain unchanged".

I guess therefore there would have to be an ammendment by parliament if a substantial change was required, of course that does not stop them trying to alter their view of what the legislation means.

 

Ken

[mayalld]

Some ccers do not bend the rules anymore than someone living on a leisure mooring. so why doesn,t crt do something about that, perhaps i need to ask them just to see the answer

 

Because it is for CRT to enforce CRT rules, and for the Planning Authority to enforce Planning rules.

 

For the most part, living on a mooring that lacks planning permission for residential use isn't breaking any rule. That use is neither explicitly permitted nor explicitly forbidden.

 

BW inserted a sentence about planning permission in its rules, because it had encountered a number of cases of people living on moorings without PP who expected BW to fix things when enforcement action was taken. Their rules simply say that you must comply with planning conditions.

 

If there is no PP, and no enforcement, then you ARE obeying the rules.

[alan_fincher]

I thought it was since we started boating that BW started selling the towpath off. Obviously I'm wrong.

No, there were definitely paid for BW towpath moorings in the 1960s/1970s.

 

Mind you a quick squint at a 1974 Canal's book reminds me that the cost of an annual cruising licence for a 70 foot (plus) boat was just £30, so I'm guessing that the annual mooring fees from back then would also look fairly attractive now!

[bowten]

This is the way I see it,by the end of next year I will be paying almost £800 for an End of Garden Mooring plus my rent to the Landowner plus my License fee to CaRT.Locally there are several CCers/Cmers who obviously moor the towpath side,at the moment I do not wish to moor on the towpath for several reasons those being I have security,car parking and shore power.However this may change because I have no security of tenure as I don't own the land I moor against.I may well become a CCer/CMer in the future who knows.I don't particularly care if someone wishes to moor and live on the towpath as long as they are not causing a nuisance or obstructing my passage along the cut.What does p#ss me off is the deliberate overstaying on water points,visitor moorings,lock moorings and too close to bridge holes and blind bends.I don't phone the authorities I do something about it myself,they get asked to move.I don't care if they can't or won't pay for a mooring or they don't move that often,I just want to use my boat and have a decent community about me.I say live and let live and have less interference from the authorities.I don't want to go back living in a soulless town on a soulless street with all the bickering from the neighbours.

[Joshua]

Television 'reality' shows feed off the inherent intolerance in humans by simply bringing together people from very different 'worlds' (attitudes, education, privileges, etc. etc.) people who wouldn't by choice naturally mix in every day life.

 

Generally, people of like mind, gravitate together and occupy their own space, so wealthy merchant bankers don't often live in 2 bed semi's on a council estate or park attendants live in 6 bedroom mansions in leafy Surrey lanes. Artists would generally prefer to live in Cornish cottages than swanky city appartments. I spent the last 12 years in a self-made hermitage in rural France together with 2 million other English hermits! Each group tolerates the other by largely ignoring them!

 

The canals can not so easily be segregated, so normally incompatible people, have to share a small space and share limited resources; 'reality show' heaven!

 

Internet Forums make it even more colourful because it enables totally incompatible people to share the same debating floor and freely express their prejudices to one another. In real life they are unlikely to cross paths, if they do, very unlikely to begin a conversation about anything and should they be forced to, the 'conversation' would very likely end in some physical altercation before each went their separate way.

 

Some extremely prejudicial posts make me hang my head in despair but, by trying to make sense of some of these threads, my opinions about the issues have changed dramatically over time, experience suggests that education of this kind is a very effective way to fight intolerance, 'vive la CWDF'.

 

I try to remind myself that the people I share the canals with, all have different ideas about how they want to use those canals (some dramatically different from my own) and everyone has an equal right to be left in peace to try. We should all be defending that right.

 

There are some basic rules of what used to be called 'common decency and respect' and I am sure most people do their best to exercise these, life is too short to waste it worrying about the very small minority who don't.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Joshua

[Leonie]

I think I'm a little bit in love with you Joshua.

[sociable_hermit]

There are some basic rules of what used to be called 'common decency and respect' and I am sure most people do their best to exercise these, life is too short to waste it worrying about the very small minority who don't.

Ah, but that's central to the debate. Different people seem to have very different views as to what constitutes 'common decency and respect'. Often closely related with how they themselves operate!

[Jeanie920]

I've seen this crop up a few times in these regular cruiser bashing sessions and it makes me think I really do come from a different planet. Frankly I'd rather someone bend/break/trample all over the CC rule than claim a benefit that they don't really need in order to remain self sufficient. You are happy to fund someone's mooring fee out of my taxes but you won't share your towpath with them? What on earth. Carry on. I'll never understand.

 

 

I have no objection to sharing the towpath with anyone.

My reply was a suggestion as to what someone does when they are faced with losing their home because they cant afford a mooring.

And if they have to take their boat out of the water and move to land based accommodation it would cost us more

[johnmck]

Television 'reality' shows feed off the inherent intolerance in humans by simply bringing together people from very different 'worlds' (attitudes, education, privileges, etc. etc.) people who wouldn't by choice naturally mix in every day life.

 

Generally, people of like mind, gravitate together and occupy their own space, so wealthy merchant bankers don't often live in 2 bed semi's on a council estate or park attendants live in 6 bedroom mansions in leafy Surrey lanes. Artists would generally prefer to live in Cornish cottages than swanky city appartments. I spent the last 12 years in a self-made hermitage in rural France together with 2 million other English hermits! Each group tolerates the other by largely ignoring them!

 

The canals can not so easily be segregated, so normally incompatible people, have to share a small space and share limited resources; 'reality show' heaven!

 

Internet Forums make it even more colourful because it enables totally incompatible people to share the same debating floor and freely express their prejudices to one another. In real life they are unlikely to cross paths, if they do, very unlikely to begin a conversation about anything and should they be forced to, the 'conversation' would very likely end in some physical altercation before each went their separate way.

 

Some extremely prejudicial posts make me hang my head in despair but, by trying to make sense of some of these threads, my opinions about the issues have changed dramatically over time, experience suggests that education of this kind is a very effective way to fight intolerance, 'vive la CWDF'.

 

I try to remind myself that the people I share the canals with, all have different ideas about how they want to use those canals (some dramatically different from my own) and everyone has an equal right to be left in peace to try. We should all be defending that right.

 

There are some basic rules of what used to be called 'common decency and respect' and I am sure most people do their best to exercise these, life is too short to waste it worrying about the very small minority who don't.

 

Have a Greenie.

[tree monkey]

Some ccers do not bend the rules anymore than someone living on a leisure mooring. so why doesn,t crt do something about that, perhaps i need to ask them just to see the answer

 

so what will that achieve? I live on my boat on a leisure mooring, in what way is that a problem to you?

 

i have a job pay my income tax and NI and as it happens contribute to council tax at another property which is not mine and i gain no beneft from, well apart from helping a family member to stay in her house.

 

i keep my mooring tidy, pick litter and cut the grass nothing is left on the towpath, apart from my bike and log pile which i also keep tidy, the path is very wide so i also do not block the access.

 

It seems to me all you would achieve is to potentialy get me thrown off my mooring where i harm no one and turn me into a continuous moorer seem a little pointless to me.

 

i suppose it would give you something else to point at and shake your head whilst on the phone reporting yet another CMer to CaRT

[lesrollins]

so what will that achieve? I live on my boat on a leisure mooring, in what way is that a problem to you?

 

i have a job pay my income tax and NI and as it happens contribute to council tax at another property which is not mine and i gain no beneft from, well apart from helping a family member to stay in her house.

 

i keep my mooring tidy, pick litter and cut the grass nothing is left on the towpath, apart from my bike and log pile which i also keep tidy, the path is very wide so i also do not block the access.

 

It seems to me all you would achieve is to potentialy get me thrown off my mooring where i harm no one and turn me into a continuous moorer seem a little pointless to me.

 

i suppose it would give you something else to point at and shake your head whilst on the phone reporting yet another CMer to CaRT

 

I have no problems with someone like yourself I am making a point about people complaining about cc ers who are non compliant with the rules and regs and you have just admitted you to bend the rules to suit yourself.

 

I also work and pay tax and classed as disabled only having one leg but I have never taken anything out of the system.

 

Neither would I report anyone or anything that did not concern me unless it became a problem to me.

 

But I do wish people would put up or shut up instead of being towpath vigilanties I wonder how long they would last in a gypsy camp with there views on illegal living.

 

It appears that people with boats as toys must have to much money. keeping a house and a boat must be way out of reach for most people. So if people do decide to live full time on the canal for whatever reason and how ever they wish just let em be. A boy with a toy and a full time liveaboard will never be in the same class.

[Guest]

gawd Les you have a massive chip on your shoulder....

[lesrollins]

gawd Les you have a massive chip on your shoulder....

 

No chip on my shoulder old lad just sick of people complaining about the same old thing just like a non stop record.

[Tuscan]

No chip on my shoulder old lad just sick of people complaining about the same old thing just like a non stop record.

 

 

Indeed.............

[Guest]

No chip on my shoulder old lad just sick of people complaining about the same old thing just like a non stop record.

 

Really?...

 

A boy with a toy and a full time liveaboard will never be in the same class.

 

I'd say a massive one...so big it's obscuring your vision..

[jenlyn]

The divide gets ever wider, self destruction is imminent.

[Ange]

A boy with a toy and a full time liveaboard will never be in the same class.

 

Alienating vast swathes of the boating community with statements like that helps no one Les. There are a lot of "boys with a toy" who are doing the best they can to help find a fair and workable solution, Alan Fincher is a good example. There are also a lot of people passionate about boating who for one reason or another cannot live aboard full time. Many of them struggle to fund their "toys".

 

Generalisations like that are very unhelpful. I, for one, would never want to see the boating community split into them and us.

[Guest]

The divide gets ever wider, self destruction is imminent.

 

ain't that the truth,,,

[tree monkey]

Alienating vast swathes of the boating community with statements like that helps no one Les. There are a lot of "boys with a toy" who are doing the best they can to help find a fair and workable solution, Alan Fincher is a good example. There are also a lot of people passionate about boating who for one reason or another cannot live aboard full time. Many of them struggle to fund their "toys".

 

Generalisations like that are very unhelpful. I, for one, would never want to see the boating community split into them and us.

 

 

I vote ange for Prime Minister

[BlueStringPudding]

I, for one, would never want to see the boating community split into them and us.

 

[paddy r]

I vote ange for Prime Minister

 

 

I second that

[Ange]

I vote ange for Prime Minister

 

 

I second that

 

oo ello

 

Trouble is I'd have to be a politician first - can't see that somehow

[PhilR]

 

 

Trouble is I'd have to be a politician first - can't see that somehow

 

No, you are too honest for that Ange.

[KevMc]

oo ello

 

Trouble is I'd have to be a politician first - can't see that somehow

 

I think being a politician should disqualify a person from holding public office