Slow revving engines

[Liam]

I think this was probably meant to run at slow revs... but...

 

[carlt]

They look like something out of my Grandad's rusty old Ford Zephry

The straight six Zephyr engine was a lovely lump, in its day.

[Timleech]

I was joking It will be a moving cam thing is it]

 

Yes, I didn't for a moment think you were serious

 

It's a 2-stroke, the only cams are for the air start gear.

 

Edit to add that there are of course fuel pump cams, but these are designed to work in both directions.

 

Tim

Edited May 6, 2010 by Timleech

[Pluto]

Alternative musical approaches to hot bulb engines can be found

,

and

.

 

David

On the L&LC, boatmen used to step dance whilst steering to keep warm. The introduction of steam engines, and subsequently Widdops, made it easier by providing a regular beat. There is a video of Bill Gibbons, a boatmen who had step danced all his life, performing on PARBOLD when he was 80.

[NB Alnwick]

Of course it may have been any number of engines, reconditioned or otherwise, many old engines find their way into new builds.

 

My JP2 sounds sweet at tickover (and full power!):

 

 

(Note: There is no silencer on my JP2, it was removed by a previous owner who thought it was too quite! :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

That's a very healthy sounding JP2 - nice looking boat too! Have you had the boat's sign-writing done yet?

 

We count ourselves lucky in having inherited a Kelvin K3 that usually runs at between 140 rpm and 300 rpm - click on the following link to hear it running:

 

http://www.grahamoliver.com/alnwick/alnwick.htm#engine

 

The K3 is a proper marine engine and ours was originally installed in a barge that plied between the Thames and Ipswich. The present installation was carried out with the benefit of guidance and advice from the engine's designer, George Bergius.

 

If we were restoring an old working boat we would try and keep or replicate the engine (or one of the engines) installed during its working days but failing that a marine version of Lister/Blackstone JP2 or JP3 complete with its original gearbox would be an excellent choice.

[BEngo]

That's a very healthy sounding JP2 - nice looking boat too! Have you had the boat's sign-writing done yet?

 

We count ourselves lucky in having inherited a Kelvin K3 that usually runs at between 140 rpm and 300 rpm - click on the following link to hear it running:

 

http://www.grahamoliver.com/alnwick/alnwick.htm#engine

 

The K3 is a proper marine engine and ours was originally installed in a barge that plied between the Thames and Ipswich. The present installation was carried out with the benefit of guidance and advice from the engine's designer, George Bergius.

 

If we were restoring an old working boat we would try and keep or replicate the engine (or one of the engines) installed during its working days but failing that a marine version of Lister/Blackstone JP2 or JP3 complete with its original gearbox would be an excellent choice.

 

 

Pedant mode ON

 

I believe the K's, and everything up to the P's were designed by Walter Bergius, not George. The P's were designed by a Mr Petter, who was poached from one of the other big companies to design something more modern looking. He was apparently related to the Petter who designed the Canberra and had a big hand in the EE Lightning.

 

Pedant Mode OFF

 

N

[billh]

Ford Mermaids. 6 cylinder 128 bhp.

 

When the RNLI replaced the Petrol Weyburns, most got 6 pot Gardners.

 

Mine, however, had already been re-engined with Parsons Barracudas so missed out on the Gardners and got the Mermaids at a later date

 

She got the Barracudas because she was based on the West coast of Ireland so worked much greater distances, than most, deep into the Atlantic (hence the 2x200 gallon fuel tanks, too).

 

Oh and they are proper engines.

My brother in law's L/B has Parsons Marlin engines- how do these differ from Barracudas or Mermaid? Same basic Ford engine isn't it? I heard that the RNLI couldn't afford Gardners at the time , so Fords were the budget option. The fuel consumption is a major consideration these days.

The engines have two starting methods- normal electric and Bryce "Handraulic" - the latter involves hand pumping a hydraulic system to 4000psi- not for the faint hearted!

Bill

[bargemast]

I think this was probably meant to run at slow revs... but...

 

 

 

You must be brave and cold blooded to stay next to this engine that will surely explode if you let it run, until it finally stops, which must have been a huge relief.

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

My brother in law's L/B has Parsons Marlin engines- how do these differ from Barracudas or Mermaid? Same basic Ford engine isn't it? I heard that the RNLI couldn't afford Gardners at the time , so Fords were the budget option. The fuel consumption is a major consideration these days.

The engines have two starting methods- normal electric and Bryce "Handraulic" - the latter involves hand pumping a hydraulic system to 4000psi- not for the faint hearted!

Bill

 

The Handraulic system is good, provided you have a bit of patience. On the larger model, you pump for five minutes or so, and then have one attempt which is supposed to give 2.5 turns on the crankshaft. If that doesn't work, it's another five minutes pumping, etc. The smaller model uses the same pump etc and will give about 3 'starts' from one lot of pumping.

 

Handraulic gear in this pic, on the auxiliary set in the same vessel as my other pics above.

Oil reservoir with Nitrogen-filled gas spring directly below it and pressure gauge beside, immediately to the left of the ladder. The 'motor' is the fairly nondescript horizontal mucky silvery bit seen between the ladder rungs, to the left of the air compressor.

 

 

Tim

[carlt]

My brother in law's L/B has Parsons Marlin engines- how do these differ from Barracudas or Mermaid? Same basic Ford engine isn't it? I heard that the RNLI couldn't afford Gardners at the time , so Fords were the budget option. The fuel consumption is a major consideration these days.

The engines have two starting methods- normal electric and Bryce "Handraulic" - the latter involves hand pumping a hydraulic system to 4000psi- not for the faint hearted!

Bill

I'm no engine anorak so I'm not the man to ask.

 

I do know that the Barracudas, that were in mine, were 75bhp, the Mermaids are 128 bhp and the Marlins, that I know about, were 47 bhp.

[NB Alnwick]

Pedant mode ON

 

I believe the K's, and everything up to the P's were designed by Walter Bergius, not George. The P's were designed by a Mr Petter, who was poached from one of the other big companies to design something more modern looking. He was apparently related to the Petter who designed the Canberra and had a big hand in the EE Lightning.

 

Pedant Mode OFF

 

N

 

To be really pedantic, it is true that the 'K' series engines were originally conceived by Walter MacDonald Bergius - probably with some considerable assistance from his son, George, and from Harry Ricardo. Nevertheless, Walter died in 1949 and by the time that our engine was built in 1955, George had taken over and had introduced a modified version of the 'K' series engines - of which our engine is an example. Admittedly the modifications were very minor but I think it is reasonable to say that those built from 1950 onwards were built under the supervision of George.

 

The 'P' series engines were designed by William Miller who was previously employed by Petters. Although he may subsequently have joined the Diesel Engine Division of English Electric when Kelvin was absorbed in 1966, I do not believe he was ever involved with aircraft design.

 

I think you may be thinking of William Edward Willoughby Petter CBE (nicknamed 'Teddy'), who was English Electric's chief aircraft designer and joined the company from Westland Aircraft Ltd during the Second World War - he was not involved with the design of diesel engines but I think he was the son or nephew of the man who developed the Petter Engine concern and Westland Aircraft.

Edited May 6, 2010 by NB Alnwick

[PaddingtonBear]

Bloody hell, you boys know some things don't you, no point in us lesser mortals trying. Might as well have a *eta (sorry Wriggle)

[mykaskin]

That's a very healthy sounding JP2 - nice looking boat too! Have you had the boat's sign-writing done yet?

 

£2,700 spent at Tony Redshaws after this video was taken suggests otherwise! New heads, new cyclinder liners, reconned fuel pump plus other bits and peices but as a testiment to the engine she kept going nicely! It sounds really sweet now.

 

Sign writting is all done, some nice pictures taken at Cavalcade show it, but here are a couple also:

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[springy]

<snip>

It's a 2-stroke, the only cams are for the air start gear.

 

Edit to add that there are of course fuel pump cams, but these are designed to work in both directions.

 

Tim

 

Is it Direct reversing - i.e. fuel pump timing is identical in forward or reverse (as per Bolinder)

or Reversible - i.e. fuel pump timing is changed depending on rotation (as per for example

a rather large 3 cyl petter 2 stroke I have seen) ?

 

what breed & vintage is it anyway ?

 

springy

[sueb]

Apparently you can run RNs on old engine oil to save money

Sue

[casper ghost]

Apparently you can run RNs on old engine oil to save money

Sue

 

My Ruston manual says it can be run on diesel, old engine oil or paraffin.. Not sure how happy i'd be putting the used oil from my car into it though..

[ditchcrawler]

My brother in law's L/B has Parsons Marlin engines- how do these differ from Barracudas or Mermaid? Same basic Ford engine isn't it? I heard that the RNLI couldn't afford Gardners at the time , so Fords were the budget option. The fuel consumption is a major consideration these days.

The engines have two starting methods- normal electric and Bryce "Handraulic" - the latter involves hand pumping a hydraulic system to 4000psi- not for the faint hearted!

Bill

You can fit a belt driven pump so once the engine is running it pumps the accumulator up ready for the next start.

[Timleech]

Is it Direct reversing - i.e. fuel pump timing is identical in forward or reverse (as per Bolinder)

or Reversible - i.e. fuel pump timing is changed depending on rotation (as per for example

a rather large 3 cyl petter 2 stroke I have seen) ?

 

what breed & vintage is it anyway ?

 

springy

 

Surely the fuel pump timing will need to be the same in either rotation anyway? I realise there may be different ways to achieve that end.

It uses the same cams for both directions, all rotary motions (unlike the Bolinder) up to the fuel pump plungers, & no fancy timing shift AFAIAA.

 

Crossley HR4, 1948.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

I'm no engine anorak so I'm not the man to ask.

 

I do know that the Barracudas, that were in mine, were 75bhp, the Mermaids are 128 bhp and the Marlins, that I know about, were 47 bhp.

 

Are those like Plymouth Baccarudas?

 

babararacucudada?

 

Richard

[charles123]

Nice videos Mike, enjoyed watching them, the JP2 does sound good without the silencing, picture quality of the videos is better than most you see on youtube, anything special you do?

 

Charles

[Justin Smith]

Of course it may have been any number of engines, reconditioned or otherwise, many old engines find their way into new builds.

 

My JP2 sounds sweet at tickover (and full power!):

 

 

(Note: There is no silencer on my JP2, it was removed by a previous owner who thought it was too quite! :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

 

That sounds bleedin` great.

I`m not sure I`d want to run it with no silencer though !

What speed does the boat do on tickover ?

Is there an economy penalty compared with a conventional type engine ?

Can any of the slow revving type engines fit under the rear decking ?

Edited May 8, 2010 by Justin Smith

[paddy r]

we have a HWR2 everyone say how nice it sounds as we go past,there are days when i wish we had a moden engine with travel power and NO PROP WALK!!!!!!!!!!but then i come back to the real world.

[Athy]

Can any of the slow revving type engines fit under the rear decking ?

Quite possibly (e.g. Lister SR which is slowish, or Rigas Dizelis which runs at 1,800 rpm maximum) - but most of us would not want our engine to be hidden away. It would be so hard to reach with the Brasso and rag apart from anything else!

[soldthehouse]

Of course it may have been any number of engines, reconditioned or otherwise, many old engines find their way into new builds.

 

My JP2 sounds sweet at tickover (and full power!):

 

 

(Note: There is no silencer on my JP2, it was removed by a previous owner who thought it was too quite! :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

What can I say, that video is heaven to engineaholics like me, and the amount of detail squeezed into 21/2 mins great, thanks. Is that deep whine near the end the gearbox, I hope its a mechanical box like i'm fitting and mine sounds like it, Thanks again for posting a great video..

 

Stuart

[Justin Smith]

Quite possibly (e.g. Lister SR which is slowish, or Rigas Dizelis which runs at 1,800 rpm maximum) - but most of us would not want our engine to be hidden away. It would be so hard to reach with the Brasso and rag apart from anything else!

 

It`s probably doubtful we`ll ever buy a boat, though not totally out of the question, but if we did we`d definitely want a reverse layout, i.e. with the kitchen/living quarters next to the stern. That would only be possible if the engine was under the decking ?