What’s going on in Wigan?

[IanD]

9 hours ago, fanshaft said:

Whitelock

That's him, knew his stuff. IIRC the resident lock keeper -- also good! -- when I went through later -- after Barry retired --- bemoaned the fact that he'd gone and employed CART lockies were being replaced by cheaper but less knowledgeable volockies... 😞

Edited July 6 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

That's him, knew his stuff. IIRC the lock keeper when I went through later -- after Barry retired --- bemoaned the fact that he'd gone and employed CART lockies were being replaced by cheaper but less knowledgeable volockies... 😞

Not impressed with the lady who locked me up nor were the volunteers assisting her, I was all over the place, first one paddle a bit, then the other, repeat a dozen times

[nicknorman]

Out of interest I just had a read of the pdf document about the flight’s minute details on the WFC Facebook group. I suppose it is good that someone went to the trouble of writing it, but really there is nothing of consequence in it that a competent boater would need to know. A few stiff paddles, a few difficult gates, a bolt protruding, and general advice on water conservation that, to a competent crew, is nothing new. I suppose there are a lot of incompetent crew around who might benefit from the common sense advice about water conservation, but there are plenty of other flights where the same applies and yet there is no need for a lengthy briefing document on the subject. I do feel this is “bigging up” the difficulties of the flight, which is a shame as some people will be put off.

 

One has to wonder whether WFC have any experience of other lock flights, because if so surely they would see that Wigan is nothing special apart from being quite a long flight with some rather short pounds.

Edited July 6 by nicknorman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 04/07/2024 at 12:03, dogless said:

Just completed Marwsorth coming downhill, and was surprised to meet a volunteer at the top, who kindly offered to help.

that flight did my nut in this time around,

I’d a nice rhythm going up hill and this short flight down which ought to have been fairly quick turned in to a right faff. It wiggling about and not being a straight down flight annoyed me 😃. But a lovely/pretty flight all the same. 

 

Perhaps because a willow tree further back had swiped my dinner off the top, I was hungry and grumpy, didn’t help. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

I have just seen a  posting on FB thanking a couple of them for their help

[Unicorn Stampede]

Posted by Peter Baxter on the Wigan Flight Crew about 10 minutes ago.

 

Seems we aren't going to get the total answer/reasoning but very intriguing wording by CRT.

[nicknorman]

Well there has obviously been a major falling out. Exactly why, we don’t know. My personal opinion is that the WFC are very helpful to a large number of under-confident, or incompetent, or physically limited, boaters. Which is good. But in their eyes, they have become indispensable. And worse, it is their flight of locks. They own it. Thus a conflict with CRT becomes inevitable.

 

It is exactly the same as a government in power for too long. Arrogance, entitlement and a lack of accountability all come to the fore, and ultimately needs to be knocked back. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Is there anything in the licence T&Cs about 'helping (or not helping) other boaters thru locks' ?

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

 

It is exactly the same as a government in power for too long. Arrogance, entitlement and a lack of accountability all come to the fore, and ultimately needs to be knocked back. 

 

Hmm, sounds a bit like the current lot, and they've only just settled in, lol.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is there anything in the licence T&Cs about 'helping (or not helping) other boaters thru locks' ?

Well if not, there soon will be! CRT can amend their ultra vires Ts & Cs whenever they like as quickly as they like.

[MrsM]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is there anything in the licence T&Cs about 'helping (or not helping) other boaters thru locks' ?

Wonder if all/any of the flight crew are current boaters and therefore licence holders? If not can CRT really dictate who does and doesn't touch lock gear? Our experience of the flight crew was generally positive and we were grateful to get some interesting facts about local buildings from them.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well if not, there soon will be! CRT can amend their ultra vires Ts & Cs whenever they like as quickly as they like.

 

The only thing I can find is in the Bye Laws which simply state that at 'infrastructure' (locks, bridges etc) operated by 'Board employees' any instruction given must be followed.

 

Nothing in the licence T&Cs

[Unicorn Stampede]

Peter isn't a boat owner, so not really sure which T&C's would apply to him...

 

Also unsure how they can tell someone they can't offer help on social media or in person. Feels a very unusual punt.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is there anything in the licence T&Cs about 'helping (or not helping) other boaters thru locks' ?

But the letter is not aimed at you or me,

It is aimed/addressed to the volunteer,

making it absolutely clear they the volunteer are not to offer anymore help in any capacity at all,

 

all sounds very extreme, 

what have they done to get the sack?

 

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

Peter isn't a boat owner, so not really sure which T&C's would apply to him...

 

Also unsure how they can tell someone they can't offer help on social media or in person. Feels a very unusual punt.

My understanding was that Peter posted a private email from CRT to him on his FB page. CRT did not post directly to Facebook. Posting private emails into the public domain is poor behaviour unless exceptional circumstances, which this is not.

2 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

what have they done to get the sack?

 

 
Got up themselves and decided it was their flight to play with, not CRT’s?

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

But the letter is not aimed at you or me,

It is aimed/addressed to the volunteer,

making it absolutely clear they the volunteer are not to offer anymore help in any capacity at all,

 

all sounds very extreme, 

what have they done to get the sack?

 

 

Were they ever employees in the first place, to get the sack? 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

And was Peter Baxter an official volunteer of CRT?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

But the letter is not aimed at you or me

 

But they tell him that "We reserve the right to take action for breaches of Licence Terms & Conditions if you do not follow our instructions"

 

Apparently he is not a boater so what can they do via the licence T&Cs - sieze his non-existent boat ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But they tell him that "We reserve the right to take action for breaches of Licence Terms & Conditions if you do not follow our instructions"

 

Apparently he is not a boater so what can they do via the licence T&Cs - sieze his non-existent boat ?

yes, that bit don’t add up,

but how much of this does add up?

 

we need to know why he can’t volunteer, or have I missed that bit?

[MtB]

 

I guess this is about to highlight the difference between randoms buying a windlass and turning up on a flight to 'help' as self-appointed volunteers, and "CRT-approved" volunteers with ID and a disciplinary procedure in the background should they overstep what they are 'allowed' to do. 

[David Mack]

CRT's land and infrastructure is technically private property. So CRT probably do have the legal right to ban a particular individual from being present on the property or operating the infrastructure, subject only to obligations to make that property or infrastructure available to the public under the various BW Acts and the CRT transfer process. So they almost certainly can't block him from walking the towpath. Nor can they stop him promoting himself on social media.

[PaulJ]

19 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

 
Got up themselves and decided it was their flight to play with, not CRT’s?

On the several  times I have met them they have often pointed out many of the issues on the flight.

The general message I got was dont just moan about it, complain to CRT about it and then maybe something may get done.

I do wonder if perhaps this put someones nose out of joint..

 

[Donny85]

I’m currently not a member of “Wigan Flight Crew”. Have they been promoting their services on there?

 

I’ve seen areas with online calendar’s for bookings or what I presume are CRT issued “on duty flags”. Do they also have these in Wigan?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

in a nutshell(ish), they are independent of CRT 
 

An informal group of volunteers is bound to run conflict to CRT’s vlockies?

[blackrose]

On 04/07/2024 at 09:12, dogless said:

I suppose it's a perspective thing  ...  do you see locks as an obstacle to be overcome or part of the fun and enjoyment of canal boating and why you do it ?

 

Why does it have to be a choice between one or the other? They aren't mutually exclusive. Many people see looks as part of the enjoyment of canals and rivers, but inevitably also see them as obstacles to be overcome. In fact I think that probably applies to most boaters. The human mind is capable of more than one perspective simultaneously. 

 

As to why people go boating, again there are lots of different reasons and one person's reason has no more validity than anyone else's.

Edited September 13 by blackrose