Bow thruster..

[carlt]

Many thanks to all who posted responses relevant to my OP - you know who you are...

you're very welcome.

 

With a bow thruster you can actually steer the boat properly.

With careful use of forward and reverse gear it is possible to steer a boat, whilst moving backwards, without a bow thruster.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

With careful use of forward and reverse gear it is possible to steer a boat, whilst moving backwards, without a bow thruster.

 

Perhaps true, but with a bow thruster you can simply steer a boat in reverse gear without having to engage forward.

[carlt]

Perhaps true, but with a bow thruster you can simply steer a boat in reverse gear without having to engage forward.

I've never found changing gear a burden, though, especially when I learnt to handle 5 of them, all in the same box, in a car.

[blackrose]

QUOTE (blackrose @ Jun 5 2009, 01:48 PM) ?

As I said earlier, if you don't want one don't get one, its not like anyone is being forced to have one fitted.

 

NO, but the OP did specifically ask for people's experiences of whether or not they found them helpful/necessary.

Yes I guess that was a red rag to the bowthruster taliban.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I've never found changing gear a burden, though, especially when I learnt to handle 5 of them, all in the same box, in a car.

 

I've never used a boat with five gears. My first boat had one gear called "forwards" and subsequent boats have two gears called "forwards" and "sideways". After many years of practice I have discovered that the "sideways" gear can be used for reversing the boat but only if nobody is watching. If I have an audience I feel obliged to use the "forwards" and "sideways" gears just to make reversing look difficult.

 

Regarding reversing from winding hole to pub - this show a complete and utter lack of confidence. The man they keep in that cage in the boatyard next door would be more impressed with you reversing from pub to winding hole with six pints inside you and one in your hand.

[alan_fincher]

My first boat had one gear called "forwards" and subsequent boats have two gears called "forwards" and "sideways". After many years of practice I have discovered that the "sideways" gear can be used for reversing the boat but only if nobody is watching. If I have an audience I feel obliged to use the "forwards" and "sideways" gears just to make reversing look difficult.

 

Superb!

[nb Innisfree]

Just because you haven't seen it doen, does not mean that it cannot be done.

 

A few years ago I had to reverse the full length of the Thrupp Moorings (for Alan's benefit, on the Oxford), from the swing bridge to the bridge by the Jolly Boatman pub, a distance of nearly half a mile. Someone positioned themselves on the fore deck to steer with a pole if needed, and was surprised how little the pole had to be used, except for the bend.

 

As I have already said, it has a lot to do with the underwater shape of the hull, something whch is ignored by many modern boatbuilders.

 

 

Yes I have seen it done and done it myself with a pole pusher at the front but not without all that. With a BT you can reverse continuously without having to pause to correct with forward thrust which keeps slowing you down

[T.A]

I've never found changing gear a burden, though, especially when I learnt to handle 5 of them, all in the same box, in a car.

Yes I am sure there are a few of us out there that mastered the 5 gear box then chose to buy an automatic, not everbody feels they need to show there skill as some form of masculinity, it's different strokes for different folks!

[Dominic M]

Yes I am sure there are a few of us out there that mastered the 5 gear box then chose to buy an automatic, not everbody feels they need to show there skill as some form of masculinity, it's different strokes for different folks!

An automatic box on a boat must be useful - for example you don't have to bother tying it up when you moor - you just put the shift stick in "P". Or am I missing something?

[T.A]

An automatic box on a boat must be useful - for example you don't have to bother tying it up when you moor - you just put the shift stick in "P". Or am I missing something?

The clue is "in the car"

[Tam & Di]

To put this into perspective - my experience is that some boats are better at reversing in a straight line than others. As David suggests this is very much due to underwater shape of the hull

 

This is obviously true, and I'm sure an ex-working narrowboat is far more handy than virtually any modern equivalent. I can understand the viewpoint of a person trying to boat one-handed with a rather crude steel box with little underwater shape, that he might find a bow thruster a handy tool. We never felt the slightest need for a bow-thruster for any of the wide variety of boats we had on UK canals, but did fit one on the 24m barge we now have in France. In reality though, it gets very little use other than as instructor's over-ride during our barging courses to stop trainees bending the boat, and apart from this what rare use it does get is where a boatpole might otherwise have served (had the water been shallow enough for that).

 

What we do see though is people with their new boat over here, using the bow-thruster almost as much as they use their main engine. A child can learn to ride a bike with an outrigger to stop him falling over, but unless he gets rid of that he will never really be able to cycle properly. The trouble with learning to boat when you have a bow-thruster is that it is too expensive to want to discard it and learn to boat properly. At least electric ones do commonly burn out fairly quickly though, which I suppose is one factor in their favour.

 

A bow-thruster should be a tool that is only ever fitted after a person has learnt to boat without one. Otherwise it is a crutch or zimmer frame that prevents the person acquiring any degree of skill or competence.

[mrsmelly]

QUOTE (blackrose @ Jun 5 2009, 01:48 PM) ?

As I said earlier, if you don't want one don't get one, its not like anyone is being forced to have one fitted.

 

 

Yes I guess that was a red rag to the bowthruster taliban.

 

Blimey is this going to go on forever ? Its simple if u have no boat handling ability and cant be bothered to learn, then u buys a bowthruster much the same as if u cant reverse your car you buy the extra parking sensors kit.

Simple as that the two bits of kit make bad manouverers ( If thats a word ) into even worse ones...............Not that whats the original thread is about though

 

 

.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Dhutch
Removal of inappropriate wording

[dasboot]

A bow-thruster should be a tool that is only ever fitted after a person has learnt to boat without one. Otherwise it is a crutch or zimmer frame that prevents the person acquiring any degree of skill or competence.

The rest of the above post that I have edited out is spot on, but this final paragraph sums it up. How right and what sound advice. Bowthrusters on narrowboats in particlular are a good example of people being misled by the magazines and noit getting informed advice.

 

The magazines may seek to deny this, but the quote above says everything a newbie needs to know about BTs. I have never seen such sentiment in print in either WW or CB. Why?

[Smelly]

Only once have I perceived a need for a BT in six years living aboard with a lot of singlehanding. I was single handed & trying to get through the old electric swing bridge between Parbold and Burscough (not the new Wheat Lane one), in a gale that happened to be pushing me and my 72 foot boat that had got stuck in tunnels/under bridges due to a very high conversion against the offside where I'd stopped to open the bridge. It took me about 20 mins to get off. Then it would have been handy but I probably shouldn't have been out boating anyways...

 

OP if you're new to boating get used to doing without, maybe do what WJM's done and keep the possibility in reserve (I can see the infirmity argument's got some strength).

 

Admittedly I'm a time served Taliban member, but I think it's important to know how to use your boat in the traditional manner, we managed a couple of hundred years without.

[blackrose]

Blimey is this going to go on forever ? Its simple if u have no boat handling ability and cant be bothered to learn, then u buys a ***thruster much the same as if u cant reverse your car you buy the extra parking sensors kit.

Simple as that the two bits of kit make bad manouverers ( If thats a word ) into even worse ones...............Not that whats the original thread is about though

I reckon people like you lot were around during the introduction of the diesel engine on boats too. Can you imagine the rumpus? Luddites have been around well before the Luddites, probably since the first ape used a rock to crack a nut.

 

So would someone (who either is or isn't homophobic) please explain to us why lots of commercial boats now have bow thrusters?

Presumably their captains or skippers have no boat handling ability? Or as someone said, is it ok to have a BT if you already know what you're doing?

But then surely you wouldn't need one? So why do they have them?

Ok commercial boats are generally a lot bigger, but then the principal is the same.

Perhaps one of you fingerwagging judgemental types could enlighten us all.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Dhutch

[ChrisPy]

I reckon people like you lot were around during the introduction of the diesel engine on boats too. Can you imagine the rumpus? Luddites have been around well before the Luddites, probably since the first ape used a rock to crack a nut.

 

So would someone (who either is or isn't homophobic) please explain to us why lots of commercial boats now have bow thrusters?

Presumably their captains or skippers have no boat handling ability? Or as someone said, is it ok to have a BT if you already know what you're doing?

But then surely you wouldn't need one? So why do they have them?

Ok commercial boats are generally a lot bigger, but then the principal is the same.

Perhaps one of you fingerwagging judgemental types could enlighten us all.

leave them be, Mike, they are just a bunch of snobs in their own way

[Hairy-Neil]

A bow-thruster should be a tool that is only ever fitted after a person has learnt to boat without one. Otherwise it is a crutch or zimmer frame that prevents the person acquiring any degree of skill or competence.

 

Love it.

 

I did a repair on the rear of a car a while back. The owner had reversed into an object, forgetting that it was his BMW that had the beepers fitted and that today he was driving the Rolls......

[Timleech]

Sometimes bowthrusters are there to cover for bad boat design.

I have a 57' insurance write-off which I've converted to a workboat for my own purposes at the dry-dock

It has a completely square stern. When first collecting the boat, I brought it down Cheshire locks and then discovered why it had originally been fitted with a bt. It's impossible to steer it out of locks because of the square stern, on several occasions I had to leave a lock & then stop to push the bows away from the wall. It wasn't windy, a 'proper' boat with some shape to the stern wouldn't have had the same problem. An inexperienced boater coming to a boat like that would soon jump to the conclusion that bow thrusters are essential. :lol:

 

Tim

[Chris J W]

I reckon people like you lot were around during the introduction of the diesel engine on boats too. Can you imagine the rumpus? Luddites have been around well before the Luddites, probably since the first ape used a rock to crack a nut.

 

Prime Example

 

I'm sure that if the working boats had access to usable and reliable bow (and even stern) thrusters that made their job easier and quicker, then they've had had them fitted.

[Timleech]

I'm sure that if the working boats had access to usable and reliable bow (and even stern) thrusters that made their job easier and quicker, then they've had had them fitted.

 

I actually seriously doubt that.

Thrusters are expensive, take up power and space, and a skilled crew (you would expect working boats to have a skilled crew) would have little need of them. Why would an owner spend money on something which doesn't earn him any extra and doesn't in general speed the job?

A Narrow Boat, even a loaded pair, is of a size which can be pushed around manually if required. Once you get to significantly bigger vessels then you may well be right.

 

My view of nb bow thrusters in general is the same as that of false rivets - they're expensive, unnecessary, and often misused, but if that's how people want to spend their money then good luck to them. It's inevitable that some of us who have been around on the canals for longer than bow thrusters and false rivets will chuckle to ourselves when we see them being badly or pointlessly used.

 

Certainly there are a few instances where there's more 'need' for a thruster, such as age and infirmity.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

So would someone (who either is or isn't homophobic) please explain to us why lots of commercial boats now have bow thrusters?

Presumably their captains or skippers have no boat handling ability? Or as someone said, is it ok to have a BT if you already know what you're doing?

But then surely you wouldn't need one? So why do they have them?

Ok commercial boats are generally a lot bigger, but then the principal is the same.

Perhaps one of you fingerwagging judgemental types could enlighten us all.

I really can't follow this logic at all.

 

I neither have, nor need, air brakes on either of my cars.

 

If, however, I was called upon to drive a large articulated lorry, I would certainly want them, and would refuse to drive it if it relied only on the same braking systems as my cars.

 

You are not, in my view, even comparing apples and pears - more like grapes and melons.

 

(I declare myself as hopefully in the non-homophobic camp, by the way, if it's relevant....)

 

I have no problems with your BT though - as I have said already, I can see advantages once a boat is as big as yours.

[carlt]

It would be worth noting that many boat owners have no interest in becoming accomplished at steering their boat. They just want to have a holiday.

 

If your boat is your holiday home then why not have all the gadgets, to travel from one attraction, to the next, with minimum fuss and effort?

 

There is absolutely no need for a bow thruster, gps, electric bilge pump, inverter, multi-stage battery charger, washing machine etc etc ad nauseam, in order to have an enjoyable holiday, on a boat. Some people like them, though.

 

I don't understand the aggressive tone of some people, who don't want a BT (I don't want one, but I don't care if you want one). There seems to be no harm, in owning one.

[Chris J W]

I actually seriously doubt that.

Thrusters are expensive, take up power and space, and a skilled crew (you would expect working boats to have a skilled crew) would have little need of them. Why would an owner spend money on something which doesn't earn him any extra and doesn't in general speed the job?

A Narrow Boat, even a loaded pair, is of a size which can be pushed around manually if required. Once you get to significantly bigger vessels then you may well be right.

 

Fair enough, Tim. But if the thrusters were affordable (at the time) then this could mean having less crew - less crew would then equate to less running cost. And, equally, it could probably also mean the use of a less skilled crew. So probably cheaper there, too.

[Canalwatcher]

I don't understand the aggressive tone of some people, who don't want a BT (I don't want one, but I don't care if you want one). There seems to be no harm, in owning one.

 

Quite. I have one. I don't need one. I just find it an easier option than using a boat pole or bow rope in tight manouvering situations - especially if I am on my own.

 

It's a handy optional extra - Simples!

 

Mick

[nb Innisfree]

Quite. I have one. I don't need one. I just find it an easier option than using a boat pole or bow rope in tight manouvering situations - especially if I am on my own.

 

It's a handy optional extra - Simples!

 

Mick

 

Narrowboats are big boys' (and girls) toys and all that is in them. What else are we to do with the small amount of time we have left. BTs can be troublesome things but that is part of the fun, trying to solve/overcome problems. It is for me anyway. So there

Edited June 9, 2009 by nb Innisfree