Beta 43 gears won’t engage

[Napton]

Had my engine serviced a couple of weeks ago. Due to ill health it’s only done just over 150 hours since last service. As far as I’m aware, the gearbox oil wasn’t changed this time.The whole kit is just over 2 years old. The engine was run in neutral after the service to check for leaks. Came to run it today and it runs in neutral, although there was a squeak at lowish revs but does not turn the prop in either forward or reverse. Might the service guy have disconnected something and not reconnected it? I’ve called him and he will come out next week. I haven’t paid him yet! Any suggestions please?

[blackrose]

What's the gearbox? He might have disconnected a morse control cable but I'm not sure why he'd do that. I hate other people going down into my engine space. I've noticed that some of them tend to accidently kick things with their big boots and don't watch where they're stepping. Nobody loves your boat like you do.

Edited March 7 by blackrose

[Napton]

It’s a PRM150. Launched Nov 2021 I’ve had several problems with the gearbox before. 2 selector shaft seals, first at 50 hours then 150! PRM eventually replaced the manifold? and not had any issues since. 
I hate having work done on my engine but it’s not something I can do myself, unfortunately. Thanks for your help.

[blackrose]

Oil changes are important on that hydraulic gearbox. The first should have been done after 50 hours with the same oil that goes in the engine and then every 250 hours thereafter. I know a guy who neglected the first oil change and 500 hours later had to pay for a very expensive gearbox refurb. But since yours has only done 150 hours and you did the first oil change then that's not the issue. You're sure the oil was actually changed at 50 hours aren't you? 

 

I'd check the oil level but also check to see if some clumsy oaf has stood on something and snapped a morse control bracket, etc. it would be typical - you pay for someone to make things better and they end up breaking things. From my cruiser stem deck I step down onto the rocker cover and then onto an engine bearer and I'm only 11 stone. But I remember one 18 stone overweight idiot stepping down onto one of my alternators! I thought the bracket or a mounting bolt might snap.

Edited March 7 by blackrose

[Bee]

The most likely thing is the cable that operates the selector lever on the gearbox. check the oil in the box then move check the cable is actually attached to the box properly. if it is not or the Morse control is not moving the lever the lever backwards and forwards, then that is the problem. The chances are that if you move the lever by hand then it will engage properly.

[matty40s]

You might find the lever is the problem, not the gearbox, boats dont like not being used, cables stiffen up and seize, handles dont work as they should, gearbox linkages snap the split pin as it's never moved for ages.....

[nicknorman]

If you had an issue with the selector shaft seal, this is usually due to too much travel on the cable which flexes the shaft and wears the seal. Replacing the seal only fixes the immediate symptoms, not the cause.

 

So I would check to see if there is signs of oil leaking from the shaft again, and check the gearbox oil level. The gearbox is operated by oil pressure and so if the oil gets low, the gears won’t engage.

[Eeyore]

Morse control stuck in neutral?

[nicknorman]

Yes I suppose an obvious point is - are you familiar with how to rev your engine whilst keeping it in neutral? The way this is done varies according to the type of engine control but sometimes involves pulling out a knob or some such. Is it possible that this knob(if there is one) remains out from when the mechanic did the service?

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, nicknorman said:

If you had an issue with the selector shaft seal, this is usually due to too much travel on the cable which flexes the shaft and wears the seal. Replacing the seal only fixes the immediate symptoms, not the cause.

 

So I would check to see if there is signs of oil leaking from the shaft again, and check the gearbox oil level. The gearbox is operated by oil pressure and so if the oil gets low, the gears won’t engage.

 

And if the cable is trying to overthrow the lever, there is a good chance that the cable has been fitted into the wrong hole in the lever in the control.

[Machpoint005]

^^^ this.

 

DAMHIK

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Silly possibility. I've seen recent Beta engines where the gearbox oil can be pumped out with the same hand pump as the engine sump oil. If the isolation valve happened to be open, then the gearbox could have been unintentionally drained when the engine oil was pumped out in the service. Refilling the engine may not have refilled the gearbox. No idea if your installation is like that, but worth a check.

[MtB]

A further point is servicing an engine doesn't usually involve doing anything to the gearbox, unless you asked for that to be serviced too. So my money is on the service bod managing to put the Morse control into neutral so he can rev the engine, and it sticking in that mode. 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Rather the=an "sticking" it is more likely the service bod did not re-set it to the drive position. As has been implied above.

[Tracy D'arth]

The fitter has not simply left the gear control in the out of gear setting has he?  Is there a button or tab?  Or does it pull out for disconnect?

If he has been revving the engine it is likely that he selected "out of gear"  on the control

[Napton]

Thanks for all these replies. The control lever is pulled out for neutral so to definitely not sticking or button left out. The engine did briefly go into forward gear earlier today but once back into neutral didn’t engage again. I have someone looking at it later this afternoon and will report back.

[LadyG]

Deleted

 

Edited March 8 by LadyG

[Napton]

Engineer came this afternoon. Very methodical guy who checked the simple things first. No problems with the control cable so he went to the gear box. Not a drop of oil in there! No oil anywhere around the engine bay! But, a bottle of oil on the swim next to the gearbox area. The service guy was rushing when he did the service and we’re guessing he emptied the gearbox oil and then failed to refill it. He hasn’t been paid yet and he can swing for the full cost of the service 🤬

Thanks everyone who commented. Much appreciated.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Napton said:

Engineer came this afternoon. Very methodical guy who checked the simple things first. No problems with the control cable so he went to the gear box. Not a drop of oil in there! No oil anywhere around the engine bay! But, a bottle of oil on the swim next to the gearbox area. The service guy was rushing when he did the service and we’re guessing he emptied the gearbox oil and then failed to refill it. He hasn’t been paid yet and he can swing for the full cost of the service 🤬

Thanks everyone who commented. Much appreciated.

 

This won't have done the gearbox much good, but probably not too much harm either since you didn't run it for very long. Just as well he didn't forget to put oil in the engine!

Personally I would never trust routine maintenance to a "professional" because as you have discovered, they often don't really care and just want the money and to get on with the next job. The old saying of "if you want a job doing properly, do it yourself" is true! Obviously this can be tricky if you are not mechanically minded but you can go on training courses to be shown how to do basic stuff like changing the oil. You will then be empowered to DIY and you will take more time and trouble over it than a "professional", and you will get to know your engine so that it is a friend rather than something to be frightened of.

[LadyG]

I agree that one should know how to change the engine oil, and the gear oil if appropriate, however when i try to get the filter off, I sometimes end up having to find someone with more strength, ( I do have a patent gadget, but it does not always co operate).  I like to have the gear fluid changed annually, but I can't reach it, in fact I think only one bod (out of four), has ever removed the magnetic sump plug. 

I have come to the conclusion that once I've found a good engineer, I should get the work done, no matter that it costs a bit, it means I can phone him if something goes wrong, and hopefully he will come and sort it, a bit like having an RCR contract, just cheaper!

Edited March 8 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

41 minutes ago, LadyG said:

  a bit like having an RCR contract, just cheaper!

And probably more reliable .  This just came up on FB 

have a persistent problem with Eberspacher heating system - fault fuel supply comes onto screen but have recently had fuel pipes seen to. Can anyone suggest something. RCR are proposing to charge me £645 for an engineer to come resolve