Diesel

[Private Fraser]

I put red diesel in my car frequently, never been stopped yet 🤭

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

yes there was quite a fuss and good deal of confusion at the time. all the plant hire companies suddenly started saying if you used red in their machines they'd charge you for cleaning the fuel tanks, disposing of the old diesel and a new tank of white....  

 

The definition of 'Agriculture' is very defined and yet confusing :

 

You can use Red diesel in your tractor is (say) harvesting sugar beet, you can use Red diesel on the road if you are taking the sugar beet to your yard for storage, you CANNOT use Red diesel if you are taking, by road, the sugar beet to the sugar-factory as that becomes 'haulage' not agricultural.

I can use my digger for digging holes to put in fence posts (agricultural usage) but, on the same land, if I am digging foundations to put up a new barn, that is CONSTRUCTION and not Agricultural and Red diesel CANNOT be used.

 

Horses 'for leisure or pleasure' are not classed as agriculture and equipment used to (say) cut the grass, roll the paddocks etc CANNOT use Red diesel, but, a contractor can come, use Red diesel, and cut the grass to make hay as he does not know what the end use of the hay will be (it could be for cows)

 

When you look on the HMRC website there are many examples of where agricultural & 'special' vehicles (diggers etc) cannot use Red diesel, and qute a few where they can use Red diesel on the road.

 

 

Edited February 20 by Alan de Enfield

[nb Innisfree]

As I understood it many years ago you were allowed to use red on the road in your car provided you had paid tax to HMRC, whether that was true then I've no idea and if it was whether it applies now, after all if you are caught HMRC will prosecute you for tax evasion not for using red, technical point perhaps but does make one wonder. Dodgy area, esp proving you have paid!

[booke23]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

 

• for generating electricity or heating primarily for use in or on non-commercial premises

 

Exactly. 

[Snakey]

12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Time flies

You can't time flies, they go too fast

 

[magnetman]

5 hours ago, Private Fraser said:

I put red diesel in my car frequently, never been stopped yet 🤭

This is an advantage of having a petrol or electric car and some 20 litre carriers. 

[Tracy D'arth]

The tank dippers from HMRC used to sit outside a marina in Cheshire that sold red in cans to anyone in a vehicle.

A good number were caught and prosecuted.

Turkish diesel is green.

Edited February 20 by Tracy D'arth

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Turkish diesel is green.

That's because they make Turkish Diesel-ight out of the red stuff.

[magnetman]

I wonder how it works with Diesel amphibious vehicles. 

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

That's because they make Turkish Diesel-ight out of the red stuff.

They usually abbreviate Diesel to just D in this. 

[Iain_S]

20 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If caught with red in a road vehicle you risk having the vehicle take off you. Same applies to cooking oil and chip fryer waste.

You can use straight cooking oil or oil converted to biodiesel without being liable for tax, provided that annual production does not exceed 2,500 litres.

 

See para, 4.2.1 here

 

Edited to add : I see that this point has already been made 

Edited February 20 by Iain_S

[jonathanA]

 

6 hours ago, Private Fraser said:

I put red diesel in my car frequently, never been stopped yet 🤭

 

35 minutes ago, magnetman said:

This is an advantage of having a petrol or electric car and some 20 litre carriers. 

 

LOL i had read Private fraser as meaning direct into the vehicle fuel tank... but yes I frequently put 40L of red into my 4WD. I just open the back door and lift in the 20L drums...  its a bit surreal when i fill up the fuel tank with white at the pump next to the 'red' pump and then fill up some containers with Red... 

[ditchcrawler]

34 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The tank dippers from HMRC used to sit outside a marina in Cheshire that sold red in cans to anyone in a vehicle.

A good number were caught and prosecuted.

Turkish diesel is green.

Animal markets use to be a favourite around our parts, often at Norwich.

[Cheshire cat]

Slightly off topic.Has the tax/duty situation regarding HVO been sorted out yet? I've heard rumours but not seen anything official.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Slightly off topic.Has the tax/duty situation regarding HVO been sorted out yet? I've heard rumours but not seen anything official.

 

 

Didn't the IWA get some answers on that or was that still the talking phase 

[Lady M]

I think the government still need to sort out the HMRC rules/guidance on this.  It appears to be more complex than simply saying we can declare our propulsion percentage and pay 5% VAT on domestic use because HVO is already subject to special duty arrangements.

 

[Graham Davis]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Animal markets use to be a favourite around our parts, often at Norwich.

Still regularly seen around the various marts around here, along with weight scales and tachometer inspections

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Still regularly seen around the various marts around here, along with weight scales and tachometer inspections

i don't go to the Market any more, not done so for about 15 years.

[Cheshire cat]

18 hours ago, Lady M said:

I think the government still need to sort out the HMRC rules/guidance on this.  It appears to be more complex than simply saying we can declare our propulsion percentage and pay 5% VAT on domestic use because HVO is already subject to special duty arrangements.

 

 

I heard whispers that it had been sorted out which is why I asked the question. From the lack of confirmation on here I guess not.

[Sea Dog]

8 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

 

I heard whispers that it had been sorted out which is why I asked the question. From the lack of confirmation on here I guess not.

Don't poke the bear I'd say. It being "sorted out" is unlikely to be to our benefit.

[Lady M]

I think I'm anticipating a change to the duty rules being announced in the coming budget.  When does come in, there will be an updated or new document on the HMRC website giving guidance to RDCOs.

[David Schweizer]

On 19/02/2024 at 19:53, Andyaero said:

Yeah just wondered if anyone would stick their head above the parapet or is everyone totally legit. I do plan to continue to use my dodgy Firestick for TV reception.

It would cause all sorts of problems if I put diesel in my car, it runs on petrol😀

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, David Schweizer said:

It would cause all sorts of problems if I put diesel in my car, it runs on petrol😀

 

They are very difficult to turn off.

 

Many years ago at the Gliding club, a member (who was a Taxi driver) took one of the launch-tow-cars (MK10 Jaguar) to the local garage to fill up - filled it up with Diesel, started it up (engine was hot) drove it back to the Gliding Club and couldn't switch it off.

The only way to stop it was to disconnect the fuel line from the Carbs.