To thrust or not to thrust

[RLWP]

Of course, our seagoing friends already have something like this on modern ships - the latest giant cruise liners have systems attached to accurate sat-nav devices and radar that control the engines, rudders, bow and stern thrusters et all. These systems enable the ship's computers to maintain a course or station irrespective of tides, winds or currents. But is it fun?

And do they use them to moor up with?

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

And do they use them to moor up with?

 

Richard

 

No.

 

The auto pilot systems fitted to pleasure boats also have a nasty habit of directing everybody to the same waypoints. Result, a massive sea but everybody wants to be in exactly the same spot

[WotEver]

No.

 

The auto pilot systems fitted to pleasure boats also have a nasty habit of directing everybody to the same waypoints. Result, a massive sea but everybody wants to be in exactly the same spot

To (loosely) quote Dave Gunson:

 

"The sky is a big place. The odds of two aircraft occupying the same point in the sky are minute. So what Air traffic control does is to force all aircraft to fly down the same narrowly defined corridors, thereby greatly increasing the opportunity for collision and therefore justifying Air Traffic Control's existence to keep them apart"

 

Tony

 

edited for spilling

 

I bet they even have 'shared ownership' schemes.

Indeed - and have done for many years. I'd venture a guess (and it is only a guess, I have nothing to back this up with other than experience) that the majority of single engined light aircraft in the UK are owned by more than one person.

 

Tony

Edited June 22, 2010 by WotEver

[nb Innisfree]

We fitted a BT but after a few months it gave up the ghost, my fault for overheating it. Since then for the last 4 years I have learned the hard way to handle our 60' nb but occasionally a BT would be very handy such as in the bottom of a lock when the missus opens the wrong gate, it would save her crossing over and opening the other one + I used to be able to reverse indefinitely at the drop of a hat, that can be very handy.

 

Must get around to repairing it.

Edited June 22, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[blackrose]

We fitted a BT but after a few months it gave up the ghost, my fault for overheating it. Since then for the last 4 years I have learned the hard way to handle our 60' nb but occasionally a BT would be very handy such as in the bottom of a lock when the missus opens the wrong gate, it would save her crossing over and opening the other one + I used to be able to reverse indefinitely at the drop of a hat, that can be very handy.

 

Must get around to repairing it.

 

You must have a heavy finger!

 

I spoke to a bloke single handing an old 70' Dutch barge this morning which must have a BT retro-fitted. He said the BT batteries are out of power after about 5 seconds! (ok, he was exaggerating). I guess either his batteries are already knackered or there's something very wrong with the charging system.

 

My BT specifies maximum usage as about 3 minutes/hour to keep the batteries charged. It doesn't sound much but that's actually a lot more than I'd ever use. To burn out the motor you'd have to keep your finger on the button for a prolonged period. I just use mine in short blips of a couple of seconds. I think the longest I've ever used it in one go is probably around 8 seconds.

Edited June 22, 2010 by blackrose

[ChrisPy]

if, like me, you travel single-handed, and if, like me, you have to snake into your marina berth in reverse with a prevailing cross-wind through a fairly narrow gap past many delicate items of tupperware and a succession of projecting stainless/chrome bowsprits and davits that would take your head off if you happened to get in the way, a bow thruster is ESSENTIAL.

 

57x10ft.

 

at least fit the tube. the total installation cost for me was about £2000.

[Natalie Graham]

Were waterways less congested 100 yrs ago?

Were boat handling skills better back in the day?

 

2nd question; I think the answer would undoubtedly be yes.

 

1st question, I'm guessing the BCN was a bit more congested than now. It is something I have often wondered about. How busy are the canals now compared to 100 or 150 years ago? There might well be more boats and less miles of canal today, but many of those boats are moored up for months on end in marinas or on canalside moorings. Even the ones that are are moving regularly must cover a lower mileage than boats which needed to be kept working to pay their way and earn income for their owners. I wonder how the total "business" of the canals in terms of "boat-miles" or "boat-hours" or just how many boats are moving on the system at any one time.

[Naughty Cal]

if, like me, you travel single-handed, and if, like me, you have to snake into your marina berth in reverse with a prevailing cross-wind through a fairly narrow gap past many delicate items of tupperware and a succession of projecting stainless/chrome bowsprits and davits that would take your head off if you happened to get in the way, a bow thruster is ESSENTIAL.

 

57x10ft.

 

at least fit the tube. the total installation cost for me was about £2000.

 

So how would/will you go out if/when the bow thruster breaks?

[Matthew Knowles]

We dont have power steering on our large car but then again it is a 1985 car so we wouldnt expect it. The weight of the big lump up front (2.8 V6) and the lack of power steering can be very helpful at times when you need to have a feel of what the car is about to do.

 

There are many boat owners who can happily and easily place a 70ft narrowboat anywhere they like without the aid of bow thrusters.

 

How big are you? Maybe you should lay off the pies?

[Naughty Cal]

How big are you? Maybe you should lay off the pies?

 

Since when have i been a 2.8 V6 petrol engine?

[Matthew Knowles]

Since when have i been a 2.8 V6 petrol engine?

Since you started chucking out noxious smelling emissions.

[Natalie Graham]

Since you started chucking out noxious smelling emissions.

 

Definitely lay off the pies then, and stop having beans with them.

[DHutch]

Only if you design it to be (or ballast it to be) surely ?

Exactly.

- Theres narrowboats drawing four feet, and im sure many a widebeam drawing less than our 2ft9. With many being double chined to boot.

 

It may be worth having the tube installed so that you can retro fit a bow thruster if you decide you need it at a later date.

Ive never really got this.

- You have to take the boat out to fit a thruster anyway, unless you have fitted a suitable bulkhead and all the required fittings which ties you to a specific model/brand which may later not be available anyway. Hence while planning in a possibly for it (like not having a fitted water tank in the way) i see little point in putting a random tube in. Just more cost and opportunity for leaks.

 

Im planning a Schilling rudder, which in theory should do the job from the other end, but its more money to fit the tube, and I gues once i get used to not having one, I wont then need one retro fitting as and when.

We have a BT in emilyanne and never use it. Tom put it because he was worried as it was a retirement boat and at 22ton heavier than most narrowboats of the time but he's now 82 and still doesnt really use it, even when single handing.

If nothing else, at 3kva its really only useful in relatively tame conditions, where other options are available.

If your really thinking of doing it, i would be considering a hydrolic transmission, with trolling valve, hydro BT, and genset. But thats a diffrent boat.

 

We did how add the Schilling rudder four years ago, which has been good, and of cause used daily.

 

I put most of my knowledge on the topic, with a cad rendering of our rudder, on wikipedia when i wrote the shilling article.

 

The only thing ive ever really used a BT for is reversing a half mile single handy. Ive done that once far (im 23, boats 20)

 

 

Daniel

[Naughty Cal]

Ive never really got this.

- You have to take the boat out to fit a thruster anyway, unless you have fitted a suitable bulkhead and all the required fittings which ties you to a specific model/brand which may later not be available anyway. Hence while planning in a possibly for it (like not having a fitted water tank in the way) i see little point in putting a random tube in. Just more cost and opportunity for leaks.

 

Because at construction stage the tube costs around £150 to fit (accoring to the OP). To retro fit one at a later date is much more expensive.

[RLWP]

Because at construction stage the tube costs around £150 to fit (accoring to the OP). To retro fit one at a later date is much more expensive.

 

But how do you know you have the right size tube for a bowthruster that you haven't got? Also, what do you do about the fittings for the non-existant bowthruster? In reality all you are doing is fitting a tube across the boat that you can't paint the inside of

 

Richard

[Daio]

65 posts on one topic in 7 hours! Obviously total agreement all round then! No, I haven't read most of them

[Maffi]

I can reverse my boat a mile or more and frequently do. I can do it with opr without a BT. Its nice to do it without but some days I just cant be arsed and so use the BT. It is not a sin. It is not a cop out. It is not girlie. It is simple logic. The electric boat pole is handy when you have had a long trip and just want to get the last bit over and done wth without too much hassle.

[blackrose]

But how do you know you have the right size tube for a bowthruster that you haven't got? Also, what do you do about the fittings for the non-existant bowthruster? In reality all you are doing is fitting a tube across the boat that you can't paint the inside of

 

Richard

 

A builder would always determine which size and model of thruster is suitable for the boat before the tunnel is put in. Therefore it's not a random tunnel - at least it shouldn't be!

 

I don't know what you mean about fittings for a non-existent thruster? Presumably the correct fittings will come with the thruster when it is ordered?

 

As for not being able to paint it - why not? It only really becomes more difficult once the thruster is installed.

Edited June 22, 2010 by blackrose

[DHutch]

Because at construction stage the tube costs around £150 to fit (accoring to the OP). To retro fit one at a later date is much more expensive.

Should be stupidly different, the only addition cost i can see in doing it at a later date are wrapped up in the painting of it.

 

But how do you know you have the right size tube for a bowthruster that you haven't got? Also, what do you do about the fittings for the non-existant bowthruster? In reality all you are doing is fitting a tube across the boat that you can't paint the inside of

Exactly.

- Although the tube should be near enough the front (short enough) that you can paint it. Our is only about about 3ft long, thrust in center.

[Naughty Cal]

Should be stupidly different, the only addition cost i can see in doing it at a later date are wrapped up in the painting of it.

 

It is much easier to include an item into the initial build stage of a project than to at a later date retro fit said item. The builder at build stage can work around the tube whereas fitting it at a later date is a time consuming and also expensive process. The painting of it is the least of the troubles.

[ChrisPy]

So how would/will you go out if/when the bow thruster breaks?

how would/will you go forwards if/when your engine/s fail/s?

 

The only possible answer to your question is that I will make a risk assessment to decide if it is safe to proceed and mitigate the extent of the hazards by implementing appropriate precautions, and if it fails in mid-flight I will shut down and fend off, calling for help, to avoid expensive damage. Is that helpful?

 

PS:

When I have owned various pieces of over-powered tupperware from time to time over the past 40 years I haven't needed a thruster either.

When I drove a 300 tonne dumb barge with a retro-fitted 40hp engine every day in Valletta Grand Harbour with plenty of sea-room I didn't need a bow thruster.

I didn't presume to patronise people with large, heavy, poor-handling boats in constricted situations.

[Naughty Cal]

how would/will you go forwards if/when your engine/s fail/s?

 

The only possible answer to your question is that I will make a risk assessment to decide if it is safe to proceed and mitigate the extent of the hazards by implementing appropriate precautions, and if it fails in mid-flight I will shut down and fend off, calling for help, to avoid expensive damage. Is that helpful?

 

PS:

When I have owned various pieces of over-powered tupperware from time to time over the past 40 years I haven't needed a thruster either.

When I drove a 300 tonne dumb barge with a retro-fitted 40hp engine every day in Valletta Grand Harbour with plenty of sea-room I didn't need a bow thruster.

I didn't presume to patronise people with large, heavy, poor-handling boats in constricted situations.

 

When the props locked together after they where wrongly fitted (one was back to front somehow) the engine had enough grunt to get us out of the mooring heading for the restauant before stalling. This left us with a predicament, hit the chinese balcony with the anchor or rails possible injuring the person eating their lunch, or lasoo the boat adjacent to ours and pull ourself in. Obviously we went for the latter, no amount of risk assessment would have helped.

 

I am not patronising people who insist on using bow thrusters, neither is anyone else who says that bow thrusters are unneccessary. Boats have been coming in and out of tight berths for years before bow thusters where invented, which kind of tells you that bow thrusters are not a necessary piece of equipment. If your boat handles so poorly that it can not be used without the aid of the bow thruster than i suggest you have a claim with the boat builder.

[ChrisPy]

If your boat handles so poorly that it can not be used without the aid of the bow thruster than i suggest you have a claim with the boat builder.

................. which just confirms that you don't have a clue about what I and some others are talking about.

You couldn't, because you have not assessed my mooring situation.

 

 

I wish I was still as cock-sure now about everything that I pretended to have knowledge of, as I was when I was your age.

[Naughty Cal]

................. which just confirms that you don't have a clue about what I and some others are talking about.

You couldn't, because you have not assessed my mooring situation.

 

So you cant possibly leave your mooring without the aid of your bow thuster?

 

I seriously hope it keeps breaking so that i and the rest of the boating community never have to come across you and your boat. Despite the fact that many narrowboat owners on here have also confirmed that there is no need for them, you still insist it is necessary for you to use your boat. It isnt just me, a point which you also seem to be ignoring.

[alan_fincher]

I wish I was still as cock-sure now about everything that I pretended to have knowledge of, as I was when I was your age.

Really ?

 

Why on earth would anyone wish that ?