NO ELECTRIC

[Tracy D'arth]

Pfftt!  I did mine on flash testing supergrid transformers and switches then 125kv DC test supplies.  The DC was more frightening than the AC.

Edited January 17 by Tracy D'arth

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

This seems to minimise the danger from 240V AC. Not many milliamps in the right place will kill and so can 240V @ 16 amps. I think it is safer to not use "only 16 amps", because almost any current can be fatal.

Sorry, I thought I made that clear.

DO NOT TOUCH 240 volts.

Edited January 17 by LadyG

[agg221]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

We had real switches and switchboards too, it was just that they were switching 50 volts DC. The only fake thing was the standby generator, which was a cassette player playing a recording of a diesel.generator... 🤣

 

Once you had passed the initial course you were then trained on specific real installations and if successful given either an 'HV Approved Person' or 'HV Competent Person' ticket, which was valid on that specific installation for one year 

 

Later I became the 'Engineer HV' for a site and eventually 'Senior Engineer HV' for an area. These roles were mainly administrative, writing or approving method statements and switching schedules.

Totally OT but this reminded me of something.

 

We were once working on a project related to a new type of high efficiency cable. There were various companies involved - the company developing it, a cable manufacturer and a utility. Our job was working out how to join it. To understand the requirements, the utility arranged for us to attend a splicing job where a buried 11kV line was being cut and extended into a new substation; I attended with my project engineer and lead technician and all the other companies involved also sent a couple of people so that we could all go away understanding what needed to be done to make this work.

 

The cable was buried along the side of a minor country road so there was traffic control in place and we stood along the closed side of the road behind the barriers, all in hi-viz provided by the utility company, wearing hard hats. Towards the end of the day, we realised that all day long anyone passing would have seen this this highly visible line of nine people all wearing the utility's logo on their hi-viz, staring into a trench, while two people were actually doing any work, and probably concluded that the ratio of supervisors to workers was why their electricity bills were so high!

 

Alec

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, agg221 said:

Totally OT but this reminded me of something.

 

We were once working on a project related to a new type of high efficiency cable. There were various companies involved - the company developing it, a cable manufacturer and a utility. Our job was working out how to join it. To understand the requirements, the utility arranged for us to attend a splicing job where a buried 11kV line was being cut and extended into a new substation; I attended with my project engineer and lead technician and all the other companies involved also sent a couple of people so that we could all go away understanding what needed to be done to make this work.

 

The cable was buried along the side of a minor country road so there was traffic control in place and we stood along the closed side of the road behind the barriers, all in hi-viz provided by the utility company, wearing hard hats. Towards the end of the day, we realised that all day long anyone passing would have seen this this highly visible line of nine people all wearing the utility's logo on their hi-viz, staring into a trench, while two people were actually doing any work, and probably concluded that the ratio of supervisors to workers was why their electricity bills were so high!

 

Alec

Were they CRT hiviz jackets 

[blackrose]

20 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

This is classic Victron agro.

 

 

Just what I was thinking. The trouble with these Victron combis (and combined charger/inverters in general) is that often a simple fault will knock the whole thing out and leave you with nothing, not even shore power. I know it's a popular brand and their kit does have some great connectivity and monitoring features, but in my opinion this is also the downfall of Vctron equipment - it's just far too complex, sensitive and highly strung. I don't really know where they get their reputation for reliability? 

 

I've never really understood the advantages of combis? Seamless transfer of power between shore power and inverter and the ability to use your batteries in addition to shore power should you want to exceed your bollard's 16amp capacity? Perhaps there are some other benefits?

 

For me that seamless power transfer is completely unnecessary and potentially a distinct disadvantage if it happens automatically and the user is unaware and ends up with flat batteries. I want to be in control of my electrical systems and I never need more than 16 amps - that's about 3750w! How much mains power does a boat need?

 

In my opinion, if you have mains power on a boat, what you want are simple, separate pieces of kit that you can easily understand and that allow you to continue with your life if one of them happens to fail. Not a single complex unit that cuts out completely leaving you with no mains at all. The principal of building in redundancy to all types of systems is well understood, but for some reason it's not well applied by some high end electronics manufacturers and boat builders.

 

Having said all that it may still be something else like the shore cable connections, although I think the OP said she'd tried two different cables.

Edited January 18 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

In my opinion, if you have mains power on a boat, what you want are simple, separate pieces of kit that you can easily understand and that allow you to continue with your life if one of them happens to fail. Not a single complex unit that cuts out completely leaving you with no mains at all. The principal of building in redundancy to all types of systems is well understood, but for some reason it's not well applied by some high end electronics manufacturers and boat builders.

 

Agree 100%

 

When my combi went FUBAR I replaced it with separate inverter and charger. It makes sense to have discreet equipment for each job, bundling it together is just going to pile on the misery when one aspect of it fails and you have to send the whole unit away to Holland for repair.

[jonathanA]

the separates vs combi argument is another version of the pumpout vs cassette debate....   

 

In this case I think we need the OP to give us more info  to help work out whether it is 'too clever' electronics or a physical issue like a dodgy shore lead or a combination of both ! 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

...........the separates vs combi argument is another version of the pumpout vs cassette debate....   

 

Good point - Good analogy - with a pump-out tank, if you are frozen in, or the engine won't start, or the gearbox is broken when your tank is full - that's it. You are 'stuffed'.

 

In the same circumstances , with a cassette, you can change the cassette for an empty one, pop the full one in a 'black-bag', take it on the bus, taxi, or in your car to the local elsan point. You are never more than a few miles from an elsan point.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Good point - Good analogy - with a pump-out tank, if you are frozen in, or the engine won't start, or the gearbox is broken when your tank is full - that's it. You are 'stuffed'.

 

In the same circumstances , with a cassette, you can change the cassette for an empty one, pop the full one in a 'black-bag', take it on the bus, taxi, or in your car to the local elsan point. You are never more than a few miles from an elsan point.

 

Take it on the BUS?!!! 

 

Around here the buses run twice a day (if at all),and I can't imagine the bus driver waiting while one flogs over to the Elsan and empties it, then returns to the bus.

 

Not can I imagine a taxi driver hanging around for more than 0.1 seconds if he guesses what you have in the black bag  

 

 

 

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Take it on the BUS?!!! 

 

Around here the buses run twice a day (if at all),and I can't imagine the bus driver waiting while one flogs over to the Elsan and empties it, then returns to the bus.

 

Not can I imagine a taxi driver hanging around for more than 0.1 seconds if he guesses what you have in the black bag  

 

 

 

In a way one could tell em that' your breakfast lunch and dinners is in it.

[Karen Louise]

Anyway, back to my electrical issues. 😆

All has been fine for the past week and then the same issue last night.

Previously have tested 3 different shoreline cables and all are in good working order, no issues with bollard and nothing has tripped out.

Need to be able to problem solve so have a Marine Engineer coming out to see what's going on and help me understand the system a little better. 😂

[Tracy D'arth]

9 hours ago, Karen Louise said:

Anyway, back to my electrical issues. 😆

All has been fine for the past week and then the same issue last night.

Previously have tested 3 different shoreline cables and all are in good working order, no issues with bollard and nothing has tripped out.

Need to be able to problem solve so have a Marine Engineer coming out to see what's going on and help me understand the system a little better. 😂

I reckon its spikes on the mains supply putting the combi into standby, had it before as I said earlier.

[kevinl]

Bulk, your batteries are needing a big recharge, absorption filling up more slowly and floating is full but being topped up as needed.

As has been said dirty contacts (of the electrical kind) between the plugs, sockets ant the leads that interconnect the batteries is a possible, well likely cause and a free fix too.

K

[Nightwatch]

Our so called Aircraft Carriers have cables as think as your legs in the machinery compartments. Sounds dodgy to me. Steam engines always seem reliable as were gas turbine engines. If it works, don’t fix it! 

Edited January 24 by Nightwatch

[blackrose]

On 23/01/2024 at 20:53, Tracy D'arth said:

I reckon its spikes on the mains supply putting the combi into standby, had it before as I said earlier.

 

Yes as a non-electrician I'd plug in one of those socket testers to check the polarity and voltage before calling an electrician. If the marina's voltage is too high or low it's up to them to get the electrician in. 

 

I've got one of these.

https://amzn.eu/d/0oV1BCB

 

 

Edited January 25 by blackrose

[Karen Louise]

Victron has been looked at by a Marine Engineer and probably needs replacing....not good news when you are broke.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Karen Louise said:

Victron has been looked at by a Marine Engineer and probably needs replacing....not good news when you are broke.

 

 

The Victron is just a heap of components fastened together, it is not common for multiple components to fail and it can often be fixed with the replacement of a single failed component - the problem in todays throw-away society is that it is easier just to tell you to buy another one rather than do some work fault tracing and component replacement.

 

A company called SELLWEB (Tamworth) are reputed as being good with Victron repairs.

 

Sellweb:Industrial Electronic Repair & Design Specialists

 

Does you 'Marine Engineer' (whatever that means) happen to sell, or have a friend who sells, Victron equipment ?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Karen Louise said:

Victron has been looked at by a Marine Engineer and probably needs replacing....not good news when you are broke.

 

Just an observation, but as someone who traces faults for a living I'd say that intermittent, random faults such as the one you describe are impossible to actually positively trace, in which case that word "probably" in his diagnosis will be doing an awful lot of heavy lifting. 

 

Put more simply, it is probably just a guess on his part. 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

You will be mug if you simply believe that it "needs a new one".

 Victron have a repair service but based in Holland.

Sellweb will fix it, the last one I had  done it was a fixed fee of £450.  If it is BER, very unlikely, they will buy it from you for parts.

 

Do yourself a favour and turn everything off, disconnect the shore line and with a torch closely inspect the terminal blocks in the bottom where the cables are fitted. Look at the printed circuit board where the blocks are mounted. Any sign of browning or a smell of burnt plastic and you have found the simple to fix problem.  They are well known for this fault.

Edited January 26 by Tracy D'arth

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Just an observation, but as someone who traces faults for a living I'd say that intermittent, random faults such as the one you describe are impossible to actually positively trace, in which case that word "probably" in his diagnosis will be doing an awful lot of heavy lifting. 

 

Put more simply, it is probably just a guess on his part. 

 

 

 

I go along with that unless he actually witnessed and was taking readings when it tripped. Victron are fussy about the quality of the supply and with recent weather a glitch from that wouldn't surprise me.

[manxmike]

Regarding 240 volt systems, my brother is an electrician and a good one, but when faced with a 12 volt system he backs away. He says AC is simple and straightforward, but DC is odd and alien.

I, on the other hand, after wiring various cars, bikes and boats, find 12 volt systems plain sailing and 240 volt systems a complete mystery.

With regard to the Victron, try removing it from the system, run a line to power the boat through a battery charger and the batteries - simples!

[Karen Louise]

Thank you. Have had an engineer out at considerable cost but finger's crossed am sorted. 🤞

[LadyG]

25 minutes ago, Karen Louise said:

Thank you. Have had an engineer out at considerable cost but finger's crossed am sorted. 🤞

Perhaps you would like to share his diagnosis, and his remedy?

[Karen Louise]

Hi. Most of the connections were lose which isn't ideal and the settings were not configured to Lithium batteries.

Loose

Just now, Karen Louise said:

Hi. Most of the connections were lose which isn't ideal and the settings were not configured to Lithium batteries.

 

Loose