Angling match pegged on lock moorings!

[Tony Brooks]

Let me introduce myself.

 

I am the President of Old Bank Angling Club, have been for the last 2 years and have been a member of said club since 1974, holding many positions of office.

 

In answer to Mr Riley and his "open" letter of complaint. Why did you not wait to get a written response to your letter instead of publishing for "ALL" to see?

 

On the date in question we did not hold a match on these canals nor did we plan to. The club in question was Mirfield Angling Club. We have an agreement with them that, if the river is unfishable, for whatever reason, they may use the canals.

 

You state, quote, "It seems that they were going to have the match on the river stretches but because the levels were high used the canal instead", you also state, quote, "On arriving at the Mirfield Flood lock the gates were shut". If the river was high and the flood gate shut didn't that tell you something? Should you have been travelling or moored in a safe haven until levels subsided?

 

The canals and their towpaths are open to all users and as such should be used sensibly. I do not condone the actions of irresponsible anglers nor do I accept that it is always anglers that are in the wrong. Were there visible signs warning anglers not to fish in this particular landing area? If not, why not? There are plenty of signs to indicate that Old Bank Angling Club has the fishing rights on these stretches. If these said signs have been removed, vandalised or whatever, whose responsibility is it to get them replaced?

 

As a responsible club we welcome comments that are constructive to better assist us in our endeavors to maintain peace and harmony with other users, BUT, I WILL NOT accept blanket abuse as has happened in this forum without first waiting for a reply.

 

I frequently am in contact with boaters on our canals and the vast majority are good natured with plenty of amusing banter. Then there is the odd one who makes a beeline for the towpath in the hope of disrupting a match that is in progress, as a minimum. I have had 2 keepnets completely shredded and the fish in them killed over the last 5 years. I fish for sport, not to kill, catch and release. Was that the thought of the morons who killed my catch? I think not.

 

As a boater you will pay a fee to use the canal, ie, licence, mooring fees and the like. Old Bank Angling Club also pays an annual fee to be able to fish these canals.

 

If you had had the decency to wait for a written response then I would not have had to reply this way and have to respond to this vitriol.

 

 

I have been thingking about this letter and wondering if it is worth the effort to reply to such a person. Seems to have the mindset of a typical lock landing fisherman.

 

 

First of all please Mr President get it into your head that probably the majority of boaters have been inconvenienced (to say the least) by people fishing in places where the regulations ban them. This had lead to injury to the boater or assault in some cases. By and large the majority put up with it but now and gain they have had enough. For you to imply that it is unreasonable that a largely boater's forum should not discuss your clubs conduct is arrogance beyond belief, as I said a typical fisherman. I will add that I have personally witnessed some foreign hire boaters being told they had to vacate a marked BW mooring by something like 5.30am so their mooring could be pegged for a fishing match. I was also assaulted this summer (in a minor way) by a fisherman fishing right by a no fishing sign on a lock landing when, after telling him I had to move the boat up (by rope) to accommodate two boats descending the lock and he refused to move his net.

 

I see that you try to blame another club but what I want to know is what were your bailiffs doing if you are lending your waters to another club. You rent the rights, you know the rules, it is up to your club to make sure they are obeyed on your waters.

 

The you try to deflect the blame onto BW/CART by asking if there were any no fishing signs there. This is irrelevant, your club knows the rules signs or not and it is up to your club to enforce them on your members AND on those clubs that fish your waters.

 

For your keepnets to have been "completely shredded" and the fish in the killed means that they must have been caught in the boat's prop. This would be very difficult to do because the propeller is about 3.5 ft away from the edge of the channel - not the bank, the channel - so it seem to me there is every possibility that you were fishing in an inconsiderate position or you were incredibly unlucky in having two incidents of emergency or inexperienced boaters. You may be correct that the odd individual boater takes the action you describe and it does not take an experienced boater much time to decide upon possible reasons but anglers do not help their cause when match fishing. I always TRY to keep to the centre and move at a modest speed (usually trying to move slowly enough not to swirl the keepnets about) but often I am requested to move towards the towpath because the fishermen are fishing under the far bank vegetation. Indeed some fishermen on here have requested that cation. AS has been already said a large sign at either end of the match indicated the preferred action would not go amiss. To be honest your words seem more likley to be gross exaggeration than the truth or a failure to secure your net in a suitable fashion.

 

I am pleased that you bring fees into the discussion because I know the fees I paid to an RDAA affiliated club so I know that your individual members only pay a fraction of the fees paid by individual boaters so on that basis you have little to complain about.

 

Vitriol? Can't stand boaters speaking from their experiences more likely. There was no vitriol in the original post because it was a pretty much factual account of what took place. If any one from the main protagonist has displayed a lack of decency it is you who has tried to shift the blame to others for your own club's acts and omissions and the tried to justify your blatant disregard for the rules by citing irrelevant and exaggerated "justifications". If you do not like boaters speaking from experience then it is in your clubs power to prevent the boaters forming the views they do - except that would be expensive and far too difficult for you.

 

Apologies to our forum members - this chap has really got my goat, arrogant git.

[dor]

Somehow I feel we won't be hearing from Mr President again. Especially as his first comment,. about writing to the club, has been blown out of the water.

[cl@rkey]

I think your analogy falls down because the presence of your solitary drinker has no bearing on you whether he is there or not. However if you make an effort for the angler's benefit - slowing down and moving to a better place to pass him, then a nod of acknowledgement is the least to expect. Now to go back to your analogy, if you were sitting in his favourite chair and when he came in you got up and moved so he could sit there you would expect at least a nod of thanks wouldn't you?

 

Nobody's suggesting that the anglers should be expected to start up a conversation, just the basic politeness of acknowledging someone has done you a favour.

Hi dor,

 

They should acknowledge boaters when being done a favour. If many don't, I'm at a loss. Fishermen are from a large cross-section of society, not some weird little niche that haven't been exposed to social conventions.

 

I can only apologise on behalf of all fishermen. I find it a peaceful, relaxing sport. I'd personally hate to think it was causing any ill feeling among other waterway users.

[Jim Riley]

update from OP....

had a reply from CaRT

"Jim, thanks for your email. I will now write to the Old Bank Angling Club, who rent the fishing rights in this area, and bring to their attention, or rather remind them in strong terms, of the rule that no fishing should take place within 25 metres of a lock

 

 

 

John W Ellis

 

National Fisheries and Angling Manager"

 

 

I have informed him that it was Mirfield Anglers.........

 

edit to say I did get this thru a few days ago, before Ishticar's post, just didn't have time to mention it in my reply to Ishticar.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Jim Riley

[Grace and Favour]

I have been thingking about this letter and wondering if it is worth the effort to reply to such a person. Seems to have the mindset of a typical lock landing fisherman.our club to make sure they are obeyed on your waters.

 

<<Snippity>>

 

Apologies to our forum members - this chap has really got my goat, arrogant git.

 

Hear hear!

 

Well said Tony ✔

[ditchcrawler]

Are you seriously telling us that as president of an angling club that leases fishing rights, you are unaware that you lock landings are off limits for fishing, and that you need signs at each lock landing to tell you this?

 

If this is the case, and you haven't taken the trouble to discover what is and is not OK, then why on earth do you imagine that boaters should take the trouble to find out what they should and should not do?

 

So, on that basis, unless I see official CRT signs directing me to slow down past anglers, I won't bother.

Maybe this is what is needed http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/features/guidelines-for-fishing-along-canals-and-rivers see the last 3 entries

[Ishticar]

Nice to see I got my point across

 

Mr Riley, The reason you didn't get a reply until now is that the letter didn't arrive until last Wednesday. I was going to write to you to explain that this stretch was pegged by another club and, after looking on Google to research codes of conduct, I came across your post so I decided to look.

 

The vitriol in question came from the morons who decided to hijack the comments you made and make it personal. They need to grow up.

End of discussion.

 

Afterthought, If you (Mr Jim Riley) would like to contact me at the address you wrote to I would be more than happy to discuss issues with you on a one to one basis

Edited October 21, 2012 by Ishticar

[mark99]

The vitriol in question came from the morons who decided to hijack the comments you made and make it personal. They need to grow up.

End of discussion.

 

 

Grow up? you will be lucky.

 

I've been on here long enough to observe that there is a bit of a theme on here by some who make sweeping generalisations if they receive a "negative experience" that does not "accord" with their expectations. They do not realise that they get what they give out. Nor realise that they do not actually own the right to dictate their views or values to others. I've encountered <my perception> pratts of boaters and anglers but do not judge the rest by the actions of individuals.

 

Philosophically speaking, if you decide <one member group> are all <insert derogatory term> it's laughable in it's naivity at best, and pathetic at worst. Think about it.

 

 

Mark

Edited October 21, 2012 by mark99

[wannabe]

Grow up? you will be lucky.

 

I've been on here long enough to observe that there is a bit of a theme on here by some who make sweeping generalisations if they receive a "negative experience" that does not "accord" with their expectations. They do not realise that they get what they give out. Nor realise that they do not actually own the right to dictate their views or values to others. I've encountered <my perception> pratts of boaters and anglers but do not judge the rest by the actions of individuals.

 

Philosophically speaking, if you decide <one member group> are all <insert derogatory term> it's laughable in it's naivity at best, and pathetic at worst. Think about it.

 

 

Mark

[Tuscan]

 

 

As I think I am now a moron am I allowed to call "El Presedente" a pleb

[wannabe]

As I think I am now a moron am I allowed to call "El Presedente" a pleb

As it is your opinion on what you are, I suppose, you can call whoever you want, whatever you want.

Depending on what meaning you inferred, pleb isn't always such a derogatory term

[Maffi]

snip Were there visible signs warning anglers not to fish in this particular landing area? If not, why not?

 

 

Every fisherman I have ever seen on a lock landing was right in the middle so it was hard to get in at either end. All a fisherman has to do is ask himself "If a 70 foot boat comes here to use the lock will I be in his way" It is a bit of a give away. At every lock I have ever seen there are big gates, long beams, (upto about 12 foot long and a foot square) a good edge and 'mooring' bollards. It is really not difficult to work it out. So even a fisherman claiming to be dyslexic can 'read' the signs with out diffculty.

 

I have been thingking about this letter and wondering if it is worth the effort to reply to such a person. Seems to have the mindset of a typical lock landing fisherman.

 

 

First of all please Mr President get it into your head that probably the majority of boaters have been inconvenienced (to say the least) by people fishing in places where the regulations ban them. This had lead to injury to the boater or assault in some cases. By and large the majority put up with it but now and gain they have had enough. For you to imply that it is unreasonable that a largely boater's forum should not discuss your clubs conduct is arrogance beyond belief, as I said a typical fisherman. I will add that I have personally witnessed some foreign hire boaters being told they had to vacate a marked BW mooring by something like 5.30am so their mooring could be pegged for a fishing match. I was also assaulted this summer (in a minor way) by a fisherman fishing right by a no fishing sign on a lock landing when, after telling him I had to move the boat up (by rope) to accommodate two boats descending the lock and he refused to move his net.

 

I see that you try to blame another club but what I want to know is what were your bailiffs doing if you are lending your waters to another club. You rent the rights, you know the rules, it is up to your club to make sure they are obeyed on your waters.

 

The you try to deflect the blame onto BW/CART by asking if there were any no fishing signs there. This is irrelevant, your club knows the rules signs or not and it is up to your club to enforce them on your members AND on those clubs that fish your waters.

 

For your keepnets to have been "completely shredded" and the fish in the killed means that they must have been caught in the boat's prop. This would be very difficult to do because the propeller is about 3.5 ft away from the edge of the channel - not the bank, the channel - so it seem to me there is every possibility that you were fishing in an inconsiderate position or you were incredibly unlucky in having two incidents of emergency or inexperienced boaters. You may be correct that the odd individual boater takes the action you describe and it does not take an experienced boater much time to decide upon possible reasons but anglers do not help their cause when match fishing. I always TRY to keep to the centre and move at a modest speed (usually trying to move slowly enough not to swirl the keepnets about) but often I am requested to move towards the towpath because the fishermen are fishing under the far bank vegetation. Indeed some fishermen on here have requested that cation. AS has been already said a large sign at either end of the match indicated the preferred action would not go amiss. To be honest your words seem more likley to be gross exaggeration than the truth or a failure to secure your net in a suitable fashion.

 

I am pleased that you bring fees into the discussion because I know the fees I paid to an RDAA affiliated club so I know that your individual members only pay a fraction of the fees paid by individual boaters so on that basis you have little to complain about.

 

Vitriol? Can't stand boaters speaking from their experiences more likely. There was no vitriol in the original post because it was a pretty much factual account of what took place. If any one from the main protagonist has displayed a lack of decency it is you who has tried to shift the blame to others for your own club's acts and omissions and the tried to justify your blatant disregard for the rules by citing irrelevant and exaggerated "justifications". If you do not like boaters speaking from experience then it is in your clubs power to prevent the boaters forming the views they do - except that would be expensive and far too difficult for you.

 

Apologies to our forum members - this chap has really got my goat, arrogant git.

 

 

Wot 'e sed!

[Wanted]

I hate being told by fisher people that I need to tolerate every user of the system. I will never tolerate anyone who considers an activity that harms an animal for no reason other than sport. You can sit where you want, but don't expect me to smile and wave at you.

 

I have no issues with people who eat what that catch.

[Maffi]

snip I have no issues with people who eat what that catch.

 

 

Other than its illegal

It is an offence to take any fish away from a canal or reservoir under the 1968 Theft Act and Environment Agency Byelaws. The reporter should telephone the Environment Agency 0800 807060 immediately.

[Wanted]

Other than its illegal

It is an offence to take any fish away from a canal or reservoir under the 1968 Theft Act and Environment Agency Byelaws. The reporter should telephone the Environment Agency 0800 807060 immediately.

 

Quite right, I didn't make my post clear, I should have expressed some river and sea fishing as a form of food gathering.

 

Having had my hands in my weed atch a few times I can guess what a canal fish tastes like....

[Tony Brooks]

Nice to see I got my point across

 

Mr Riley, The reason you didn't get a reply until now is that the letter didn't arrive until last Wednesday. I was going to write to you to explain that this stretch was pegged by another club and, after looking on Google to research codes of conduct, I came across your post so I decided to look.

 

The vitriol in question came from the morons who decided to hijack the comments you made and make it personal. They need to grow up.

End of discussion.

 

Afterthought, If you (Mr Jim Riley) would like to contact me at the address you wrote to I would be more than happy to discuss issues with you on a one to one basis

 

 

However I note that you have declined to explain why your bailiffs did not ensure the rules were followed, why you appear to need signs to tell you what the rules you lease the waters under already tell you and why you did not ensure a club using your waters knew and obeyed the rules. You also do not address the issue of the angler identifying your club as the one that was holding the match - who is the one lying I ask myself.

 

No it is not the end of the discussion and you can not end it. By and large you have made the situation worse and given those who want further examples of unacceptable angler behaviour more ammunition. If you want to TRY to end it may I suggest that you come back with a contrite apology for the incident and for your attempts to shift the blame from your club.

 

Just remember that probably the majority of boaters are nature lovers and also tend to be pretty tolerant but each incident like the mis-pegging and your defence for it makes it more and more likey that you anglers act as recruiting sergeant for the ban blood sports brigade and bring the day your hobby gets banned closer.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[RLWP]

[Off-topic]

 

I can't see many people experiencing this, bow hauling a boat past fishermen ensures at least some interaction.

 

Starting with open swearing, then muttered swearing, and ending with cheery waves and wishes of good luck

 

It depends how you approach people

 

Richard

 

[/off-topic]

[Tony Brooks]

[Off-topic]

 

I can't see many people experiencing this, bow hauling a boat past fishermen ensures at least some interaction.

 

Starting with open swearing, then muttered swearing, and ending with cheery waves and wishes of good luck

 

It depends how you approach people

 

Richard

 

[/off-topic]

 

 

Not in my case it didn't. It resulted in him trying to shove me into the Kennet except he got himself on the river side of my line. Having stopped short of him I then noticed two boats descending the lock so politely explained that I had to move up the lock landing to allow both boats to pick up their crew. He did not move his net when I started to pull the boat forward but did attack me.

 

In my view these people are best ignored if possible. All to often they seem somewhat retarded in the reading and understanding department.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 

 

Just remember that probably the majority of boaters are nature lovers.....

 

Oh dear, that gives me some awful images of boaters without clothes

 

I reckon if I were a fisherman, I would be a tad pissed off at times with cheery boaters waving and grinning a good morning. "Leave me be and let me concentrate" I would think. "I was up at stupid o'clock this morning to drive down here, and I got this shitty peg" "no, I'm not in the mood for fatuous greetings"

But I don't fish, I boat. And I keep out of the way of the fisher folk. I keep out of their swim. And away from their net. If they want to say hello, fine. If not fine.

 

If they're in my way I tell I them I need the space and they move.

 

I met a couple of chain smoking, special brew drinking youths in deck chairs right by the first mooring post at a lock the other week. A short landing area. "Excuse me, I'm gonna need to tie up there" I said. " no worries " they said. Whilst the lock was filling I went and had a smoke and a chat with them. They didn't offer me a beer mind! (Mean bastards)

 

Life can be simple. So please tell me how to get a fight.

Does one begin with " you can't fish there!" Or " can't you read! You pleb"

 

The OP missed the chance at the start. As soon as you thought you were being assaulted , even in a minor way, you should have smashed their face in. And then stamped on the maggots for good effect! If your gonna pick a fight do it right and not bleet on about it.

 

Oh, and who needs an extra 150 ft before a lock landing?

 

 

they seem somewhat retarded in the reading and understanding department.

 

So that's the way to get a fight. Easy really Just simple rudeness thanks for the top tip

Edited October 23, 2012 by Goliath

[Mick and Maggie]

Sometimes it pays to use a bit of psychology with fishermen on lock landings. Well if fish can fool them its easy for us.

 

The first mate is very adept at warning them that "Take care its his first time out driving the boat. He's not very good and he's broken someones rod already today". No one ever says a word and they keep their tackle well clear. I make it look like I am struggling with the boat, which comes naturally to me anyway.

 

The second one is only used if the odd ones do get abusive, a trick last used at Thorne lock. She says "he will put anti-fish liquid into the canal, it stops them from feeding for days!" I then make a point of splashing some anti-fishing liquid (a bit of water mixed with washing up liquid out of a squeezy bottle just to create a few surface bubbles) into the canal just behind the boat. Then I pretend to mix it into the canal water with the propeller as we pull away. It's the look on their faces that makes my day.

 

Mick

[Boat&Bikes]

I hate being told by fisher people that I need to tolerate every user of the system. I will never tolerate anyone who considers an activity that harms an animal for no reason other than sport. You can sit where you want, but don't expect me to smile and wave at you.

 

I have no issues with people who eat what that catch.

 

 

Many fish wouldnt be in our waters if there were no fishermen.I also find such views amusing from a man who seems to like Mark Twain...

 

 

Ian.

[Wanted]

Many fish wouldnt be in our waters if there were no fishermen.I also find such views amusing from a man who seems to like Mark Twain...

 

 

Ian.

 

Tenuous Mark Twain reference which I shall ignor.

 

The other bit is interesting. So, in order for us to enjoy having fish in our man made system, we have to remove them from time to time with a hook?

 

I am pretty sure that we could introduce fish and let em get on with it if we wanted to.

 

I'd have more respect if a fisher person just said that they did it because they enjoy it as a sport. I don't except that people fish because they care about the amount of fish in a canal. Surely that want fish so that they can catch them?

[Boat&Bikes]

Tenuous Mark Twain reference which I shall ignor.

 

The other bit is interesting. So, in order for us to enjoy having fish in our man made system, we have to remove them from time to time with a hook?

 

I am pretty sure that we could introduce fish and let em get on with it if we wanted to.

 

I'd have more respect if a fisher person just said that they did it because they enjoy it as a sport. I don't except that people fish because they care about the amount of fish in a canal. Surely that want fish so that they can catch them?

 

 

The point i was trying to make is that canals,lakes etc are stocked often by fishing clubs etc.If nobody fished who would stock them?

 

Ian.

[Wanted]

Why would we need too?

[Boat&Bikes]

So we can catch fish .