To thrust or not to thrust

[mykaskin]

Or you could, like the bloke I met on Sunday, be sitting quite nicely waiting to the side of the canal the other side of a narrows, and just as I come along in Victoria, hit the button and put the bow directly in front of my boat. It's a good job Victoria stopped quickly otherwise I would have pushed him back to the marina he probably just came out of!

 

Bow thrusters are only any use if you know how to use one!

 

Mike

Edited June 22, 2010 by mykaskin

[billS]

Envy or incredulity?

 

Richard

 

Well you do need to engage reverse gear much less often in order to perform some manoeuvers.

 

I guess at one time ability to engage a reverse gear in order to aid maneouvering would have been greeted with incredulity.

 

technology eh? - they will have parking sensors on boats next!

[blackrose]

Ous are only 25ft single engined ones, the chap in question had their bigger twin engined sister at 30ft.

 

Size is irrelevant, you can either handle your boat or you cant.

 

Yes, you can either handle your boat or you can't, but in this discussion size is very relevant because all other things being equal, the bigger the boat the more difficult it may be to handle alone.

 

You're welcome to come and move my 32 tonne boat and you will immediatly feel the difference in terms of size, weight and momentum.

[Naughty Cal]

They have their uses, and if money is not an issue, I would put one in - especially if you intend single handing.

 

As others have said, they are no substitute for being able to steer properly, but they do make some manoeuvers easy.

 

- reversing - you can effectively steer the boat in reverse with the occasional blip of the bowthruster

- leaving a mooring - push the back out, touch of bow thruster and you are 8 feet out and parallel with the bank ready to move forward

- winding is quicker

- manoeuvering in a strong crosswind

 

you will take a lot of stick for "cheating" from the people without bowthrusters, but envy is never pretty!

 

All of those manouvres can easily be performed with the aid of forward gear, reverse gear, using the wind to your advantage and where necessary a line ashore.

[blackrose]

Bow thrusters are only any use if you know how to use one!

 

As is the case with any other piece of equipment.

[NB Alnwick]

Well you do need to engage reverse gear much less often in order to perform some manoeuvers.

 

I guess at one time ability to engage a reverse gear in order to aid maneouvering would have been greeted with incredulity.

 

technology eh? - they will have parking sensors on boats next!

 

You mean that you haven't already got parking sensors? How do you manage to steer into a lock without them

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, you can either handle your boat or you can't, but in this discussion size is very relevant because all other things being equal, the bigger the boat the more difficult it may be to handle alone.

 

You're welcome to come and move my 32 tonne boat and you will immediatly feel the difference in terms of size, weight and momentum.

 

You are also more than welcome to come and have a go in Cal. You will immediately see how you added weight and size may also be an advantage at times.

[RLWP]

You mean that you haven't already got parking sensors? How do you manage to steer into a lock without them

 

We have two similar to this:

 

 

Richard

[Keeping Up]

Two extremes:

 

1. a few years ago we travelled for a short while and through a few locks with someone who used their bow thruster ALL the time (and I do mean ALL) including while the two of us were ascending in wide GU locks, and all along the pounds between them. The steerer said she'd tried that rudder thing but couldn't get on with it, so now only ever used the bow thruster.

 

2. A couple of years ago we went up Hatton with a boat that had both bow and stern thrusters. We only used one bottom gate; when they went in first, she pushed both levers and moved sideways. When I went in first I pivoted with the bow on the cill for the same effect. Intrigued, the steerer of the other boat asked me to demonstrate how to do that, then she turned off her thrusters and practiced it until she could manage perfectly well without them.

 

Personally I'd never have a bow thruster. The only times I've ever been put into really dangerous situations through no stupidity of my own, have been when bow thrusters have failed at a critical moment. Yes there have been occasions when I've thought "right now I wish I had a bowthruster" but they've been rare and haven't lasted long.

[WotEver]

... its well known that a glider pilot can fly powerd much more skillfully than a power pilot whos never glided.

Is it?

 

I've flown both, including Stampes and Tiger Moths and I'd like to see any glider pilot step into a biplane for the first time and handle it as well as someone who learned on one. When I took my first ever gliding lesson the instructor was very complimentary about my skills and couldn't understand why I had such a good 'feel'. When I told him that I learned to fly in G-ACDC at the Tiger Club in Redhill he said "Ahh, that explains it".

 

Tony

 

technology eh? - they will have parking sensors on boats next!

Ooh, ooh, where can I get some?

[blackrose]

All of those manouvres can easily be performed with the aid of forward gear, reverse gear, using the wind to your advantage and where necessary a line ashore.

 

Or they could even be performed with no engine at all and just a sail and a rudder if you were so inclined.

 

We don't need engines, inverters, battery chargers, solar panels, etc, etc, but the point is that some of us choose to have these items. I don't usually see the discussion becoming so anti-equipment when it comes to these things.

 

You are also more than welcome to come and have a go in Cal. You will immediately see how you added weight and size may also be an advantage at times.

 

Ive steered light GRP cruisers, to me it seems very easy compared to a big steel barge.

Edited June 22, 2010 by blackrose

[NB Alnwick]

Is it?

 

I've flown both, including Stampes and Tiger Moths and I'd like to see any glider pilot step into a biplane for the first time and handle it as well as someone who learned on one. When I took my first ever gliding lesson the instructor was very complimentary about my skills and couldn't understand why I had such a good 'feel'. When I told him that I learned to fly in G-ACDC at the Tiger Club in Redhill he said "Ahh, that explains it".

 

Tony

 

But I've never seen a biplane with a bowthruster . . .

[billS]

All of those manouvres can easily be performed with the aid of forward gear, reverse gear, using the wind to your advantage and where necessary a line ashore.

 

Yes - in a 25 ft cruiser with an outdrive

 

They can also be performed in a narrowboat - but not always so easily, especially when single handling. A bow thruster is just another tool. I remember similar arguments when power steering started to become available - loss of feel for the road etc. Would you eschew power steering on a large car?

[charles123]

Go for a bow thruster, dont just fit the tube as I supect people who do rarely get round to fitting the thruster. You are having a wider boat all the more reason for having one. One of the bigest benefits of having one is to give you a quick push off the side when leaving a mooring, yes you can do that yourself and step back on, or a crew member can if you have one but its so much more convenient to press a switch

 

Charles

[WotEver]

But I've never seen a biplane with a bowthruster . . .

Graham, you've not been looking closely enough

[Naughty Cal]

Yes - in a 25 ft cruiser with an outdrive

 

They can also be performed in a narrowboat - but not always so easily, especially when single handling. A bow thruster is just another tool. I remember similar arguments when power steering started to become available - loss of feel for the road etc. Would you eschew power steering on a large car?

 

We dont have power steering on our large car but then again it is a 1985 car so we wouldnt expect it. The weight of the big lump up front (2.8 V6) and the lack of power steering can be very helpful at times when you need to have a feel of what the car is about to do.

 

There are many boat owners who can happily and easily place a 70ft narrowboat anywhere they like without the aid of bow thrusters.

[barge sara]

- they will have parking sensors on boats next!

 

Parking sensors all round connected to the bow and stern thruster controls.

The boat will then automatically avoid all other objects without any intervention from the helmsman.

Narrowboating will no longer be a contact sport!

Perfect!

[RLWP]

Yes - in a 25 ft cruiser with an outdrive

 

They can also be performed in a narrowboat - but not always so easily, especially when single handling. A bow thruster is just another tool. I remember similar arguments when power steering started to become available - loss of feel for the road etc. Would you eschew power steering on a large car?

 

 

The loss of feel for the road may well have been true at the time, there have been improvements in power steering since then

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

Go for a bow thruster, dont just fit the tube as I supect people who do rarely get round to fitting the thruster. You are having a wider boat all the more reason for having one. One of the bigest benefits of having one is to give you a quick push off the side when leaving a mooring, yes you can do that yourself and step back on, or a crew member can if you have one but its so much more convenient to press a switch

 

Charles

 

And its a damn sight cheaper to employ the help of your legs or a crew member than to fit a bow thruster that will be broken if/when you happen to need it

 

 

The loss of feel for the road may well have been true at the time, there have been improvements in power steering since then

 

Richard

 

Yes like variable power assisstance. Great when it is working, not so good when like mine, it has a habit of forgetting what it should be doing

[billS]

You mean that you haven't already got parking sensors? How do you manage to steer into a lock without them

Well 30 years of boat handling experience helps.

 

I have owned boats without bowthrusters, and never having used them I tended to regard them as un-necessary. My current boat had one already fitted and I find it useful - especially when single handing.

 

If I buy another second hand narrowboat - it would not be on my list of "must haves"- unlike a side hatch for instance, but if I were getting one built and money was not an issue, then I would specify one.

 

It doesn't make me an incompetent steerer or a bad person!

Edited June 22, 2010 by billS

[WotEver]

Somebody once dismissed them to me as "The electric windows of boating". My reply was "But I like electric windows".

 

Tony

[Naughty Cal]

Parking sensors all round connected to the bow and stern thruster controls.

The boat will then automatically avoid all other objects without any intervention from the helmsman.

Narrowboating will no longer be a contact sport!

Perfect!

 

Not sure about that judging by the amount of cars with parking sensors at the OH's place of work needing repair

[NB Alnwick]

Graham, you've not been looking closely enough

 

But I've seen some really nice biplanes - years ago, I often attended small air shows or gatherings of de Havilland Moths and was much impressed by the enjoyment that their owners quite obviously derived from them. I imagine that today the costs associated with buying and owning such an aircraft will be comparable with narrow boat ownership - I bet they even have 'shared ownership' schemes.

[barge sara]

Not sure about that judging by the amount of cars with parking sensors at the OH's place of work needing repair

 

But they rely on the human reacting to the bleep.

My idea cuts out the source of the problem.

[NB Alnwick]

Parking sensors all round connected to the bow and stern thruster controls.

The boat will then automatically avoid all other objects without any intervention from the helmsman.

Narrowboating will no longer be a contact sport!

Perfect!

 

Of course, our seagoing friends already have something like this on modern ships - the latest giant cruise liners have systems attached to accurate sat-nav devices and radar that control the engines, rudders, bow and stern thrusters et all. These systems enable the ship's computers to maintain a course or station irrespective of tides, winds or currents. But is it fun?