Enclosed bow

[Bromleyxphil]

Due to health issues we will not be able to live aboard our boat “ when we get it “ so I have started to look at smaller boats40+feet rather than 57+ feet.  The boats we have hired have all had traditional fronts, doors and well deck.  Given that you get extra space internally by enclosing the front I wondered what the positives and negatives may be of such a design perhaps from someone’s experience.  I have tried searching this but didnt find a comparison.  Picture just to show what I mean if I haven’t described it properly.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If some one needs to get to the bow when cruising, their only option is down the gunwales, rather than through the boat. Riskier, especially if they are rushing to say deploy an anchor, or handle a rope before a current takes control.

Secondary, it is nice to have an alternative place to sit outside, especially on the move, which you won't get without an exit to a bow area.

In an emergency, for example a fire, where the stern is blocked by flame/smoke, a bow door is easier to get out of than an emergency hatch, or worse, nothing at all.

[Bromleyxphil]

Only having hired and only on canals, how often do you deploy an anchor?  That is a serious question not being facetious😀. Regarding escape my next question may be best kind of opening in this kind of front.  Not seen many and as I said never been on one.

[David Mack]

12 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Given that you get extra space internally by enclosing the front

I think you would be better off getting a boat with the size of cabin you want and then adding 3 feet for a well deck. 

If you have any health issues which affect your mobility, then a well deck with suitable steps inside would be much easier both when boating and when boarding and alighting on a mooring.

[Bromleyxphil]

No mobility issues just need regular contact with a specific hospital

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Only having hired and only on canals, how often do you deploy an anchor?  That is a serious question not being facetious😀. Regarding escape my next question may be best kind of opening in this kind of front.  Not seen many and as I said never been on one.

A lot less than the number of anchor threads on CWDF! Only needed on a river under conditions like engine failure, or prop fouled, so you don't risk ending up over a weir while trying to sort it out. Rare, but it can happen and things can get out of shape quickly when people panic.

 

As for the best sort of bow emergency exit, it depends how large and how agile the people are that may need to use it. How agile might these same people be in five years?

[Didne]

I recently met a boat (‘Coffin Dodger’ by Bluewater boats, apparently it was featured at crick show last year) with an enclosed bow to accommodate a full size bed … but to allow emergency and occasional access to front deck, it had been fitted with the same style of door and sliding roof hatch that you get at the back of the boat … you had to climb over the bed to use it, but the couple who lived on board seemed very happy with it … don’t know if water tank or gas locker were in the bow but I guess accessing those services would be easier for having the door … xxx

[roland elsdon]

Canal time boats were of this type.

2 hatches each side of bow.

Every working boat built meant you walked the planks to deploy off the bow.

Yes you can fall off in the process.

[Didne]

No not at the sides … at the front … bit tricky to see but here’s some photos …

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Every working boat built meant you walked the planks to deploy off the bow.

They also got round the cassette/pumpout question by having a bucket you emptied in to the cut!

[Ianws]

Access to anything you need to do at the bow - tie off, access gas locker/ fill a water tank.

 

Emergency exit at the bow if there is a fire or problem in a lock. There's a recent ongoing thread related to this. 

[David Mack]

 

The problem with that access is that it leads onto a small gloss-painted deck area with no raised edge and not much to hold on to. The distance from the edge of the deck to the bank is such that you could easily miss your footing, especially if the bank edge is poor. Sometimes ideal really!

[agg221]

19 minutes ago, Didne said:

No not at the sides … at the front … bit tricky to see but here’s some photos …

We have a similar arrangement on ours, albeit with a tug deck and we have side bench seats at the bow which extend under the deck to form berths so the walkway to the front doors is fully functional. We have steps up and a sliding hatch which all works fine.

 

Alec

Edited December 13, 2023 by agg221

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

The thing with an enclosed bow is that it gives you a large bed space often taking up the full width, also could give you more internal space if designed right.

 With just one seating area at the rear, it can get quite cramped. The other things are you are restricting people/guests to no alternative outside sitting area while travelling if they want to chat and not be with everyone else, say the woman/children who don’t want to listen to the men talking bloke things. Or maybe want to chill and read.

 Also having sat/stood in the same rear area for 4/5 hours travelling, it may not be so relaxing at the end of the day to sit some where’s you’ve sat all day, especially a Semi-Trad.

Also with a bow deck it’s easier for crew to get off when you cant get the rear in to disembark or for crew to throw/hold a front line should they need to.
 With a large 6ft well deck it gives a comfortable seating area to relax as an alternative to be stuck in one place at the rear, or sitting in the boat while cruising.

 As with all boats designs it will be whatever suits your needs. I would say for leisure use a front and rear seating area, for a Marina livaboard not CCing an enclosed bow with a large bed.

Edited December 13, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Ewan123]

Our well deck has a cratch cover, so it makes for a really good dry but outside storage space. It's our fridge and firewood store in winter (while still being a useful entrance/exit).

The exit was very useful just last week - we got to a boatyard to avail ourselves of their water and elsan, but the only way to moor up was bow first, perpendicular to the wharf (they had their hire boats moored that way round already). It was wet and windy, plus some flow on the Llangollen exacerbated by a narrow section at a lift bridge, without space to wind the boat without banging around, and we didn't want to scurry down the gunwales in those conditions to tie the bow up, so my wife exited through the bow to tie up while I kept the boat in position with the engine. I wouldn't want to be climbing over anything inside in that situation to get to a small hatch on a limited bow space iwth muddy/slippy boots - as @David Mack points out, you might get through the bow hatch but that bow space is especially rubbish/dangerous if you're in any sort of rush or panic.

8 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Also with a bow deck it’s easier for crew to get off when you cant get the rear in to disembark or for crew to throw/hold a front line should they need to.

Yes, quite. We had need to throw a bow line over to the towpath to help haul the boat off a sucky bywash weir recently, nice and easy to access through the bow. Again with muddy boots on, no need to climb over anything.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ewan123

[blackrose]

6 hours ago, Bromleyxphil said:

 I have started to look at smaller boats40+feet rather than 57+ feet. 

 

Given that you get extra space internally by enclosing the front I wondered what the positives and negatives may be of such a design 

 

I'm struggling to understand your situation and the logic of your proposal.

 

If I can paraphrase your post: You're now not going to live aboard so you don't need a 57ft boat with so much internal space and you will be buying a smaller boat. But then you say you need to increase the internal space of that smaller boat.

 

It doesn't make sense to me. Setting aside the potential impracticality of an enclosed bow, why don't you just stick to plan A and buy the 57ft boat? Then you'll have the internal space you need.

 

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

The problem with that access is that it leads onto a small gloss-painted deck area...

 

W̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶d̶i̶o̶t̶ Who paints decks with gloss paint? 😯

Edited December 14, 2023 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, blackrose said:

W̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶d̶i̶o̶t̶ Who paints decks with gloss paint?

 

One who is idiot enough to close of the front deck/well deck.

 

Maybe the two are linked ?

[Bromleyxphil]

7 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm struggling to understand your situation and the logic of your proposal.

 

If I can paraphrase your post: You're now not going to live aboard so you don't need a 57ft boat with so much internal space and you will be buying a smaller boat. But then you say you need to increase the internal space of that smaller boat.

 

It doesn't make sense to me. Setting aside the potential impracticality of an enclosed bow, why don't you just stick to plan A and buy the 57ft boat? Then you'll have the internal space you need.

 

 

W̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶d̶i̶o̶t̶ Who paints decks with gloss paint? 😯

I can see that, I do like the idea of a fully made up large bed at the front, my wife and I can have very different sleep patterns.  I just wanted to explore the idea of a smaller boat given they are cheaper to berth and run as well as being easier to handle.

[David Mack]

10 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

I just wanted to explore the idea of a smaller boat given they are cheaper to berth and run as well as being easier to handle.

Cheaper in terms of licence and mooring and painting, but other costs don't really vary with length.

Why do you think a shorter boat is easier to handle? Some of the most difficult boats I have had the misfortune to steer have been short.

[IanD]

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

 

(because every boat layout has pros and cons, and different people prefer different things -- and yes, there are side doors at the front on the starboard side...)

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

We won't be able to do that till you tell us if it's got a pump out, or cassette loo. 😀

[Bromleyxphil]

21 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Cheaper in terms of licence and mooring and painting, but other costs don't really vary with length.

Why do you think a shorter boat is easier to handle? Some of the most difficult boats I have had the misfortune to steer have been short.

Again I have not steered less than 57ft, I see the day boats weaving about at will I assumed that was ease of steering not instability.  Seriously why would a short boat not be easier to handle?  Again serious question.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

We won't be able to do that till you tell us if it's got a pump out, or cassette loo. 😀

OK, I'll throw some more fuel on the right-vs-wrong fire -- pumpout with ports on both sides of the semi-trad stern... 😉

[Bromleyxphil]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

 

(because every boat layout has pros and cons, and different people prefer different things -- and yes, there are side doors at the front on the starboard side...)

 

 

Beautiful boat!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Again I have not steered less than 57ft, I see the day boats weaving about at will I assumed that was ease of steering not instability.  Seriously why would a short boat not be easier to handle?  Again serious question.

Reaction time to correct it is shorter when a shorter boat starts to go off course. Similarly for a shallower boat, compared with a deeper drafted one. On small day boats, combine that with inexperienced steerers and alcohol and that is why they are bouncing from obstacle to obstacle.