Bow thruster..

[blackrose]

leave them be, Mike, they are just a bunch of snobs in their own way

Yes, Once the bowthruster Taliban work themselves up into this orgy of invective there's no stopping them and any reasoned debate goes out the window.

[carlt]

Yes, Once the bowthruster Taliban work themselves up into this orgy of invective there's no stopping them and any reasoned debate goes out the window.

Funnily enough I only see two people posting anything silly, against bow thrusters, neither of them have posted anything today, on this thread.

 

The majority are merely offering reasoned debate.

 

The fact is there is absolutely no need for a bow thruster but they can make life more convenient.

 

I wouldn't have one but, then again, I wouldn't have an electric can opener, either.

Edited June 9, 2009 by carlt

[Trilby Tim]

Could just fit a kitchen rudder

[blackrose]

I really can't follow this logic at all.

 

I neither have, nor need, air brakes on either of my cars.

 

If, however, I was called upon to drive a large articulated lorry, I would certainly want them, and would refuse to drive it if it relied only on the same braking systems as my cars.

 

You are not, in my view, even comparing apples and pears - more like grapes and melons.

 

I wonder if lorries always had air brakes Alan?

And by the same token, commercial vessels didn't used to have bow thrusters either so they're not strictly necessary on these vessels either if the Captain posesses the requisite skills. However I'm sure most would chose to have them and I very much doubt that there is any need for them to justify using their BT.

Just because things were once done a certain way doesn't mean its got to be done the same way in perpetuity. If someone wants to continue a tradition that's fine, but not all of us want to live that way.

When I had my first boat we used to be limited to chatting on the towpath, now we chat on internet forums too!.

I'm not one of those people who believes that canal boat traditions are sacrosanct.

 

Funnily enough I only see two people posting anything silly, against bow thrusters, neither of them have posted anything today, on this thread.

 

The majority are merely offering reasoned debate.

Yes, I've nothing against reasoned debate and didn't mean to direct my comments towards today's contributors.

Edited June 9, 2009 by blackrose

[Pluto]

Fair enough, Tim. But if the thrusters were affordable (at the time) then this could mean having less crew - less crew would then equate to less running cost. And, equally, it could probably also mean the use of a less skilled crew. So probably cheaper there, too.

A friend in Germany operated a 1300 tonne boat with just his wife for crew - they are retired now, so no more trips up the Main or down the Danube for me :-(. He told me that he would not have a bow thruster, just as he didn't have radar or depth sounder. If you can't get by without them, you're in major trouble when they go wrong, and coming down the Rhine gorge at night when something goes wrong is not for the inexperienced.

 

Interestingly, his boat, a 9 metre wide 1930s dumb boat with the stern cut off and his old 8.5 metre motor boat stern welded on, handled very much like a narrow boat, though with a slightly higher potential for causing damage.

[DHutch]

I did a repair on the rear of a car a while back. The owner had reversed into an object, forgetting that it was his BMW that had the beepers fitted and that today he was driving the Rolls......

Error!

 

I saw an E-type jag in the ditch on my way back from the boat on sunday in the rain. Without wishing to jump to conclusions you get the feeling (from where it was) that the owner had also maybe forgotten which car he was in, and that this one didnt have ABS fitted!

 

 

We have a bow thruster on emilyanne, which my grandad fitted 20 years ago as he was worried he might stuggled to handle 22tonnes of narrowboat at some point during his retirement. Currently, with my grandad aged 80, it gets around a minutes use (a good 30secs each way) at the start of every year (whether it needs it or not!) to make sure it works. Except during the two years it was broken and no one felt a need to repair it untill it was next convient.

 

That said, this year he has been doing a lot more single handed boating and maybe over the next year or two it will get some use. Only time will tel, but for now, i wish him the best of health and am very happy that while he still seams able to boat, that there is a little helping hand should the time come when its raining hard and the bows swung out from the bank during a slightly bungled mooring attemt and clambering on the roof with the pole seams like a job for some else!

 

 

So in summary as you say. The're basicaly totally unnessary. But pottentially could be usefull on quiet waters for the more older or less well abled.

 

 

Daniel

[Hairy-Neil]

So in summary as you say. The're basicaly totally unnessary. But pottentially could be usefull on quiet waters for the more older or less well abled.

 

 

Daniel

 

Or for girls....

[Chertsey]

Or for girls....

Ahem.

 

I would write more, but my arm's too tired.

Edited June 9, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[Martin Kedian]

Ahem.

 

I would write more, but my arm's too tired.

 

A bow thruster is a very expensive piece of 3 inch round wood

[David Schweizer]

I reckon people like you lot were around during the introduction of the diesel engine on boats too. Can you imagine the rumpus? Luddites have been around well before the Luddites, probably since the first ape used a rock to crack a nut.

 

So would someone (who either is or isn't homophobic) please explain to us why lots of commercial boats now have bow thrusters?

Presumably their captains or skippers have no boat handling ability? Or as someone said, is it ok to have a BT if you already know what you're doing?

But then surely you wouldn't need one? So why do they have them?

Ok commercial boats are generally a lot bigger, but then the principal is the same.

Perhaps one of you fingerwagging judgemental types could enlighten us all.

You are quite correct in stating that many (but by no means all) commercial craft have bow thrusters, along with a lot of other equipment to aid navigation, but the Captains will also be required to demonstate how well they can handle their craft without these aids, when taking their Examinations for thier Master's Licence.

 

I went through all that ten years ago, and was quite impressed to learn how thorough the handling skills assessment was.

[Tam & Di]

You are quite correct in stating that many (but by no means all) commercial craft have bow thrusters, along with a lot of other equipment to aid navigation, but the Captains will also be required to demonstate how well they can handle their craft without these aids, when taking their Examinations for thier Master's Licence.

 

What commercial craft are we actually talking about here? I would guess it is not those floating about on the majority of the UK canal system, where man-overboard drill involves putting your wellies on.

 

Once a boat is operating in water which is too deep for practical use of a boatpole there may well be good reasons for having some mechanical alternative.

 

When they are put to use as an alternative to steering I find it rather sad, as it demeans the art of boating. Perhaps if there were another term for driving a boat with thrusters .......... "I'm taking the boat out for a quick thrust this weekend" ???

Edited June 10, 2009 by Tam & Di

[carlt]

When they are put to use as an alternative to steering I find it rather sad, as it demeans the art of boating.

But how many boat owners are actually interested in "the art of boating"?

 

When I say that it is possible to turn a full length narrow boat, almost on its own axis (without a BT), the majority of people say it isn't and you must stuff your bows into the winding hole bank, drag it round by a rope or switch from reverse to forward, full throttle, to turn a boat.

 

It is possible to do some pretty nifty moves, with those big heavy lumps, but few people are interested in learning because it isn't necessary.

[Naughty Cal]

It is possible to do some pretty nifty moves, with those big heavy lumps, but few people are interested in learning because it isn't necessary.

 

How long before auto-pilot makes it to narrowboats because driving/steering isnt necessary?

[carlt]

How long before auto-pilot makes it to narrowboats because driving/steering isnt necessary?

It is necessary. There are too many things to hit, in a narrow channel (doncha know) to do away with steering an inland waterways boat, even at 4 miles an hour.

[Naughty Cal]

It is necessary. There are too many things to hit, in a narrow channel (doncha know) to do away with steering an inland waterways boat, even at 4 miles an hour.

 

Must be where we are going wrong

[blackrose]

You are quite correct in stating that many (but by no means all) commercial craft have bow thrusters, along with a lot of other equipment to aid navigation, but the Captains will also be required to demonstate how well they can handle their craft without these aids, when taking their Examinations for thier Master's Licence.

 

I went through all that ten years ago, and was quite impressed to learn how thorough the handling skills assessment was.

Yes, I think I already said that commercial skippers are highly skilled and qualified..

Edited June 10, 2009 by blackrose

[blackrose]

A bow thruster is a very expensive piece of 3 inch round wood

Try using a pole at the bow when you're single-handed and steering from the stern. I've done it but it tends to mean leaving the tiller which may present its own handling issues.

Edited June 10, 2009 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

Try using a pole at the bow when you're single-handed and steering from the stern. I've done it but it tends to mean leaving the tiller which may present its own handling issues.

Longer pole ?

[blackrose]

What commercial craft are we actually talking about here? I would guess it is not those floating about on the majority of the UK canal system

Well, since the majority of the UK canal network no longer carries much commercial traffic that's probably correct by default. However, who knows what the situation woukd be if there was more modern commercial traffic? The gravel barges that regularly ply their trade not far from me, between Hayes and Bulls Bridge on the Southern Grand Union Canal do have bow thrusters.

Edited June 10, 2009 by blackrose

[churchward]

We don't have a bow thruster on our boat and seem to get by without it OK and as time goes by I have learned more about maneuvering in various conditions and still learning of course. I have used a boat with a bow thruster though and can see it's value when in tricky windy conditions. It can be a struggle to reverse into our mooring (so that the hatch is the correct side for unloading) when windy but is manageable with best beloved on the front of the boat to keep the wind from doing it's worst. So I can see a benefit for single handers.

 

I do smile though when I see people using them for general steering. One chap was using his thrusters to get his boat round a tight bend on the GU/Oxford just up from Braunston toward Napton which there was no need for. It can also be a bit of pain when someone you have shared a lock with uses them just as I am moving out of the lock. I guess the chap was trying to stop his bow going against my boat as I left the lock but the blast of his thruster hit the counter. The water flow pushed my counter against the lock gates as I went out.

[blackrose]

It can also be a bit of pain when someone you have shared a lock with uses them just as I am moving out of the lock. I guess the chap was trying to stop his bow going against my boat as I left the lock but the blast of his thruster hit the counter. The water flow pushed my counter against the lock gates as I went out.

Had you considered that he might have done it deliberately?

 

Actually the same thing happened to me while I was tying my centre rope to a bollard just above Cowley lock. A big gravel barge pulled up on the other side of the canal and used his thruster to keep the bow in. These boats have very powerful hydraulic thrusters and even from the other side of the canal it knocked my 32 tonne widebeam about like it was made of balsa wood. I don't think my Vetus 95kgf would compete.

[furnessvale]

I do smile though when I see people using them for general steering. One chap was using his thrusters to get his boat round a tight bend on the GU/Oxford just up from Braunston toward Napton which there was no need for.

 

In similar circumstances at Sutton Stop I'm afraid I didn't smile. A howling gale had battered us against the outside against the sanitary point. I nipped off with the elsan while the next boat came round overtaking us. I heard the bowthruster pulling him round and thought nothing of it. When I got back to the boat I found my wife very distressed.

 

Apparently this "superior" boater had been very abusive saying she shouldn't have a big boat if she didn't know how to steer it. It was Rugby when I caught him. I responded in kind and promised him an early bath if he ever spoke to my wife again.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Billypownall]

In similar circumstances at Sutton Stop I'm afraid I didn't smile. A howling gale had battered us against the outside against the sanitary point. I nipped off with the elsan while the next boat came round overtaking us. I heard the bowthruster pulling him round and thought nothing of it. When I got back to the boat I found my wife very distressed.

 

Apparently this "superior" boater had been very abusive saying she shouldn't have a big boat if she didn't know how to steer it. It was Rugby when I caught him. I responded in kind and promised him an early bath if he ever spoke to my wife again.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Sounds like your wife is easily distressed to me and you sound a bit of a thug. Whatever the provocation your attitude smacks of canal rage and two wrongs dont make a right..

[mrsmelly]

Sounds like your wife is easily distressed to me and you sound a bit of a thug. Whatever the provocation your attitude smacks of canal rage and two wrongs dont make a right..

 

I think George is Totally right, two many people out there are abusive especialy some men who pick on lone women as easy meat. If there were more Georges out there less assholes would get away with their verbal abuse. A similar situation arose recently when my wife who is in her late fifties was abused and upset by a THUG in his car after she accidently caught his wing mirror he was thirty something, I appeared on the scene somewhat later and he will think twice next time he has the opportunity to bully a woman and NO there were no fistycuffs but he new where he stood.

Good on you George

[furnessvale]

Sounds like your wife is easily distressed to me and you sound a bit of a thug. Whatever the provocation your attitude smacks of canal rage and two wrongs dont make a right..

 

The distress of my wife was real enough and I have no intention of allowing the arbiter of that to be a passing foul mouthed stranger.

 

I am happy to let others who know me judge whether I am a thug or not.

 

George ex nb Alton retired