Council tax on a boat with none residential moorings

[Brian1570]

Hi I'm currently in receipt of housing benefit they pay my river licence and mooring do I need to pay council tax if my moorings are none residential and can only stay at the moorings for 3 days a week 

[LadyG]

 Council Tax is levied on properties,  very rarely on moorings, so i can't see you paying that on your boat.

The other issue, in my mind, is this mooring which stipulates three days only,  maybe it stipulates that you are only allowed to stay on board  for three days, but the boat can remain on the mooring if not occupied 24/7.

If CRT would you declare a Home Mooring [six months contract, see CRT website under 'Licencing your boat'.

 

PS welcome to the forum, others with more knowledge may ask for even more information

PPS my questions are rhetorical rather than personal, they are factors which may affect you, and from my limited experience of the benefit system, you're very lucky to get anything!

Edited November 29 by LadyG

[Paul C]

What's your address? I mean, don't type it out, but do you have a land-based address that isn't the mooring? Its a pointer in the right direction, but ultimately its the valuation office at the council who determine if council tax is due. You'd think it were linked to planning permission, or housing benefit, or whatever, but it isn't (officially).

 

The "stay at the moorings 3 days/week" maximum rule - who sets this? Your mooring provider? It sounds like its a non-residential mooring and they apply that rule to demonstrate compliance.

[zenataomm]

What puzzles me is if you're only allowed to be on board for 3 days a week, how does that meet the criteria for housing benefit?

[LadyG]

7 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

What puzzles me is if you're only allowed to be on board for 3 days a week, how does that meet the criteria for housing benefit?

Maybe he has not been asked that exact Q, perhaps has just declared something like, " this is my main place of residence" 

 

Edited November 29 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Brian1570 said:

Hi I'm currently in receipt of housing benefit they pay my river licence and mooring do I need to pay council tax if my moorings are none residential and can only stay at the moorings for 3 days a week 

 

Council tax is (generally) levied on Residential Moorings (that have residential planning permission). The council tax is normally band A, and is based on the value of the mooring.

If the boat is 'permanently' attached (ie doesn't move at least 2x per annum) then it is rated as both the 'value of the mooring' and the 'value of the boat' combined.

[Brian1570]

Thank u for the replys I live on my boat so there for I have to move on for four days a week and then go back to the moorings 

And I need the moorings to keep CRT off my back if I'm not moving far enough 

[jonathanA]

Well it's pretty obvious that they are not residential moorings and therefore no CT is applicable. 

[Brian1570]

Thanks I don't no how to cancel the council tax if I do does that mean they won't pay for the moorings 

[Arthur Marshall]

Presumably the council tax charge is levied on the mooring which presumably they reckon is residential, and the council won't care what your landlord specifies as whether you can stay permanently on it.

If your benefits cover both, I wouldn't, to coin a phrase, rock the boat. If they don't, it might be worth querying with either the landlord or the council why tax is being levied. Moorings being by their nature insecure, and you've obviously got a mostly useful one where you want it, I'd tread carefully.

[Brian1570]

Thank u everyone my first time on here uve all been helpful so thank u x

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Brian1570 said:

Thank u everyone my first time on here uve all been helpful so thank u x

I would suggest you contact the Waterways Chaplaincy who can actually look at the documents you have and advise you, because I can't see how if you don't have a residential mooring how the rating office can send you something that you have to cancel. Home Waterways Chaplains -  

[Brian1570]

Thank u I'll get in touch with them tomorrow much appreciated 

[magnetman]

Boats and benefits is an interesting subject. 

 

i may be misreading this and apologies if this is a rude question. 

 

Is the DwP paying out council tax on your behalf which comes into your bank account and are you wondering whether it is better to keep it or pay it to the mooring provider? 

 

I had a residential full time mooring which did attract CT as it had planning permission. I paid the CT direct to the council not the mooring provider although I know that some providers do have some sort of shared system for marinas and places with a lot of moorings.

 

How did the Council Tax subject come into this if you have a mooring you are only allowed to use for 3 days a week? 

 

Did you get advise on what benefits you are entitled to? 

 

It sounds a bit dodgy to me. I don't think council tax would be payable on a mooring you can only use for less than 50% of the time. 

 

If you have ended up being paid council tax by the DwP as part of benefits payments and you do not have to pay it to the mooring provider then you probably need to tell the DwP about the error. 

 

 

 

Edited November 29 by magnetman

[Brian1570]

No DWP. Doesn't pay me the council tax it comes out ov my carers allowance 

[magnetman]

Carers allowance is usually paid by the DwP as well. 

 

Why is Council Tax being discussed when you can only use the mooring for 3 days a week? Is the mooring provider asking you to pay it ? 

[Brian1570]

No the council is charging me Ive never thought it was right but the DWP pay for my river licence and mooring I need the moorings because I don't travel far enough and CRT gave me 6 months licence and told me I had to get one 

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Brian1570 said:

Thank u for the replys I live on my boat so there for I have to move on for four days a week and then go back to the moorings 

And I need the moorings to keep CRT off my back if I'm not moving far enough 

I find this rather confusing, if you look at the CRT licencing , you will see there is a difference between boaters with a Home Mooring and those without a Home Mooring, Continuous Cruisers..

They now have a different Licence.  CC is more expensive.

Those who dont have a HM and who are Continuous cruisers, are expected to move at least every 14 days, and to travel a navigable distance, maybe 20+ miles over a year.

I dont know why you have to move every four days., did you mean every 14 days?

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Brian1570 said:

No the council is charging me ...

The mooring must have a residential address then.  

 

As far as I am aware there is no framework to charge council tax on moorings without planning permission for residential use. 

 

Is there someone else using your mooring when you are not there ? 

 

Does the mooring provider enforce the 3 day a week requirement? 

 

Sounds dodgy to me. 

 

[Brian1570]

No I can't stay on my moorings for four nights I have to move because it's not a residential moorings 

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

The mooring must have a residential address then.  

 

As far as I am aware there is no framework to charge council tax on moorings without planning permission for residential use. 

 

Is there someone else using your mooring when you are not there ? 

 

Does the mooring provider enforce the 3 day a week requirement? 

 

Sounds dodgy to me. 

 

No the CRT don't enforce it but for legal reasons not to pay for council tax 

[magnetman]

If you are having problems living on a Boat then get on the housing list. 

 

It might take a million years but its worth a go. 

 

I don't fully understand your situation but it seems dodgy. 

If the council are demanding council tax then you must have an address. Is the address the same place as where your Boat is ? 

 

I am NFA and use my sister's address but my post comes with Care Of as the second line in the address. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Brian1570 said:

No I can't stay on my moorings for four nights I have to move because it's not a residential moorings 

No the CRT don't enforce it but for legal reasons not to pay for council tax 

Are you saying you have a CRT mooring with a 3 days a week limit on use? 

 

Hundreds probably thousands of people live on Boats on non residential.moorings on CRT canals. 

 

Who is telling you that you can only stay 3 days a week? 

 

Is this real ?

 

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Who is telling you that you can only stay 3 days a week? 

 

This is the question jumping out at me. 

 

And another question jumping out just as much is "Who is asking Brian to pay council tax?"

 

I fear it might be the same person or company.

 

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This is the question jumping out at me. 

 

And another question jumping out just as much is "Who is asking Brian to pay council tax?"

 

I fear it might be the same person or company.

 

Yes. 

 

I'd like to know more.

 

 

 

 

 

It seems odd to claim that someone technically can't live there full time but still ask for council tax.

 

I think the OP may have been poorly advised about what benefits they are entitled to. 

 

If the DwP or whoever is paying the benefits originally had an adviser who thought council tax was payable on a non residential mooring out of ignorance this could create a situation where council tax demands would turn up.

The question then must surely be where are these demands going and who are they addressed to. 

 

 

Edited November 29 by magnetman

[LadyG]

33 minutes ago, Brian1570 said:

No the council is charging me Ive never thought it was right but the DWP pay for my river licence and mooring I need the moorings because I don't travel far enough and CRT gave me 6 months licence and told me I had to get one 

CRT may have discussed the problem with you, and in your circumstances,  and based on your movement history advised you what to do, it would seem they advised you to get a Home Mooring, but the mooring owner has told  you that you cant  live permanently on the boat, on the mooring, this is because he does not have Planning Permission for a Residential Mooring,

It can be confusing, so I hope the Chaplaincy will help.

 

 If  this is not a Residential Mooring,  (and it plainly is not, else you could live on the boat and stay there full time), I

don't see how the Council is charging you, it can't be Council Tax which essentially is the Tax charged for houses and a bill is sent to the householder, by name. 

 

It is possible that the person who owns the mooring, and who charges Brian to keep his boat there,  has muddied the waters by saying that the mooring fee includes the cost of his [ the mooring owners] Council Tax, and this has led to confusion. .

Edited November 29 by LadyG

[David Mack]

19 minutes ago, Brian1570 said:

No I can't stay on my moorings for four nights I have to move because it's not a residential moorings 

The OP's pattern of movement doesn't look to be sufficient to meet CRT's requirements for CCing. The only way CRT will accept a boat staying on a particular mooring for 3 days a week and travelling a short distance away and back over weekly four day periods is if the mooring is the boat's designated home mooring.

Separately the mooring provider may impose the 3 days per week restriction, but if CRT were aware of this they might conclude that it is not a "mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left (which) will be available for the vessel".