Liverpool boats ,are they any good ?

[JerryP]

I've heard some bad reports about the welding and fitout of Liverpool boats ,has anyone had or got any issues with them ,there appears to be quite a few around at reasonable money ,I'm hoping to move onto a NB soon ,is there any reason to avoid buying a LB ?

[Athy]

No.

Liverpool were a large-scale shell builder and a smaller-scale fitter-outer. By this I mean that many, probably the majority of, their shells were supplied to professional boat-fitters or, as sailaways, to do-it-yourselfers. Ten years ago Liverpool shells were used by many firms who sold them under different names - such as Devizes Narrowboats, who fitted out our last boat. So complaints about fit-outs may come from people who have bought a Liverpool shell which was fitted by someone else, perhaps an amateur with more enthusiasm than skill.

The trads especially are quite handsome and, in my experience, well-built - although when we came to sell ours we realised that the side deck on one side was an inch wider than the side deck on the other side! Didn't seem to affect the handling, though.

 

As always, the best way to assess them is to go and look at some "in the flesh". As so many were built, they won't be hard to find.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

They sold a lot of steel at a reasonable price. There is a very cheap 70ft on http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=156688 for £25,000 part fitted and looks a real snip.

[deletedaccount]

From what I've seen they were favoured by those looking for a cheap shell to self fitout. The quality of that can vary enormously. I've seen some that are horrible falling apart impossible to live on nothing works properly deathtraps and some that are nicely done. Double check everything on a self fit out.

[Chalky]

I've got a Liverpool trad sailaway that I fitted out myself. I'm very pleased with it. They produced boats in large numbers which means they are very common. One of the advantages of this is process stability. I have had a few issues but nothing major (typically things not tightened when fitted)

 

There are a few bits that I really appreciate. There is a steel bulkhead between the engine room and cabin which is welded up to counter level so if/when you flood the engine room the rest of the boats ok. They also fitted the wrong engine in mine - to my advantage!

 

If you want a boat that is a detailed replica of a working boat then Liverpool are not for you. If you want a reasonable boat for reasonable money then have a look. If I was going to buy another boat I'd certainly look at them (if they were still going).

[deletedaccount]

Also, the little scroll thing at the front irritates me, but not all liverpool boats have it.

 

that 25k 70 footer has 3.5k travelpower too fwiw I don't like the layout and it's made of pine, but it could still be a good buy for the right person imo.

[wrigglefingers]

Also, the little scroll thing at the front irritates me, but not all liverpool boats have it.

 

that 25k 70 footer has 3.5k travelpower too fwiw I don't like the layout and it's made of pine, but it could still be a good buy for the right person imo.

 

Layout preference varies so much that it may someone's dream layout - who knows? The pine could be painted but there's nowt you can reasonably do with the windows which might make it a bit cold methinks. Make an offer and see where it gets you!

[Chertsey]

I was aware of one that had a leak from the integral water tank to the outside of the boat. But they made so many, and plenty of people think they're ok, so perhaps you'd have to be pretty unlucky to find a bad one.

[deletedaccount]

Layout preference varies so much that it may someone's dream layout - who knows? The pine could be painted but there's nowt you can reasonably do with the windows which might make it a bit cold methinks. Make an offer and see where it gets you!

 

Oh def, I agree. It's just not the layout for me!

[RobinJ]

I've heard some bad reports about the welding and fitout of Liverpool boats ,has anyone had or got any issues with them ,there appears to be quite a few around at reasonable money ,I'm hoping to move onto a NB soon ,is there any reason to avoid buying a LB ?

To be fair, there are many good Liverpool boats around.

Its a bit like BL, if you've got one that was built at a bad time, your unlucky!

Late 90's early 00's seem to have been problematic and possibly at a couple of other times!

[blackrose]

Since they built so many boats it seems reasonable that they'd have had a larger proportion of faults or complaints than other builders. On mine the steelwork is good, but LB cut one corner on their uxter plates which are only 6mm thick when they really should be 10mm. I believe other budget builders have continued this practice. I've no idea how much money they saved doing this, but it hardly seems worth it on an individual boat. On hundreds of builds I guess this cost cutting produced profits.

[boots]

When we were looking, also were advised about 'issues' with Liverpool boats - but, with so many being built you can't help but come across them for sale. Ultimately, we took the view that they are the 'Ford' of boats - i.e. mass produced, but that does not necessarily mean poor quality. Yes, there are areas where you can get better built, but you will pay for the difference.

 

in the end, we bought a Liverpool Boats , had her 2 years now and very pleased. Would I have another - yes.

 

Must add though, this is our first boat - so have no experience of 'living' with ones from other boat builders.

[David Mack]

Baseplates went from the 6mm which used to be standard, to 8mm to 10mm mainly to give additional reserve against wear as you bump along the bottom and corrosion of the unpainted bottom. Since the uxter plate is not subject to this wear, and can be blacked along with the hull sides, there is no need for it to be any thicker than the sides.

 

David

[miq]

We have had an LB hull now for 15 years with no problems, built in 1994 the roof is welded in sections instead of being one piece but the joins only show in evening light! Ours was fitted by Triton in a workmanlike if fairly basic way, and the layout suits us. We were grateful for the engine space/cabin welded bulkhead, when the return pipe from our common rail Lombardini diesel blew off and flooded the engine space with fuel. The original purchase surveyor gave the opinion that the hull would last longer than either him or me and I am hoping for another 20 years or so on the cut!

[PhilR]

Check the capacity of the fuel tank .......... There was a problem with a few boats when they changed the shape of the stern.

[blackrose]

Baseplates went from the 6mm which used to be standard, to 8mm to 10mm mainly to give additional reserve against wear as you bump along the bottom and corrosion of the unpainted bottom. Since the uxter plate is not subject to this wear, and can be blacked along with the hull sides, there is no need for it to be any thicker than the sides.

 

David

 

Yes, that's a fair argument, but then I wonder why most other builders use 10mm for the uxter plate? Could it be because this is the one area of the bottom of a narrowboat which has no internal framing?

Edited October 3, 2011 by blackrose

[n.b.Goldie]

Yes, that's a fair argument, but then I wonder why most other builders use 10mm for the uxter plate?

 

I suspect it is 'fashion'. My 1986 Mike Heyward had a 10mm bottom and a 6mm uxter plate. The surveyor said this was not a problem and there was no significant pitting on the uxter plate.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[WotEver]

Yes, that's a fair argument, but then I wonder why most other builders use 10mm for the uxter plate?

A surveyor told me that (on Wot Ever) most of the uxter plate was the bit cut off the bottom plate, with a transverse weld across where they added another piece to complete it. That seems to make sense for a low-volume builder. If you're building boats on a production line then I can see the cost savings of using slightly thinner plate for the Uxter and using the 10mm offcuts elsewhere (although I can't think where).

 

Tony

[station tug]

A surveyor told me that (on Wot Ever) most of the uxter plate was the bit cut off the bottom plate, with a transverse weld across where they added another piece to complete it. That seems to make sense for a low-volume builder. If you're building boats on a production line then I can see the cost savings of using slightly thinner plate for the Uxter and using the 10mm offcuts elsewhere (although I can't think where).

 

Tony

i agree.....when you cut the swim theres a perfect chunk of 10mm to lift and make the uxter plate...cant think how they could save money by not using it....its a usless shape

[Chalky]

Check the capacity of the fuel tank .......... There was a problem with a few boats when they changed the shape of the stern.

 

I would agree. Our tank is only about 90 litres which means we fill up about twice in a fortnight cruise. (at the start and again at the end). Not a problem if you know about it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Chalky

[CloudOwl]

On 03/10/2011 at 12:58, JerryP said:

I've heard some bad reports about the welding and fitout of Liverpool boats ,has anyone had or got any issues with them ,there appears to be quite a few around at reasonable money ,I'm hoping to move onto a NB soon ,is there any reason to avoid buying a LB ?

I know this is an old thread, but The Phyllis May (RIP) of Narrowdog fame was a Liverpool... and she crossed the channel!

[blackrose]

10 hours ago, Genefreak said:

I know this is an old thread, but The Phyllis May (RIP) of Narrowdog fame was a Liverpool... and she crossed the channel!

 

Well that should dispel the myths about the steel and welding then. When I got my LB sailaway in 2005 people told me the steel was poor quality and was so brittle I wouldn't even be able to drill it. That was all bollox of course and nearly 20 years later the hull is still in perfect condition with zero pitting on the sides. The never painted baseplate looks fine too.

 

LB installations and fit-outs weren't the best and that's where the majority of the faults were picked up, but since at one point they were probably producing more boats than the rest of the UK canal boat building industry combined, that's probably to be expected.

[hider]

Some were found to have welds missing when surveyed.

I launched a few back in early part of this century, one started to sink straight away, a cut in the side plating where a vertical stiffener had been cut in situ.

Built a few hire boats on them, dimensionally challenging as one side is often not the same as the other!

Some came out like bananas due to welding one side fully before the other.

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Genefreak said:

but The Phyllis May (RIP) of Narrowdog fame was a Liverpool... and she crossed the channel!

 

Why the "RIP" then? 

 

Sunk, perhaps...?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, hider said:

Some came out like bananas due to welding one side fully before the other.

 

Resulting in some getting stuck in narrow locks - the bottom end of the Llangollen was a 'favourite'.

 

They may have been 6' 11" beam across any one point but put the bow and stern along side a wall and there could be a large gap amidships, or you got the bow and amidships alongside and the stern would be no where near the wall.

 

There have been some reports that there has been several inches difference in the width of the two gunwales