Lock etiquette

[Nickhlx]

Indeed. I read your post as suggesting that when going down hill and leaving the lock you close the gates and fill it. Or vice versa.

 

 

 

So we probably misread each others. Going up or down a lock, my view is you leave the gates closed and the paddles down and the water level in the lock the same as when you left it, either full or empty.

 

 

 

Have we now confirmed we know what we are talking about or have I just confused myself?

 

Have we now confirmed we know what we are talking about ..... probably....

 

have I just confused myself? ....... don't know

 

I am sure we have each got more useful things to worry about though

 

Nick

[bizzard]

But leaving a lock empty and closing the gates is likely to save water. Being considerate to the next user is not part of the equation for me unless I know that somebody is going to enter the lock wehave just vacated within 10 mins. Which is vital is saving water and that for me takes priority over convenience.

If you had seen the selfish boaters coming up the Buckby flight last week. Doing the locks singly instead of sharing, and with 10 minute intervals between all three, despite a BW notice asking people to wait UP TO ONE HOUR for another boat to pair with, then the consequences are that unless people change their methods to conserve water then the Leicester Line, when it closes after the Easter hols, will not be reopening for a bit and other flights may follow suit.

Sorry, this rant is not aimed at you personally. I am sure you would not ignore the instructions. But some large bottoms do

 

 

Ok Buzz.

Crappy touch keyboard on ipod. If I saw a boar waiting I would shoot it and make bacon!

 

Sorry Bizz. You notice the spolling misteks are on adjacent keys on a qwerty board. Big fingures small bittons

 

It muzt sound like Arthur Bulstrode the gendarm on Hello Hello.

Al my kets have biscuiy crumbd nder then and keap crubching.

[Tiny]

The lower part of the GU gates are left open.

Sue

We do this on GU river locks but not on navigation sections where no river enters between locks.

[Steilsteven]

I'll probably been taken out and shot for this but I've yet to be convinced that ( apart from overnight or when there's very little traffic ) closing all gates on a leaky lock saves much water, if any.

If you've just gone through a lock uphill and the bottom gates are leaking it will drain anyway and the chances are that the next boat will be travelling the same way and will be draining the water that you have supposedly saved.

Alternatively, if the next boat is travelling in the opposite direction, and hasn't got there yet, some water will need to be added to make level again.

 

The same applies if the top gates are leaking and you've just gone through it downhill, you shut all gates and it slowly fills itself up. Water will only be saved if the next boat through is travelling in the same direction as you but it hasn't been saved really because it was only used for traffic in one direction. If the next boat was coming from the opposite direction, the water that had leaked into the lock would need to be drained to allow passage.Even if the boater waited for a boat to arrive from the opposite direction no water would be saved by letting them pass down first.

 

Waiting more than 20 minutes for another boat to share the lock with you won't save water on a leaking lock either if you're going uphill and the top gates are leaking,as it won't if you're going downhill and the bottom gates are leaking. The same amount of water will have been lost as if the gates had been left open.

 

The only effective way to save water is to fix the leaks.

 

Keith

[Tuscan]

I agree with you Keith, but that's a bit like the hose pipe ban and getting water companies to fix leaky pipes, I doubt funds will ever be prioritised to fix leaks easier to get us to comply, which I do as I always hope it makes a difference.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Tuscan

[Tam & Di]

 

 

The only effective way to save water is to fix the leaks.

 

Keith

 

I agree absolutely. We only closed gates behind us if those at the other end were leaking badly. Going downhill this would be obvious; going uphill involved walking to the bottom gates and looking over to see any leakage. Going downhill this would then mean the lock would slowly fill after we left it, and going uphill it would slowly empty. This would possibly save water if no other boat appeared for some considerable time - overnight perhaps. Even then it would depend upon which direction the next boat was travelling as to whether there was any saving or not, for the reasoning Keith sets out.

 

His final point about fixing leaks is spot on.

[magpie patrick]

Tam, I seem to recall you making such a point in an article in Waterways World, opening a paddle to release a few inches of water that someone had saved. When single handing I tend to leave exit gates open especially in flights. If I'm likely to be the last boat through that day I will even walk back up the flight and close them all. But closing gates only saves water IF more than one lockful would have been lost before the lock was used again.

 

Even rivers are running short at the moment though: I wish all this rain on our conservatory roof (my office is in the conservatory) were falling over a canal reservoir. It is however, falling into the catchment of the Bristol Avon, and might help the Kennet and Avon keep going.

 

As an aside, some years ago (1995?) I met my Dad so we could go to a football match in Watford (the game was at Borehamwood) and we had our lunch by Cassiobury Park Lock. It was February and the canal was very quiet. Out of idle curiosity I did what I nearly always do and looked into the chamber, and two swans were idly but obviously somewhat worriedly paddling back and forth. The lock had about six inches of water in it, so I couldn't open the bottom gates, but was able with my bare hands to force one bottom paddle open a crack. I went back and finished my lunch.

 

When I had eaten up, the level had made and I could push the gate open, the swans needed no second invitation and both were out with the gate less than 18 inches open. I guess they'd gone to sleep in a full lock the night before. Not a reason to change policy, but a tale of what can happen...

 

edit because LOSING gates will waste water for sure...

Edited April 9, 2012 by magpie patrick

[nora]

hello, just my thoughts on the shareing locks thing, just been up the Caldon and back, this weekend, and dont think I saw one boat under 40 ft.so rather difficult to share a lock, but years ago it was easier to share when a lot of the boats were GRP,s usually under 30 ft, never saw a lock shared in 3 days, ps, we always shut gates, thats how we were taught. Nora.

[onionbargee]

Not this old chessnut again?

 

ye Olde boatmen found the best way of working locks, gates left open, and paddles left up, nowdays we can drop the paddles, but if you start closing gates, in the long term 50% of the time your shutting them in other boaters faces, and you will never find a lock open for you. Total ameteurish way to do things.

 

I don't accept BW telling me to close gates, unless they have a specific maintanance problem, they just say this to try to get out of fixing the leaks. Special measures may be necessary in a drought.

 

 

Gates were never meant to be closed, and never will be. ( by me )

[sociable_hermit]

Yeah, it's only been a standing instruction from BW since the 1970s, so I guess some of the slower-witted boaters probably haven't got used to it yet. I know everything happens slower in this particular parallel universe.

 

Personally I like the present system as it balances out the work more evenly. Yes I understand the arguement that in overall terms closing the gates takes more work, but at least it's consistent. Much as I'd love to get a whole flight in my favour with the gates open, the benefits of this do not in any way equal the disbenefits of hitting a flight with everything set against me, including the gates at the other end being left open.

 

Like Alan, I always close the gates on the lower GU. If others want to work to some sort of unofficial local arrangement, that's up to them. Just don't expect me to be pleased.

[ditchcrawler]

I would rather leave gates open, even if all the flight was against me, but until that becomes the rule I will continue to close up, just like I follow the rule on speed an mooring.

[Ray]

I think there is a difference in "following boat consideration" between broad and narrow canals.

 

For many (all?) of the working boatmen a narrow lock doesn't represent too much of a problem if you arrive and the lock is against you with the far end gates open. Walking to the far end, closing one of the presumed pair of open gates and then jumping across to the other gate to close that is, as they say, all in a day's work. I'd work the same way but SWMBO doesn't feel confident in gate jumping and would retrace her steps to the closed up end of the lock, cross over on the fully closed gate(s) and walk down the other side of the chamber to close the remaining open gate.

 

On the GU and other broad canals following a boat that is leaving both gates open is a real slow down, probably adding several minutes to the time taken for each lock worked so leaving all gates shut makes a considerable difference to following boats at the expense of slightly slowing boats heading towards you who will only ever encounter your method of lock working once in their trip - the person following you is doing just that and remembers you at each lock they come to!

 

Unless someone regularly uses (or witnesses) a lock they will never know how a lock behaves with regard to leaks. Some leaks are clearly visible but others may be in the lock wall or below the water line and not so clearly visible.

 

I am a member of "the close all gates" brigade and think nothing less of turning up at a lock that is in my favour with all gates closed. It is a bonus if the gates are open. However, I curse like hell if the lock is against me and the far end gates are open.

[Tam & Di]

Yeah, it's only been a standing instruction from BW since the 1970s, so I guess some of the slower-witted boaters probably haven't got used to it yet. I know everything happens slower in this particular parallel universe.

 

Personally I like the present system as it balances out the work more evenly. Yes I understand the arguement that in overall terms closing the gates takes more work, but at least it's consistent. Much as I'd love to get a whole flight in my favour with the gates open, the benefits of this do not in any way equal the disbenefits of hitting a flight with everything set against me, including the gates at the other end being left open.

 

Like Alan, I always close the gates on the lower GU. If others want to work to some sort of unofficial local arrangement, that's up to them. Just don't expect me to be pleased.

 

(clicked on "greenie" instead of "reply", but you can keep it - it's a gift )

 

It not only that closing gates behind you is more work, it is also very difficult if you are on your own or if it is windy or if lots of other things. The BW "Thou shallt shut the door behind you" came in once pleasure boating started becoming popular and it was easier to have newcomers shut the gates regardless of whether the other ones were leaking or not. It meant they did not have to think or make judgements.

 

The contra argument has been made often enough, but with gates left open when you leave a lock it means that you find some 50% of locks in your favour and do not need to pfaff around stopping to get every lock ready. Admittedly the other 50% are gainst you, but you are then off the boat anyway and it is no great deal - even less if you have a lock wheeler.

 

Also paddles would be left up. It is part of taking a boat through a lock that you operate the paddles, but mostly nowadays you are relying on the boater before you to have closed them 100% - how many people do actually check that the paddle gear at the entry end of the lock are properly down, rather than left up a couple of notches and leaking all that precious water? If it is your job to drop them then you make sure of it for yourself.

 

Well, I'm not boating in the UK now, but it still niggles that things have changed to accommodate the lowest common denominator.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Tam & Di

[Morat]

Not this old chessnut again?

 

ye Olde boatmen found the best way of working locks, gates left open, and paddles left up, nowdays we can drop the paddles, but if you start closing gates, in the long term 50% of the time your shutting them in other boaters faces, and you will never find a lock open for you. Total ameteurish way to do things.

 

I don't accept BW telling me to close gates, unless they have a specific maintanance problem, they just say this to try to get out of fixing the leaks. Special measures may be necessary in a drought.

 

 

Gates were never meant to be closed, and never will be. ( by me )

 

Well, if you know better I guess you'll continue to be the only one in step

[matty40s]

Well, if you know better I guess you'll continue to be the only one in step

 

In previous years, I have always left a single gate open in double locks when leaving a lock. I was taught this method and put it into practice.

There seemed to be a couple of reasons,

1/shutting one gate almost invariably means the other one opens - especially when windy

2/it was 50/50 that someone would be coming the other way soon

3/as single hander, it was a pleasure to see an open gate when approaching a lock.

wide locks this year, I have attempted to close both gates, but 1 has applied in most occasions.

 

This year, I have now returned to narrow locksfor a while, and even though every bywash on the Trent&Mersey and Staffs&Worcs has been flowing like a river, I have religeously closed the gates when leaving. This ispartly because of the water situation, and partly because it is so easy to do in narrow locks.

Edited April 12, 2012 by matty40s

[Machpoint005]

In previous years, I have always left a single gate open in double locks when leaving a lock. I was taught this method and put it into practice.There seemed to be a couple of reasons, 1/shutting one gate almost invariably means the other one opens - especially when windy 2/it was 50/50 that someone would be coming the other way soon 3/as single hander, it was a pleasure to see an open gate when approaching a lock.wide locks this year, I have attempted to close both gates, but 1 has applied in most occasions. This year, I have now returned to narrow locksfor a while, and even though every bywash on the Trent&Mersey and Staffs&Worcs has been flowing like a river, I have religeously closed the gates when leaving. This ispartly because of the water situation, and partly because it is so easy to do in narrow locks.

This all makes a lot of sense: as in so many things, rules are for general guidance but can be bent if the occasion demands.

 

However, a lot of this debate, it strikes me, is about getting through locks as rapidly as possible. There may be some boaters who are determined to do their 40 lock-miles in a ten-hour day, in order to keep to their self-imposed schedule, but there are those of us who use the canals to relax and escape from the rat race and the inevitable progress of time. I'm sure this sometimes infuriates people who are trying to get somewhere in a hurry, but really, if you are in a hurry, why travel by canal? Other forms of transport are available (railways, roads ...) and it is an inescapable fact that even walking is faster than cruising on our canal network.

 

Long may it so continue. And if you happen to be following me on the water, I might even let you through!

[WJM]

Machpoint: The point is good, but not entirely valid. Sometimes there will be an urgency to reach a popular town or a favourite pub or a special mooring. Narrowboating is a form of travel after-all. I hate when a schedule goes wrong and I end up moored up in the middle of nowhere. I do tend to push quite hard when travelling but my experience of those who want to take it easy has been entirely positive - allowing me to go past them etc.

[sociable_hermit]

(clicked on "greenie" instead of "reply", but you can keep it - it's a gift )

 

It not only that closing gates behind you is more work, it is also very difficult if you are on your own

 

The contra argument has been made often enough, but with gates left open when you leave a lock it means that you find some 50% of locks in your favour and do not need to pfaff around stopping to get every lock ready. Admittedly the other 50% are gainst you, but you are then off the boat anyway and it is no great deal - even less if you have a lock wheeler.

 

 

Sorry, I just don't agree with you here.

 

When I'm single-manning I'd rather tie up and then deal solely with that end of the lock before motoring in. It's quicker and less effort and somehow more of a natural, flowing process than having to firstly close the gates at the other end, which involves going beyond where I should need to be and then doubling back. I like to work through locks in an efficient, linear fashion!

 

Closing gates behind me is no problem as I just hold the boat in the mouth of the lock, or let the boat motor out slowly, shut the gate and get on it as it goes past. It doesn't actually add anything to the time taken in overall terms if I do the latter.

[Minos]

We do a lot of boating on the Yorkshire rivers which have electric locks, and they won't let you have your key back until all the gates and sluices are closed.

 

As a result of this, my default assumption is that everything should be left closed unless explicit local instructions require otherwise. If it's about personal inconvenience versus the system-wide need to save water, then I have to say it's a bit of a no-brainer.

 

It's not because I assume that what is right for Yorkshire is right for everywhere - it's just habit.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Minos

[Tam & Di]

Sorry, I just don't agree with you here.

When I'm single-manning I'd rather tie up and then deal solely with that end of the lock before motoring in. It's quicker and less effort and somehow more of a natural, flowing process than having to firstly close the gates at the other end, which involves going beyond where I should need to be and then doubling back. I like to work through locks in an efficient, linear fashion!

 

Closing gates behind me is no problem as I just hold the boat in the mouth of the lock, or let the boat motor out slowly, shut the gate and get on it as it goes past. It doesn't actually add anything to the time taken in overall terms if I do the latter.

 

But you have to do that at every lock rather than about half of them. It just cannot be quicker over all. As far as shutting gates behind you, I assume you're not talking about wide locks, nor have you ever misjudged and had the boat go on without you on board or blown across to the opposite side so you can't get on or have to pfaff about to get it back into the channel.

 

I don't really care one way or another about what suits you, but I really cannot reconcile your method with the natural flowing process or an efficient linear fashion that you describe.

 

When we started commercial boating the best bit of advice was from a born and bred boatman (Tom Humphries) who told us "Go steady but keeep a-going". For us it is not about racing, but it is about being really efficient, and I'm afraid there is no way you can convince me that your method is the most efficient. The goal at each lock is to get your boat though as quickly and as effortlessly as possible (well, it is for me). Efficiency is largely about looking at the situation and acting accordingly - not about having a rigid pattern that is carried out regardless.

 

The argument that the modern pleasure boater is there to saunter along enjoying the scenery is a different point altogether. Some people enjoy canals for the wildlife, some for the pubs, some for the peace and quiet, some for the ability to learn to boat as skillfully as they can. No one reason is better than another - they are all valid, and yours is yours and mine is mine.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Tam & Di

[onionbargee]

The closer's have been duped by BW, closing was an emergency measure when the system was derilict and loosing water, now it's not, even BW will tell you that, the leave opener's are just continuing a hundred years of normal boating practice now the locks are in good repair.

 

 

personally i spend so much time relaxing some times i like a good long run and work the locks quickly and properly when i get to them, after all most boating time is standing on a counter whistling dixie.

[Auntyfab]

But leaving a lock empty and closing the gates is likely to save water. Being considerate to the next user is not part of the equation for me unless I know that somebody is going to enter the lock wehave just vacated within 10 mins. Which is vital is saving water and that for me takes priority over convenience.

If you had seen the selfish boaters coming up the Buckby flight last week. Doing the locks singly instead of sharing, and with 10 minute intervals between all three, despite a BW notice asking people to wait UP TO ONE HOUR for another boat to pair with, then the consequences are that unless people change their methods to conserve water then the Leicester Line, when it closes after the Easter hols, will not be reopening for a bit and other flights may follow suit.

Sorry, this rant is not aimed at you personally. I am sure you would not ignore the instructions. But some large bottoms do

 

 

Ok Buzz.

Crappy touch keyboard on ipod. If I saw a boar waiting I would shoot it and make bacon!

 

Sorry Bizz. You notice the spolling misteks are on adjacent keys on a qwerty board. Big fingures small bittons

 

It muzt sound like Arthur Bulstrode the gendarm on Hello Hello.

 

Hi when I was on the Stort (left last year) there were pigs at Parndon Mill lock - and they made the best bacon I have ever tasted.