HS2 and the Grand Union

[Tracy D'arth]

3 hours ago, Bod said:

Your a non stopping train, approaching a platform at 60 mph, you see a person at the end of the platform, on the edge, not a hope of stopping on the emergency brakes.....

This is the reality of train driving, as told by my son in law, who drives Kings Cross- Kings Lynn, via Cambridge.

This not in anyway, shape or form, a go at Tracy D, I'm just using her words, to illustrate there is a catch to every good thing. 

 

Bod

Regrettable, yes, but not something that any driver can do anything about. Life is a risk for us all.

I still think I could drive a train!  I am quite philosophical about people committing suicide in front of me, it has happened twice. 

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Regrettable, yes, but not something that any driver can do anything about. Life is a risk for us all.

I still think I could drive a train!  I am quite philosophical about people committing suicide in front of me, it has happened twice. 

You probably could drive a train after training. Not a hope otherwise.

 

And don’t be blasé about suicide. It renders some properly hard characters unable to carry on with the job that provides their livelihood.

[Tracy D'arth]

13 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

You probably could drive a train after training. Not a hope otherwise.

 

And don’t be blasé about suicide. It renders some properly hard characters unable to carry on with the job that provides their livelihood.

Fortunately it bothers me not a jot, death is just part of life after all. I have seen death and cheated the grim reaper too many times to be upset by it. 

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Fortunately it bothers me not a jot, death is just part of life after all. I have seen death and cheated the grim reaper too many times to be upset by it. 

It’s not about you.

[Heartland]

The thread seems to have gone away from the Grand Union where the HS 2 element is nearer London than Birmingham and strayed into train driving and suicide. Curzon Street is near a canal, the Digbeth Branch and that canal had interchange facilities with the original two stations and railway companies, the Grand Junction and London & Birmingham. Waterways also assisted with moving construction material to wharves near the work being done. Coke was also brought by boat to the London & Birmingham Shed at Curzon Street.

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, Heartland said:

The thread seems to have gone away from the Grand Union where the HS 2 element is nearer London than Birmingham and strayed into train driving and suicide. Curzon Street is near a canal, the Digbeth Branch and that canal had interchange facilities with the original two stations and railway companies, the Grand Junction and London & Birmingham. Waterways also assisted with moving construction material to wharves near the work being done. Coke was also brought by boat to the London & Birmingham Shed at Curzon Street.

The thread was never about the Grand Union at all.

 

What we will be left with as a legacy is that the Trent & Mersey canal between Shade House and Wood End locks forms the boundary between the bit that was built and that which never will be; at least for now.

 

On one side of the canal is the embankment that forms the first section of the Manchester phase but was constructed with Phase 1 and which presumably will never get any track laid on it, and nothing on the opposite side of the canal.

 

ETA - and because the link to the GU was tenuous at best the thread probably should not be in the General Boating sub-forum.

Edited February 25 by Captain Pegg

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Heartland said:

Coke was also brought by boat to the London & Birmingham Shed at Curzon Street.

 

They were shipping drugs on the canals - even in those days ?

[magnetman]

The rozzers never think about canal Boats having contraband. Its ideal. 

 

 

[Markinaboat]

2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Well currently there isn't even an underground station at Old Oak Common, the nearest being either North Acton, East Acton or Willesden Junction, so compared to other north or westbound Overland Stations in London (Paddington,Euston,Kings Cross and St Pancras) it's accessibility is poor. The other stations mentioned have at least 4 underground lines available.

apologies if this has already been quoted but only just become aware of this thread. From a reliable source a few months ago:

 

EXISTING Network: 1hr 30 min Euston to Brum Intl Rail Station (with option to alight/join at many stations but slightly slower NOT an option with HS2)

 

HS2 Total HS2 time 1hr 31 min PLUS a walk at Old Oak Common!

Euston to Old Oak Common 28 mins (quickest)

Walk

Old Oak Common to new Curzon St Station/hub approx 48 mins

THEN 15 min walk to Brum Intl Rail Station

 

From HS2 site:

The first HS2 services will run between Birmingham Curzon Street and Old Oak Common in London between 2029 and 2033 and expand as new sections of the network are built.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Well currently there isn't even an underground station at Old Oak Common, the nearest being either North Acton, East Acton or Willesden Junction, so compared to other north or westbound Overland Stations in London (Paddington,Euston,Kings Cross and St Pancras) it's accessibility is poor. The other stations mentioned have at least 4 underground lines available.

I am not an expert on HS2 (although I suspect people in 10 - 20 years will rue the planning of the past year) but a quick Google look indicates that there will be an additional station on the Elizabeth Line, which is adjacent to Old Oak Common) which will give good links out both west and east (tough if you insist on living in Dulwich!) Also there is a strong possibility of re-connecting to the Acton-Northolt line with further connectivity for the suburbs out towards the Chilterns. In any case, North Acton is only 500 m away, if a proper pedestrian link is provided. It looks like it will be much the same distance as the HS2 - Moor Street walk.

 

Whilst the whole situation is a mess, it does not help to over-state the case.

[matty40s]

On 23/02/2024 at 15:21, Markinaboat said:

The pier is approx 50 metres from where my mooring was in the marina!

You were on here t'other day....😃

[Markinaboat]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You were on here t'other day....😃

I know ... and????? 😜

[Captain Pegg]

44 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

apologies if this has already been quoted but only just become aware of this thread. From a reliable source a few months ago:

 

EXISTING Network: 1hr 30 min Euston to Brum Intl Rail Station (with option to alight/join at many stations but slightly slower NOT an option with HS2)

 

HS2 Total HS2 time 1hr 31 min PLUS a walk at Old Oak Common!

Euston to Old Oak Common 28 mins (quickest)

Walk

Old Oak Common to new Curzon St Station/hub approx 48 mins

THEN 15 min walk to Brum Intl Rail Station

 

From HS2 site:

The first HS2 services will run between Birmingham Curzon Street and Old Oak Common in London between 2029 and 2033 and expand as new sections of the network are built.

That’s hardly representative since a journey from Euston to New Street (which I’m sure is what it should say rather than Birmingham International) isn’t particularly relevant to HS2. A far better representation of conventional versus high speed would be a centre to centre journey such as Nelson’s Column to the Floozie in the Jacuzzi.

 

You can go from Euston to New St in 72 minutes non-stop on the current infrastructure with the current trains but there isn’t capacity to do that three times an hour plus serve the intermediate stations and all the other destinations the WCML serves.

[Markinaboat]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

That’s hardly representative since a journey from Euston to New Street (which I’m sure is what it should say rather than Birmingham International) isn’t particularly relevant to HS2. A far better representation of conventional versus high speed would be a centre to centre journey such as Nelson’s Column to the Floozie in the Jacuzzi.

 

You can go from Euston to New St in 72 minutes non-stop on the current infrastructure with the current trains but there isn’t capacity to do that three times an hour plus serve the intermediate stations and all the other destinations the WCML serves.

I think whoever posted that originally may have been relating to visits to the  NEC or Airport (why else would a 'suvvernor' want to go to Brum! 😁ONLY KIDDING, I love Brummies as find them amongst the friendliest of folk in the UK!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

(why else would a 'suvvernor' want to go to Brum! 

so they can change trains for Tipton of course!

[Captain Pegg]

11 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

I think whoever posted that originally may have been relating to visits to the  NEC or Airport (why else would a 'suvvernor' want to go to Brum! 😁ONLY KIDDING, I love Brummies as find them amongst the friendliest of folk in the UK!

Well if they did mean International the same applies but the current normal journey time is less than 1 hr 30 mins. And the airport/NEC will have a dedicated HS2 station.

 

The options in future will be fast trains on HS2 and distinctly slower trains on the old route. Presumably the prices will reflect the level of speed and comfort.

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Similarly, they didn't build Heathrow Airport in central London either, and that seems to scratch along ok, on the outskirts.

It could have happened. In 1931 Charles W. Glover proposed an airport at King's Cross.

https://darkestlondon.com/2011/10/23/kings-cross-airport-1931/

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Fortunately it bothers me not a jot, death is just part of life after all. I have seen death and cheated the grim reaper too many times to be upset by it. 

Speaking as someone who has actually peeled a corpse off the front of a train, no I cannot say that it ever caused me PTSD however the driver of the relevant train was devastated. It was the 4.30am mail train passing through Starcross,Devon and he saw the girl, carrying her dog, walking along the centre of the line in front of him look back just before the train hit her. He continued for another mile or so to the next trackside phone to call in what had happened (shows how long ago it was) stopped the train and got out to report it. When he turned back to return to the train that was when he first saw her still stuck to the front of his train (he thought he'd run over her and left her on the track at the point of collision). When we got there the train driver was in with the postmen and was a quivering wreck; as luck would have it British Transport Police dealt with most of it, all we had to do was help him (BTP Sgt) peel her off the front of the train into a body bag. Trying to reassure the driver was also down to him but it looked like it might be a long job.

 

So how would you say they should train the drivers to prepare for this type of shock?

[Graham Davis]

I've known 2 drivers who have hit a person, one was back at work 3 days later, whilst the other was off sick for some time and when he did return only worked as a Depot driver, as when he did first drive out on the line found it much too worrying especially if he saw someone near the tracks. And as said above, it isn't just the driver involved; guards, signallers, P'way staff, and others all get involved and can be affected. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Speaking as someone who has actually peeled a corpse off the front of a train, no I cannot say that it ever caused me PTSD however the driver of the relevant train was devastated. It was the 4.30am mail train passing through Starcross,Devon and he saw the girl, carrying her dog, walking along the centre of the line in front of him look back just before the train hit her. He continued for another mile or so to the next trackside phone to call in what had happened (shows how long ago it was) stopped the train and got out to report it. When he turned back to return to the train that was when he first saw her still stuck to the front of his train (he thought he'd run over her and left her on the track at the point of collision). When we got there the train driver was in with the postmen and was a quivering wreck; as luck would have it British Transport Police dealt with most of it, all we had to do was help him (BTP Sgt) peel her off the front of the train into a body bag. Trying to reassure the driver was also down to him but it looked like it might be a long job.

 

So how would you say they should train the drivers to prepare for this type of shock?

I remember a schoolfriend whose house backed onto the railway telling about police officers and railway staff walking down the line with bin bags, picking up the scattered remains of someone who had jumped in front of a fast train. Not nice!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I remember a schoolfriend whose house backed onto the railway telling about police officers and railway staff walking down the line with bin bags, picking up the scattered remains of someone who had jumped in front of a fast train. Not nice!

's funny, it was always one of those things I dreaded getting called to, until it happened and then we just got on with it. I suppose that we were 'lucky' that she remained stuck to the train rather than going under it, but pretty much everything was broken. You didn't know what to get hold of to pull her off in case it came off in your hand, we never did find the dog.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

 

So how would you say they should train the drivers to prepare for this type of shock?

If that question is addressed to me, the same way as fire, police, ambulance and vehicle recovery staff are "trained", which is impossible. It is a question of having a sensible attitude towards tragedy and death which comes from experience.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If that question is addressed to me, the same way as fire, police, ambulance and vehicle recovery staff are "trained", which is impossible. It is a question of having a sensible attitude towards tragedy and death which comes from experience.

Oddly enough we were actually 'trained' for it since during probation we were required to attend both post-mortem's at mortuaries and sudden deaths (I don't know what training the other emergency services got since I wasn't in them). Perhaps everyone who want's to learn to drive should be exposed to the same 'training' just to make sure they are 'up to it' if they ever run someone over.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Perhaps everyone who want's to learn to drive should be exposed to the same 'training' just to make sure they are 'up to it' if they ever run someone over.

 

I've seen it stated that every train driver will get one jumper in his or her or their career, on average.

 

Some will get none, others will get several. 

 

 

 

Edited February 25 by MtB
Woke correction

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 Perhaps everyone who want's to learn to drive should be exposed to the same 'training' just to make sure they are 'up to it' if they ever run someone over.

A facetious remark, I think that the average Joe or Jill would not consider such training to be vital to learning to drive.

But we are way off topic.