possible drought this summer !

[JerryP]

i was listening to radio 2 earlier and it was reported that we could be in for a drought this Summer ,the worst since 1976 !.

[Ace 01]

And here am I looking forward to our first NB (being built at the moment), talk about bad timing

 

Ann

[Chalky]

To quote the BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17102615

 

"The situation contrasts markedly with Scotland where reservoirs are between 93% and 97% full.

 

Ms Spelman said she wanted water companies to look at the possibility of connecting pipe networks so they could transfer water from wetter parts of the country.

 

Severn Trent's water director, Andy Smith, said: "I would agree that we should be looking at interconnecting the networks between the various water companies.

 

"What has happened quite understandably is each water company has tended to focus on its own area.

 

"And we believe that there will be opportunities with relatively small levels of investment to make inter-connections between different organisations to try and get the water from the north and the west where it's relatively wet down to the south and the east.""

 

I thought there was a system called water grid that allowed them to move water round the country using the rivers and canals. In that case could they send it down the GU & South Oxford?

[WJM]

"In that case could they send it down the GU"

 

The GU does a great deal of going up on it's way to London. Ask anyone in Tring to explain!

[Chalky]

"In that case could they send it down the GU"

 

The GU does a great deal of going up on it's way to London. Ask anyone in Tring to explain!

 

So does the South Oxford where we're moored. Just like a bit lot more water in the reservoirs.

[JerryP]

To quote the BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17102615

 

 

 

 

good link ,thanks Chalky

[CV32]

Good old Ms Spelman, we can all sleep at night knowing she has just figured we are in a drought situation .... worth every penny of her inflated salary and no doubt long list of expenses and probably a second home tucked in there as well.

 

Its a bit late for the water company's to start talking about connecting up - they did that after the last big drought in '76 and then proceeded to do the square root of bugger all about actually connecting anything together

what they have done since 1976 is in some cases not sort out the leakages (sound familiar?) and just increase the prices whilst returning a nice dividend and no doubt fat bonuses to their senior management (sounds familiar again doesn't it)

[beardshave]

Where is Denis Howell when we need him?

[ditchcrawler]

We visited Everrets Park at Oulton Broad today. They had the sprinklers out on the bowling green

[OldGoat]

To quote the BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-17102615

 

Ms Spelman said she wanted water companies to look at the possibility of connecting pipe networks so they could transfer water from wetter parts of the country.

 

 

If that's true it beggars belief. I'm probably a bit bluer than most, but I'm beginning to wonder if these politicians have any sense whatever (or are they relying of the population being denser that they are??

This idea was promulgated some years ago. It's a good concept, but the infrastructure would be HUGE and take years and years and years to implement.

 

To move just a small amount of water take a helluva lot of energy and massive pipework ('cos there are hills in the way).

 

BW spend a lot on money in 'leccy just to pump up a few locks full of water. Fr'iinstance Hatton, Napton.

 

It would be great if some bod more knowledgeable than I came back with statistics for - say Napton - my impression is that the girt big pumps run 24/7 and only replenish a few (20?) in a day.

 

 

 

I'd love to be wrong......

[Alan Saunders]

See BBC News

 

"One scheme that has stubbornly refused to be ripped off the drawing board is a link between the Severn and the Thames.

It is among the options that Thames Water has considered in recent years; and even though there is currently no plan to make it happen, it may become viable, depending on the economics."

 

What boater would not like to see the Thames & Severn Canal reinstated? I believe the economics are now, right.

 

Alan

[Nickhlx]

Surely the way to transfer water from up north to down south with minimal digging through hills to avoid pumping up and over them would be as follows :

 

Assuming that "sea level" is pretty much the same anywhere, could not available surplus of water be piped down to the nearest coast, then run along the sea bed at a suitable depth to avoid being damaged by ships etc then pop back into wherever was deemed appropriate nearest to point of need ? That would then require possible pumping to lift it up to the level of the water purification plant ( which if for London would not be a very great height) and also pumping to counteract ( significant) pipe losses, although this would be required if the pipeline was across the land anyway, being a function of distance and pipe diameter. It would however save vast distances of the countryside being (expensively) dug up..

 

Some of the frictional losses could be reduced if the start of the feed pipe could be from some massive reservoir high up in the "mountains" somewhere, or if in Scotland, be pumped up by Hydro-electric to fill a reservoir higher up on off peak as they do at the moment..

 

Naturally a rather large and long term project, but would provide a few jobs and doubtless re-employ some skills from the waning North Sea offshore oil industry.... and it seems that it would help alleviate what seems to be an ever increasing problem

 

Nick

Edited February 21, 2012 by Nickhlx

[matty40s]

Cumbria has had its wettest winter on record. The canals run from Cumbria (well Tewitfield) to Guilford ish

the pipelines would cost more than the HS2 rail link.

The canals could be used with creative back pumping for much less.

[Nickhlx]

Cumbria has had its wettest winter on record. The canals run from Cumbria (well Tewitfield) to Guilford ish

the pipelines would cost more than the HS2 rail link.

The canals could be used with creative back pumping for much less.

 

Even better... it would ensure that the canals had presumably a lot more water flow along them and would be full all the time - not sure whether a month long stoppage for lock repairs could be tolerated if they had to drain a pound, although I guess there could / would be a bypass pipe / pump temporarily installed...

 

Nick

[Rebotco]

Cumbria has had its wettest winter on record. The canals run from Cumbria (well Tewitfield) to Guilford ish

the pipelines would cost more than the HS2 rail link.

The canals could be used with creative back pumping for much less.

 

I think one of the biggest problems to any national solution has been the fragmentation of the water industry into a number

 

of separate private Water Authorities. All of these have shareholder profit as their chief motivation, not solving

 

national water distribution problems. No single one of them is either able or motivated to do so.

 

Although I am on the blue side of the political spectrum, I strongly believe that certain critical services should never

 

have been de-nationalised. They are too important to be trusted to private companies that exist chiefly to serve their

 

shareholders' interests. Water is one of these, so is Transport, Energy, Education and Health. All now fragmented into

 

dysfunctional competing blobs. Some maybe good, others awful, but the point is nothing is now "joined-up" so there can be

 

no national solutions to these life-critical services.

 

I would not advocate returning to the old form of nationalisation with politicians and unions attempting to run them.

 

The waste and inefficiencies which that bred were responsible for its downfall.

 

But I am convinced there are competent business people who could in some way be employed by the State to run this infra-

 

structure solely in the interests of the nation as a whole, not just a group of investors. There would have to be

 

accountability, with checks and balances of course, but these should be at arms length from the politicians of the day.

 

Can't say it would be easy getting to integrate these vital services. Can say it would be better than the dog's breakfast

 

of fragmentation we have today.

[stickleback]

Cumbria has had its wettest winter on record. The canals run from Cumbria (well Tewitfield) to Guilford ish

the pipelines would cost more than the HS2 rail link.

The canals could be used with creative back pumping for much less.

 

This seems a really good plan - tell Mrs Spelman!

[Keeping Up]

Even better... it would ensure that the canals had presumably a lot more water flow along them and would be full all the time - not sure whether a month long stoppage for lock repairs could be tolerated if they had to drain a pound, although I guess there could / would be a bypass pipe / pump temporarily installed...

 

Nick

 

But not so good because boating would become a secondary requirement that would be sidelined to such an extent that it would probably become impossible.

[Proper Job]

If that's true it beggars belief. I'm probably a bit bluer than most, but I'm beginning to wonder if these politicians have any sense whatever (or are they relying of the population being denser that they are??

This idea was promulgated some years ago. It's a good concept, but the infrastructure would be HUGE and take years and years and years to implement.

 

To move just a small amount of water take a helluva lot of energy and massive pipework ('cos there are hills in the way).

 

BW spend a lot on money in 'leccy just to pump up a few locks full of water. Fr'iinstance Hatton, Napton.

 

It would be great if some bod more knowledgeable than I came back with statistics for - say Napton - my impression is that the girt big pumps run 24/7 and only replenish a few (20?) in a day.

 

 

 

I'd love to be wrong......

I don't know what the Napton pumps are rated at or how much leccy they use, but when I went over last year I had a chat with the BW bloke at the top of Marston Doles. At that time there was a 4 hour restriction on Napton and Claydon. No water was coming from the reserviors so all of the summit water was being back pumped.

 

It was estimated that the 4 hour window would allow circa 20 boats to go up/down each flight. So that was 40 lock fulls of water pumped up over 24 hours.

 

I'm sure someone can do the math

Edited February 22, 2012 by Proper Job

[magpie patrick]

Could we campaign for this?

 

Grand Contour Canal

[john6767]

I don't know what the Napton pumps are rated at or how much leccy they use, but when I went over last year I had a chat with the BW bloke at the top of Marston Doles. At that time there was a 4 hour restriction on Napton and Claydon. No water was coming from the reserviors so all of the summit water was being back pumped.

 

It was estimated that the 4 hour window would allow circa 20 boats to go up/down each flight. So that was 40 lock fulls of water pumped up over 24 hours.

 

I'm sure someone can do the math

 

Looking back at my thread on our trip down the South Oxford in the summer, this is what I said at the time

 

Chatting to the BW guy while we waited. The restrictions have dropped the lock movements for the summit pound from 600 per week to 400, primarily due to there being no hire boats. It certainly is very quiet. According to the BW guy the water for the summit is mostly coming from back pumping at Napton with only trickle being taken from the reservoir. Before the restrictions the summit pound was down about a foot, now it it dropping about an inch during the 4 hours the locks are open, and the over the next 20 hours the back pumping at Napton is restoring it. On that basis the current situation is sustainable, in his opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[JonL]

Connecting up water companies - frankly it ain't gonna happen, even leaving the commercials to one side, how many years will it take to get all the planning permissions together to build the pipes ?

 

Some very simple water saving measures now could have millions of gallons. Toilets are a massive users of water a simple house brick in the bottom of your cistern would save at least a litre on every flush - couple that with " if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down" and your problem might go away

[Proper Job]

Back in the 70's drought times, I remember a slogan, "save water - bath with a friend".

 

Now........ I can name some I wouldn't mind sharing a bath with , others - absolutely not!

[Nickhlx]

 

 

Some very simple water saving measures now could have millions of gallons. Toilets are a massive users of water a simple house brick in the bottom of your cistern would save at least a litre on every flush

 

 

 

 

I do that with my car - saves a fair bit of fuel

 

Nick

Edited February 22, 2012 by Nickhlx

[Proper Job]

Connecting up water companies - frankly it ain't gonna happen, even leaving the commercials to one side, how many years will it take to get all the planning permissions together to build the pipes ?

 

Some very simple water saving measures now could have millions of gallons. Toilets are a massive users of water a simple house brick in the bottom of your cistern would save at least a litre on every flush - couple that with " if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down" and your problem might go away

You've been able to get FREE water saving devices from Thames Water for a long time:

 

link

 

I'm sure the other water companies do similar schemes

Edited February 22, 2012 by Proper Job

[Steilsteven]

Could we campaign for this?

 

Grand Contour Canal

 

 

Yes, that would be in effect a national reservoir, it would be controlled by the E.A. ( I imagine ) with water companies drawing from it.

I would think it would be cheaper and quicker to build and operate than a piped system which would require hundreds of pumps and additional reservoirs.

 

Keith