Maximum Persons on a PRIVATE Boat

[alan_fincher]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

[Nickhlx]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

 

 

I await responses with interest - our boat has a plate installed by the manufacturers which states maximum capacity is 6 persons

which to me seems a little "over-cautious". I was told it refers to the safe limit the boat can withstand if all six stood on the port or starboard gunnels (gunwhales?) without it "tipping over" ( as if that would ever happen with sane people, and if they are not, would they take any notice of a sign anyway ?) The boat sleeps six in two doubles and two singles and can seat 8 to 10 at the dinette / front cabin tables... neither of the above takes account of whether people are babies, toddlers, skinny 18 year olds, or obese older people, something that must obviously make a difference... Is there a "standard person" to which they refer ?

 

I look forward to replies too...

 

Nick

Edited November 18, 2011 by Nickhlx

[steelaway]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

 

 

 

Hi

 

On the brass plaque you have for a boat certification there is a space for the 'maximum number of passengers'.

I had always assumed it was determined by the stability test that's supposed to be carried out on boats

 

Alex

[Boat&Bikes]

Hi

 

On the brass plaque you have for a boat certification there is a space for the 'maximum number of passengers'.

I had always assumed it was determined by the stability test that's supposed to be carried out on boats

 

Alex

 

 

This is interesting,our boats plate states just 4 persons,had lots more aboard mind...

 

 

 

Ian

[Québec]

Maybe I'm missing something here....but doesn't size of boat enter into the calculation somewhere along the line?

 

(edited to add I had 9 (7 adults 2 young children) our 40' trad the other day. But we stayed moored up. Very cosy!)

Edited November 18, 2011 by Québec

[MtB]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

 

 

Hmmm I'm reasonably sure there is no statutory limit on the number of peeps allowed on a private craft but my understanding is that once the number of peeps on a boat reaches 12, a whole load of stuff kicks in to complicate things. Possibly HSE 'guidance'. Probable effect is that your insurance becomes invalid unless you comply. So if you have other things to do with you life, and guests can cope with 'no insurance', then no problem!

 

Can't produce a link, just my understanding.

[nicknorman]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

For modern boats, it is determined by the RCD certification which as othes have said will relate to the stability amongst other factors. For boats pre-RCD I suspect there is no limit other than any specified by insurance etc.

[Lady Muck]

It's usually 12 and that includes the community boats that we volunteer on.

[Boat&Bikes]

Our boat is 45 foot with a relatively shallow draught so i guess its less stable than longer deeper boats,but 4 persons as stated on the build sheet....

[Travis]

'Think we squeezed about 40 onboard one night/party, nobody died...

 

[carlt]

My last boat (51' x 13'6") was built to carry up to 90 people.

 

I've never known enough people, at one time, to test it, though.

[Travis]

Agreed, I only knew about 20 of my guests

[Cheshire cat]

I'm sure Haggis will be along shortly. She's had around 20 on her Sea Otter and its only the small one. Who needs insurance anyway.

 

And another thing. What about the day boats? They quite often have eight or ten people on them and they are only about 18 feet long

[PhilR]

My boat insurance is due for renewal in a few days time. and I have the latest policy terms in front of me.

 

One of the clauses states: *The number of passengers is restricted to the MCA coding or other local regulation or licensing conditions, but never exceeding 12*

[Lady Muck]

'Think we squeezed about 40 onboard one night/party, nobody died...

 

 

This one didn't survive the party. Clicky

[Cheshire cat]

It sounds like we are being encouraged to buy in to health and safety all of a sudden.

[grahame r]

In respect of CapriFool's request not to derail another thread......

 

I'm starting another.

 

Is there a legal limit on the number of people who can be on board a private canal or river boat in the UK ?

 

Some have already claimed the off-quoted 12 number that definitely applies to commercial craft.

 

But I can't quickly turn up the references that establish a limit if it is not a hire boat or other commercial craft.

 

So can someone please link to actual legislation that places a limit on private craft ?

 

Note:

 

I realise an insurer may place a limit, but that is obviously not the same as a universal limit applying to all private boats.

7

 

I very much doubt there is a maximum number set out in law, what you have to ask yourself is "in the event of a tragedy would a Judge consider my actions reckless"

[Dalesman]

7

 

I very much doubt there is a maximum number set out in law, what you have to ask yourself is "in the event of a tragedy would a Judge consider my actions reckless"

The maximum number that you can carry is set out in the RCD,and it is upto the builder to carry out a healing test with the maximum number of persons and their baggage plus stores, and the fuel and water tanks full.It will be hard for a 32 feet boat to pass a heeling test with more than 10 persons aboard. The MCA rule for a persons weight is 75KG.

Hire boat heeling test:

[Dalesman]

Interesting also to note that a lot of the rules have been changed following this incident:

 

Breakaway

Edited November 19, 2011 by Dalesman

[Burgiesburnin]

I await responses with interest - our boat has a plate installed by the manufacturers which states maximum capacity is 6 persons

which to me seems a little "over-cautious". I was told it refers to the safe limit the boat can withstand if all six stood on the port or starboard gunnels (gunwhales?) without it "tipping over" ( as if that would ever happen with sane people, and if they are not, would they take any notice of a sign anyway ?) The boat sleeps six in two doubles and two singles and can seat 8 to 10 at the dinette / front cabin tables... neither of the above takes account of whether people are babies, toddlers, skinny 18 year olds, or obese older people, something that must obviously make a difference... Is there a "standard person" to which they refer ?

 

I look forward to replies too...

 

Nick

[dor]

My RCD plate says 6 persons for a 57ft narrowboat. This was determined by having people standing on the gunwale with full tanks and a heel angle of 7 degrees. The surveyor overseeing the RCD had a board with weighted string marked at that angle. The people on the gunwale were nominally 75Kg. I suspect most boat builders just guess at it.

 

I do wonder though how a day boat can pass an RCD when they allow 12 people on a 20ft boat.

[Hairy-Neil]

The maximum number that you can carry is set out in the RCD,

 

So what about boats built prior to RCD. There's a few of them still about...

[magpie patrick]

So what about boats built prior to RCD. There's a few of them still about...

 

A very grey area. I'd suggest that RCD or no, it isn't just the law but the consequences that matter.

 

The MCA "rules" are only guidance even for commercial passenger boats so long as they are carrying 12 passengers or less. The law only gets interested when the number of passengers exceeds 12, and this derives from various Merchant Shipping Acts. As may be apparent, the merchant shipping act applies to trading vessels, but it also applies to private vessels over a given size regardless of the number of passengers. The current size is larger than a full length narrow boat, but not much.

 

However, if you have more people on board than your RCD allows, or more than 12 on board, and have an accident resulting in injury or loss of life, the chances are the MCA and the MAIB will come down on you like a tonne of bricks, citing the legislation as evidence that you failed in your duty of care, rather than directly prosecuting you for being in breach. Your insurers will probably disown you as well. It's like driving with no insurance and no MOT, you'll be fine so long as you don't have an accident.

[alan_fincher]

I think two things are being confused here......

 

1) The number of people that that RCD certification determines can go on that plate, (is that just "heel test" or can other factors also affect it?).

 

2) Any statutory maximum absolute number for all boats.

 

As has been said, many older boats are not subject to RCD certification, (neither of ours are).

 

As DOR says, no way is a 20 foot day boat with 12 on the gunwale going to pass a stringent heel test, (and anyway that, and even the community boats that Lady Muck mentioned are surely "commercial" not "private" craft).

 

The most interesting comment to date (to me) was.....

 

My boat insurance is due for renewal in a few days time. and I have the latest policy terms in front of me.

 

One of the clauses states: *The number of passengers is restricted to the MCA coding or other local regulation or licensing conditions, but never exceeding 12*

 

But what does "MCA coding" mean, (not the number on the RCD plating, I'm guessing, or is it ?). And is that "never exceeding 12" determined my the MCA, or simply a restriction that the insurance company places, irrespective of anything else?

 

If there is an MCA ruling that sets an absolute number, even for private boats, and with no RCD certification, can someone post a link to it, please ?

 

I think I need to dig out my insurance documents.

[cereal tiller]

alan, have you had a look on the MCA website?