Have I bought a Lemon?!

[onionbargee]

There is nothing wrong with the ballasting of this boat, with the water tank full it will be perfect, your comparing your counter to others which are mostly too high out of the water, a few inches below means the prop will "bite" well in the water, in fact the deeper the better, until ploughing the bottom becomes a problem, which modern shallow draft narrowboats don't do.

[Chertsey]

If the skin fitting is for emptying the shower, then presumably there is a sump containing some kind of pump attached to it.

 

If water is getting in under the floor, rather than into the shower tray, then it implies that there is a leak between the sump (which might be the shower tray itself of course if the pump is a Gulper) and the skin fitting. This being the case, is it not more likely that water found under the floor has come from the shower, rather than in through the skin fitting? Or could it even be that the skin fitting is fine but the shower is leaking?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Chertsey

[sharpness]

This being the case, is it not more likely that water found under the floor has come from the shower, rather than in through the skin fitting? Or could it even be that the skin fitting is fine but the shower is leaking?

Sounds quite possible

Did the water pumped out smell soapy or was it cloudy?

 

Steve

[Ally]

personally I think the main concern is to get your hull fittings (outlets) high enough above the water line...or the plumbing for them...that you don't need to be concerned about water ingress, having checked that those are or are not the points at which you are getting water in....is it soapy or is it canal water??

Filling the water tank at the front will help some....but not as a complete balance, as weighting the bow will not just automatically lift the stern, the whole boat will drop slightly with the weight, with some evening out...perhaps not as much as imagined though.

[Richard10002]

A relatively simple solution to the shower fitting would be to loop the drain tube above the exit hole by, say, 7 inches. Hopefully, you can get at it behind the shower cubicle and fittings.

 

I say "relatively" as the alternative is to make a new exit hole with a new fitting, and re route the drain to it. You would also have to fill the old hole. With this alternative, you still need to get behind the shower etc..

[cheshire~rose]

I have seen our boat look very similar to that, when the diesel tank was full and the water tank was very low. I am always amazed that when we refill the water tank it brings the stern up - maybe only an inch but it visibly makes such a difference.

 

Also - do you have a pump out? if so where is the waste tank? if it requires a pump out that could make a big difference. It does on our boat although it does tend to take on a list when that is the case.

[magpie patrick]

 

 

 

It may just be the design of the boat, but I haven't often seen the tunnel band itself in the water,

 

 

Nick, I think you are suffering from a pretty common phenomenon, post boat-purchase blues. It effects a lot of people when all the stress and fuss of buying the boat is over and it now somehow doesn't shine quite so brightly.

 

It will pass, and you'll love her again. Especially when the weather improves

 

Richard

 

 

That is sound advice however

[Nickhlx]

It may just be the design of the boat, but I haven't often seen the tunnel band itself in the water,

 

 

 

That is sound advice however

 

I was also wondering if the painting has been applied "a bit low"

 

Nick

[Tim Doran]

I dont think that it has been mentioned but maybe you should consider loosening the skin fitting applying silicon sealant and tightening up again.

 

Lovely boat. I didn't sink so get over the blues.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Tim Doran

[nwj2000]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for all the feedback. Yes I probably am suffering from the post purchase blues a little. I feel better about things today after reading all your comments.

 

I have filled the water tank. It's brought the stern up about 2-3 inches. The diesel tank is about half full. It still looks a bit too high at the front and low at the back to me.

 

See new pictures (how do I insert these directly?!);

 

My link

My link

 

Not had a chance to look at the skin fitting from the inside just yet, will try and do this tonight.

 

Cheers,

 

Nick

 

Sounds quite possible

Did the water pumped out smell soapy or was it cloudy?

 

Steve

 

It was canal water I think.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

 

 

It was canal water I think.

 

It would be worth checking your shower for any leaks first as this is the easier and cheaper fix.

 

We were plagued with water leaks from our shower room last summer. In the end we resealed the whole room, created an overflow into the bilge area and renewed some plumbing. None of this worked. It was a blocked filter in the sump pump

[bizzard]

I bought a 40ft Narrowboat from a broker in Derby about three weeks ago. Like a fool I didn't get a survey done - the reason being it came with a survey that was a little over 12 months old that stated no major issues, hull thickness's were good etc etc and the broker basically said to me upon me asking him if I should get another "Well, we have to recommend to everyone to get a survey, BUT if it was me I wouldn't bother".

 

The problems started when I picked the boat up to move it to my mooring at Saweley. The engine overheated on the way there, I stopped the boat, refilled and bled the cooling system and went on my way. Upon arriving at Sawley I took the boat to JBJ Marine and got them to service the engine and change the coolant, the guy found some loose pipes on the cooling system and fixed those. He mentioned that it was smoking a lot, when asked what this might be his reply was "Well, it's knackered mate". Having posted on here before about the smoking, I'm less worried as there seems to be quite a few things I can do before I write the engine off as a dud.

 

The next problem was the leaking Houdini hatch that soaked my bed over one weekend. Not worried about this particularly, but in taking the bed apart to dry it I noticed wetness under the bed. Cut a long story short it turns out that the skin fitting connected to the shower waste is sitting VERY close to the waterline (currently about three inches above the water). The fouling on the hull actually reaches the skin fitting, so at some point the fitting must have actually been AT the waterline. The upshot of this is that water has been getting in and running under the floor boards, I had a hole cut in the floor and the bloke pumped out at least 30 litres of water.

 

This got me thinking as to why someone would put a skin fitting so low - I don't think it was fitted low, I think the hull is too low in the water. Now looking at the boat and comparing with lots of other boats in the marina, it looks to me like the back of my boat is much lower in the water than other boats. It's difficult to judge, but it looks to me like the bow is only about 6 inches under the water, where as the stern right at the back is at least 18 inches under.

 

These are the things I'd like you good people to advise me on;

 

1. Why would the back of the boat be so low in the water? (Although the water from the leaking skin fitting was pumped out from under the floor, is it possible that there is a lower sump somewhere where water might collect?)

 

2. Do I have any comeback on the broker that sold me this boat?

 

3. Is it worth while getting a retrospective survey done?

 

4. What's the minimum height for a skin fitting?

 

Thanks in advance for all your help!

 

Nick

If its yellow and you can squeeze it the odds are it is a lemon.

[PaulG]

If its yellow and you can squeeze it the odds are it is a lemon.

Except when it is a banana.

it is important not to confuse the two.

[Albion]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for all the feedback. Yes I probably am suffering from the post purchase blues a little. I feel better about things today after reading all your comments.

 

I have filled the water tank. It's brought the stern up about 2-3 inches. The diesel tank is about half full. It still looks a bit too high at the front and low at the back to me.

 

See new pictures (how do I insert these directly?!);

 

My link

My link

 

Not had a chance to look at the skin fitting from the inside just yet, will try and do this tonight.

 

Cheers,

 

Nick

The one thing that worries me slightly about all your photos, even these latest ones with the water tank filled is the well established and clearly defined water (tide) mark several inches above the existing water level. It takes a while to get that established. Either that boat has sat well down in the water for some reason or it has had a significant list which is difficult to judge as we can only see one side. Could this suggest some previous significant water ingress perhaps?

Roger

[alan_fincher]

pictures (how do I insert these directly?!);

 

My link

My link

Just put 'IMG' and '/IMG' tags around them, (need square brackets for each....

 

 

It looks OK to me - I'd not worry about it!

[nwj2000]

The one thing that worries me slightly about all your photos, even these latest ones with the water tank filled is the well established and clearly defined water (tide) mark several inches above the existing water level. It takes a while to get that established. Either that boat has sat well down in the water for some reason or it has had a significant list which is difficult to judge as we can only see one side. Could this suggest some previous significant water ingress perhaps?

Roger

 

Good point Roger. The previous owners were caravanner's and I got the impression they didn't use the boat much at all. It was also apparent that they knew even less than I do about boats, therefore I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been left unattended for long periods.

[Ally]

I was also wondering if the painting has been applied "a bit low"

 

Nick

looking at the new pic, it looks like the red is out the water now, and is a slimmer band anyway than the cream. The stripes are usually governed by the rubbing strake going around the stern, so hard to paint them in the wrong place. But it does appear, from what I can see, that the black below the red stripe is now on the water line which is how it should be. I'd still do some looping to effectively get the outlets higher though, from inside.

[steelaway]

Good point Roger. The previous owners were caravanner's and I got the impression they didn't use the boat much at all. It was also apparent that they knew even less than I do about boats, therefore I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been left unattended for long periods.

 

Hi

 

 

I would still be tempted to ballast the front down some more, it still looks high to me

I suspect it will also help the boat steer better.

 

Alex

[bottle]

nwj2000

 

Here is my boat 60' with full tanks, water bow and diesel stern. the black tank is empty.

 

Not the best of photo's but look closely at he waterline and the gunwhale (spelling) line

 

 

As you can see it looks similar to yours, in the way she sits in the water, the red band is narrower than the cream, there is a rubbing strake on the water line. below that I have another 4" before the uxter plate.

 

With an empty water tank (bow) that rubbing strake sits below the water line.

 

Do you have gas bottles at the front? If so and these are empty that is another 26Kg (two bottles) at the bow that could be added.

 

My boat never sits the same for very long as tank empty and fill.

 

You should see her when the diesel and black tanks (stern) are full and water tank is empty.

[RLWP]

The sun is shining, go cruising

 

Richard

[bottle]

I am cruising but one has to stop for food and rest at sometime doesn't one.

 

ps. CCing because I can and not leave my boat at the top of a lock flight, all be it a permanent paid for mooring.

[alan_fincher]

Hi

 

 

I would still be tempted to ballast the front down some more, it still looks high to me

I suspect it will also help the boat steer better.

 

Alex

Well it wouldn't be CWDF if we all agreed.

 

I don't think ballasting the front down will improve handling, though it might not get blown about quite so much on a windy day. Chalice is very "bow in the air" and very easy to handle.

 

I don't know if the gas is in the bow, but I can't immediately see gas locker drain holes, which clearly you should be able to, if there is.

 

Before ballasting the front down more, make sure no drain holes will be too low. The holes that drain the front deck are also not that far above water that I'd personally want them a lot lower.

 

The sun is shining, go cruising

 

Richard

That's what I'd do if I'd bought this boat,(although I would certainly make sure the "zero oil pressure at tickover" is a false alram before going anywhere!

 

Stop worrying about the trim, though!

[Naughty Cal]

 

You should see her when the diesel and black tanks (stern) are full and water tank is empty.

 

You think you have problems with trim. You should see some of the angles NC ends up at. A small boat with big tanks leads to some very "odd" angles of trim.

 

She currently has a full black water tank an almost empty water tank and a half full fuel tank which is making her sit very bow down. Not good when you are trying to cook and the pans keep sliding down the hob

[Arthur Brown]

I think that you have bought a boat with a reasonable "to do" list. Some things to your style of life, some things to your idea of best safety practise. I'm sure that another owner would find a "list to do" but it would be different.

 

Dry it out and sail it, prioritise the to do list, starting with any "stop it sinking" items and finishing with the display of drinks glasses!

[Chris Pink]

Except when it is a banana.

it is important not to confuse the two.

 

Banana goes cloudy in gin and tonic