To thrust or not to thrust

[Guest]

I got mine free,

 

always remember there is no such thing as a free lunch....it will at sometime need maintenance/service and repairing which will cost.

 

But as I said way up the thread it is a choice thing, you made yours, I'm buying a boat which doesn't have one, I made mine, I suspect we'll still both enjoy our boats immensely....

[nb Innisfree]

All this business about manoeuvring against the wind, depends a lot on the strength of wind

[Guest]

All this business about manoeuvring against the wind, depends a lot on the strength of wind

 

no apparently it just needs you to whip a rope around a (non existent in most winding holes) bollard and all will be fine...

[blackrose]

or if you are fortunate to have one you just press the BT button...always supposing 1. its working, 2. hasn't flooded the boat due to corrosion in the tube, 3. there are no professional boaters watching who will scream with derision... and 4. that you don't give a damn about tradition!

 

oh and have deep pockets to be able to afford one.....

 

I got mine free, do I sound smug?

 

I haven't fully understood why a BT tunnel is any more likely to corrode through than a steel prop shaft tube or rudder stock tube?

Edited June 24, 2010 by blackrose

[Maffi]

snip

Despite the fact that many narrowboat owners on here have also confirmed that there is no need for them, you still insist it is necessary for you to use your boat.

 

Of course a bow thruster is not necessary but then neither is a microwave or lipstick or a whole host of other usless shit but who gives a damn. Some of us have them some of us dont. Those of us that do get pissed off waiting around for those that dont to get their act together and point their boat where they need it to go and they are usually the ones that despite all their pontificating about boating skills, hold everyone up while they practice their 'boating skills'. So get a BT and save us all some grief because watching an 'expert' f**k it up can be so boring.

[Maffi]

 

Funnily enough it would appear from what I have seen here at Thrupp on this 90 degree bend thro the bridge that people with tiddly little short boats ( say 60 foot or thereabouts ) have bowthrusters fitted, and those of us who bought the WHOLE boat do not need them. I can spin my boat here with ease and take it either way thro the bridge hole again with ease without any kind of thruster.......................perhaps I should buy a tiddly little sixty footer and see why they are so hard to handle..........

 

 

You are so anal you could turn the QE2 at Thrupp unlike Heyford where you find it a tad complicated,

 

All this business about manoeuvring against the wind, depends a lot on the strength of wind

 

Sorry have to disagree. First off it depends on whether you're dumb enough to slip the ropes on a windy day.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Maffi

[DHutch]

Or the full 70 foot, without the line at the front, it is reported...

We got a pair of 70ft'ers round on a long line (southen cross and ibex) without BTs, although a bridle line was used.

 

 

Daniel

[Radiomariner]

If I were building a new boat, I'd stick one in, 'cause the extra cost isn't exactly much on a new build. Somewhere down the line, a future purchaser may like the idea, and I guess (?) it wouldn't actually put too many people off buying, even if they didn't want to use it.

 

We considered adding one to our project boat, then thought it was a daft idea, 'cause it's so short and light anyway, and we had enough to get on with!

 

PC

Paul has a good point. In the second hand market those that want BT's will select one with one fitted. Most of those that do not have a BT on their wish list will not be too concerned if one was. It could improve the "saleability" of the vessel

 

All this business about manoeuvring against the wind, depends a lot on the strength of wind

 

And the ability of the BT to cope with it.

 

Sorry have to disagree. First off it depends on whether you're dumb enough to slip the ropes on a windy day.

Exactly. Stay at the mooring. No warden will insist that you move on in a high wind. Read a book, visit the pub, play a game of dominos/cards/monopoly read another book go to the pub again. Day sorted. Be grateful that you are not in a hire boat that has to be back at it's base by a fixed date!

Edited June 24, 2010 by Radiomariner

[PhilR]

Paul has a good point. In the second hand market those that want BT's will select one with one fitted. Most of those that do not have a BT on their wish list will not be too concerned if one was. It could improve the "saleability" of the vessel

 

Whether it improves the sailability or the saleability, is open to question? I suspect a lot of people would not want the extra maintenance costs of all the *high maintenance* kit involved. However, I am sure it might be a good option for some disabled boaters.

 

But I wonder how many people use them to best advantage?

[Radiomariner]

Whether it improves the sailability or the saleability, is open to question? I suspect a lot of people would not want the extra maintenance costs of all the *high maintenance* kit involved. However, I am sure it might be a good option for some disabled boaters.

 

But I wonder how many people use them to best advantage?

 

 

On the first point I do not entirely agree. After all if the owner was not particularly interested in having a BT he would not be too concerned about maintaining it if it went wrong. However, I think most people, boaters in particular, tend to go along with the idea that if it is there it should work, and will do what's necessary to have it all in order. (Almost certainly would when it came to their time to sell the boat). The BT tube if properly made should not be a problem. It should be a special item on the purchasers surveyors report. The steel thickness of the tube should at least be the same as that of the hull plating, and all weldings, seams etc examined closley to ensure that the BT tube was as sound, robust and as water tight as the rest of the hull. Because of differing materials there is some worry about electrolytic corrosion. This can be a problem, but usually affects the propellor rather than the tube. BTW the only BT on narrow boats that I have had a good look at could be lifted out while the boat was still in the water.

 

On the second point, I think the answer is very few. I seem to recall that some of the big ship bowthrusters I have seen have warning notices saying not to run longer than one or two minutes and furthermore if allowed to overheat they will be inoperatable for about 20 minutes! As somebody already mentioned Hawkesbury I recall sitting outside the Grayhound listening to a boat turning on a BT. The BT was running continuously, in one direction or other for the full turn.

I have been in double locks with a boat that run the BT all the time, (It might keep him neatly into the side of the lock but it certainly pushed me[45ft] around a little often causing a flow between my boat and lock side and making my rusty bow rubbing strake contact its nice shiny paintwork!)

On second thoughts, it might be that some do use them properly in bursts of ten seconds or less, but I do not notice them, I only seem to notice the ones that have been running for a long time or as in above, cause me to pay attention.

 

Edited for typo

Edited June 25, 2010 by Radiomariner

[Naughty Cal]

no apparently it just needs you to whip a rope around a (non existent in most winding holes) bollard and all will be fine...

 

It neednt be a bollard, any tree or any other fixed object will do. Failing that nudge the bow into the bank and use that as the pivot point. People have managed for a couple of hundred years to turn boats around in windy spots, these techniques are nothing new.

 

The wind was full square on to the side of the boat, no matter which way I had tried to turn the bow it was into the wind and it incessantly blew me square across the winding hole and into the narrow part of the cut, there was no way I could have used the wind to assist me as I simply couldn't have got the bow across the wind direction for it to have blown it in the right direction.

 

If the wind was square onto the boat it would have pushed the bow around if you turned with it rather than pushing against it. Simple really if you think about it.

[alan_fincher]

I have to say that I have seen narrow boat bow thrusters regularly used for any number of unsuitable, inappropriate, but (more generally) unnecessary things, but on that list helping wind a boat seldom appears.

 

May be people do, but as the best winding techniques often involve leaving a front end in more or less the same place, and as the purpose of a bow-thruster seems mainly to make the front end move, it doesn't seem the most obvious thing to deploy.

 

OK, I do realise it could be used to stop a front end moving, but unless it's an obscenely windy day, that's not usually hard to arrange, is it ?

[nb Innisfree]

Sorry have to disagree. First off it depends on whether you're dumb enough to slip the ropes on a windy day.

 

Yebbut as we all know it can be nice and calm when we cast off only to be met with a force 10 as soon as we need to manoeuvre

 

 

 

 

It neednt be a bollard, any tree or any other fixed object will do. Failing that nudge the bow into the bank and use that as the pivot point. People have managed for a couple of hundred years to turn boats around in windy spots, these techniques are nothing new.

 

 

 

If the wind was square onto the boat it would have pushed the bow around if you turned with it rather than pushing against it. Simple really if you think about it.

 

Yes Phylis dear, 'simple', but in reality it can quite often be a right BASTARD to get ones boat to do as you want it.

 

But obviously I don't have the esoteric knowledge and skills that many others do, I sometimes find it far from 'simple' especially when I think it's going to be so

 

 

Edited to add: Sometimes when you are trying to edit as well

Edited June 25, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[Naughty Cal]

Yes Phylis dear, 'simple', but in reality it can quite often be a right BASTARD to get ones boat to do as you want it.

 

But obviously I don't have the esoteric knowledge and skills that many others do, I sometimes find it far from 'simple' especially when I think it's going to be so

 

 

Edited to add: Sometimes when you are trying to edit as well

 

Yes i have witnessed your boat handling and YOU made it look anything but simple

[WotEver]

Seeing as we're talking about boat handling now here's one for the experts. I very occasionally get the manoeuvre right when mooring at our pontoon, but am never quite sure WHY I got it right when I do. Of course, whenever anyone is looking I always get it very wrong and come in broadside.

 

Wot Ever is only 35ft with shallow draft and likes to go where the wind takes her. The wind in our marina is generally at 90 degrees to the pontoon, from the wrong side of the pontoon (in other words pushing us away). Wot Ever doesn't reverse straight, or even close to straight.

 

As we enter the marina the pontoon is on the left hand side about 70ft from the entrance and at 90 degrees to it. We moor stern-in, so we have to turn to our right and then reverse back onto the far side of the pontoon. If I get the turn correct and I'm in line with the mooring then a gust of wind is guaranteed to take the bow further into the marina and have us coming at the mooring at 45 degrees or worse. Even if the wind doesn't take her, momentum will probably cause us to drift further down the marina and away from the pontoon. If I over-turn in order to compensate for the front wandering off down the marina (so that I've turned right by say 100 degrees) then the odds are that the front will continue to come around to the right instead of slowly straightening up, and then I come at the pontoon at 45 degrees the other way.

 

Quanity of ale consumed on the trip doesn't appear to affect the result one way or the other.

 

How would YOU do it?

 

Thanks,

Tony

[Naughty Cal]

The wind in our marina almost always blows at 90 degrees to the pontoons. Mostly the wind blows us into our pontoon (wind on = southerly winds) Quite a lot in the past couple of months it has been blowing us off our pontoon (wind off = northerly winds).

 

We have found that the easiest method for us if the wind is off the pontoon is to let the wind blow the boat into the neighbouring craft ensuring the boat is well fendered to avoid damage to the adacent boat and then let the boat gently lie against the neighbouring boat. Then one of us steps off with a stern rope, loop the stern rope around the rear most cleat on our pontoon, put the boat gently into forward gear, it will pull on the rope and then will gently bring itself onto its own pontoon.

 

We have found that the amount of alcohol consumed has a positive effect on boat handling up until a certain point, but then it is all downhill from their

[WotEver]

We have found that the easiest method for us if the wind is off the pontoon is to let the wind blow the boat into the neighbouring craft...

Problem is that there's only about 21ft between the pontoons, so if we're coming in at 45 degrees to the pontoon we're coming in at 45 degrees to the neighbouring craft

[Naughty Cal]

Problem is that there's only about 21ft between the pontoons, so if we're coming in at 45 degrees to the pontoon we're coming in at 45 degrees to the neighbouring craft

 

Square it up with a squirt of forwards.

 

This is the berth we have to get into with the added disadvantage of having a building 30ft from the end of the pontoon to avoid as well!!!

 

 

The Norman next door makes a very good landing stage

[Guest]

If the wind was square onto the boat it would have pushed the bow around if you turned with it rather than pushing against it. Simple really if you think about it.

 

OK last word from me on this because I'm getting a tad bored repeating myself, as I guess other folks will be too.

 

No it's not simple, because in the situation I was describing - as fast as you tried to turn the bow out of the wind, the wind was blowing the stern back straight and all was that was happening was that I was 'crabbing' across the winding hole, not turning at all......... until the point I had no room to manouvre, turn or do anything, apart from after the fourth time it happened I pivoted the boat as descibed above.

[Naughty Cal]

OK last word from me on this because I'm getting a tad bored repeating myself, as I guess other folks will be too.

 

No it's not simple, because in the situation I was describing - as fast as you tried to turn the bow out of the wind, the wind was blowing the stern back straight and all was that was happening was that I was 'crabbing' across the winding hole, not turning at all......... until the point I had no room to manouvre, turn or do anything, apart from after the fourth time it happened I pivoted the boat as descibed above.

 

You are the only one insisting the technique doesnt work. Others who have tried it say it does, maybe, just maybe, you could try it before suggesting it wont work.

 

In the situation above if the wind was that strong that the engine couldnt turn the stern, than a bow thruster wouldnt have helped. Your engine and steering gear have more power than a bow thruster.

[Guest]

You are the only one insisting the technique doesnt work. Others who have tried it say it does, maybe, just maybe, you could try it before suggesting it wont work.

 

In the situation above if the wind was that strong that the engine couldnt turn the stern, than a bow thruster wouldnt have helped. Your engine and steering gear have more power than a bow thruster.

 

OK Claire.....

[Naughty Cal]

OK Claire.....

 

Yes Bob

 

ETA: Bob, when you have tried it out let us know how you get on

Edited June 25, 2010 by Phylis

[billS]

We have found that the easiest method for us if the wind is off the pontoon is to let the wind blow the boat into the neighbouring craft

 

A mooring strategy that involves deliberately bouncing off a neighbouring boat sounds a bitt naff to me. OK - you can get away with your boat - but I suspect if you had a heavy steel boat, you neighbour would not be too happy!

 

Now in this scenario you could reverse up to your berth at an angle, tie off the stern, touch of left bowthruster to bring the bow alongside and job done.

[paulcatchpole]

Yes Bob

 

ETA: Bob, when you have tried it out let us know how you get on

 

Aw, you're quite the cute couple, you know...

 

PC

 

Just joking! :lol:

[nb Innisfree]

Yes i have witnessed your boat handling and YOU made it look anything but simple

 

Why don't you just kick me in the nuts and be done with it?

 

Don't know if you were aware but we were stirring up a load of what looked like deer antlers