Renting boat unemployed

[Tracy D'arth]

34 minutes ago, wakey_wake said:

Ha if you'd carried on digging, you might have had enough gold to last the rest of your life! 💥

 

If it's the NI credits y'all are talking about, those can be purchased. They have to be purchased because they're worth money later, so...  how is getting the credit (stamped card) for free now any different from having a penny out of the social pot which is then saved for your state pension?

No. National insurance stamps. You are probably too young to know about them. But thank you for your acerbic, negative and unwarranted input to the discussion.

[magnetman]

43 minutes ago, wakey_wake said:

Ha if you'd carried on digging, you might have had enough gold to last the rest of your life! 💥

That is an astute observation.

 

I will take a spade next time.

 

Finding Fabergé eggs in charity shops gets boring after a while.

 

 

[Didne]

On 05/12/2023 at 15:39, Jimmy2445 said:

Hi all I have chance of renting canal boat as I will be homeless in a month and I am unemployed can I claim some benefits to help me pay 

thanks 

Jimmy

Hi Jimmy … I’ve no experience of this but … with an official residential home mooring I’d imagine that signing on would be a similar to procedure as for anyone living in a house, ie sign on every couple of weeks or so (when I last had to they kept shifting the days around … been a long while though it might be different now) … but anyone ‘of no fixed abode’ had to sign on daily … I believe that without a home mooring you’d be classed as ‘of no fixed abode’ … that might present something of a logistical problem considering you’d need to stay close enough to the employment office to get there regularly, while at the same time moving on every 14 days to satisfy your constant cruising licence … no idea whether you can just keep changing employment offices as you go along and just present yourself at the nearest one … common sense says to me that one of the great things about living in a home that moves is that it allows you to easily expand your job search into other parts of the country so I feel you ought to be able to do that … but this is officialdom we’re talking about so maybe it doesn’t work that way … Anyone able to add any proper knowledge to this ? … as my thoughts are just conjecture … 
 

Im very disappointed to see how much judgement is going on here … this is information that any of us might be in need of one day …

 

Good Luck with your job and housing situation Jimmy … xxx

 

 

 

[magnetman]

My residential mooring is currently paid for by UC from the DwP due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

The problem that will happen in the case of the OP is if there is an element of rental being applied to the boat itself. This is where it will get complicated. Who is setting the amount of rent paid for the boat?

 

I have a spare boat and I'd like £1000 pcm for it to be used as a continuously cruising boat. This will rather generously include the licence and insurance costs.

 

If someone can get that £1000 a month from the DwP and then pay it to me I will eat my hat and get some more boats.

 

It won't happen.

 

They will, however, pay for the licence itself if it is your boat.

 

 

[Bod]

16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

No. National insurance stamps. You are probably too young to know about them. But thank you for your acerbic, negative and unwarranted input to the discussion.

Yup.

Your employer, from the post office, brought a National insurance stamp, which was similar to a postage stamp, stuck it on a national insurance card, which they kept for you.

On a  friday when you were paid, the first thing you did, was to feel how flexible the the pay packet was.

Soft, you had a job next week.

Stiff, you had your card(s) and no job next week.

You took the card(s) to the Dole office/Labour exchange, first thing monday morning and signed on.

If your employer didn't buy the stamp/put the stamp on your card, then no dole.

 

Bod.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Bod

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Bod said:

Yup.

Your employer, from the post office, brought a National insurance stamp, which was similar to a postage stamp, stuck it on a national insurance card, which they kept for you.

On a  friday when you were paid, the first thing you did, was to feel how flexible the the pay packet was.

Soft, you had a job next week.

Stiff, you had your card(s) and no job next week.

You took the card(s) to the Dole office/Labour exchange, first thing monday morning and signed on.

If your employer didn't buy the stamp/put the stamp on your card, then no dole.

 

Bod.

 

And, youngsters today think they have a hard life - they have no idea.

[LadyG]

On 06/12/2023 at 11:10, ditchcrawler said:

And me

 

 

Separate posting

 

 

 

I think that @Jimmy2445 biggest problem will be in proving what he is paying in rent, I strongly suspect who is ever renting a boat out cheaper than a flat wont want a paper trail for tax and other reasons like licence, insurance and safety certification.

So, in summation, if OP wants to rent a boat and claim housing benefit he can only do this if the boat has a business licence.

If he want to get a proper job he will likely need an address and a bank account.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

So, in summation, if OP wants to rent a boat and claim housing benefit he can only do this if the boat has a business licence.

Not sure this would work either. 

 

Its quite an interesting scam to try though. One wonders how the System would be able to deal with the rental of the Boat itself. This seems a very difficult figure to accurately estimate, for a number of different reasons. 

 

 

Example. 

 

I buy a S8 Boat from CBS for ten grand. Tidy it up and get a Hire Boat BS ticket. I have a company name and letterheads. 

 

Move boat to N1. Advertise for rent. The monthly cost is £1,275 to roughly estimate living in a wheely bin in the Angel Islington without needing to sell your body and/or organs. 

 

It is moored near the tunnel ! 

 

Some bloke (or bird) agrees to rent the Boat. 

 

So we do a deal and I sign the document which says the boat rental is £1275 per calendar month (without selling body and/or organs). 

 

Do the DwP go for this one? 

 

 

They might. It has pitential. Thats like potential but with pitfalls. 

 

I think someone should try it. 

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Not sure this would work either. 

 

Its quite an interesting scam to try though. One wonders how the System would be able to deal with the rental of the Boat itself. This seems a very difficult figure to accurately estimate, for a number of different reasons. 

 

 

Example. 

 

I buy a S8 Boat from CBS for ten grand. Tidy it up and get a Hire Boat BS ticket. I have a company name and letterheads. 

 

Move boat to N1. Advertise for rent. The monthly cost is £1,275 to roughly estimate living in a wheely bin in the Angel Islington without needing to sell your body and/or organs. 

 

It is moored near the tunnel ! 

 

Some bloke (or bird) agrees to rent the Boat. 

 

So we do a deal and I sign the document which says the boat rental is £1275 per calendar month (without selling body and/or organs). 

 

Do the DwP go for this one? 

 

 

They might. It has pitential. Thats like potential but with pitfalls. 

 

I think someone should try it. 

 

If I remember correctly only boats that have a home mooring can be rented out (there is a different structure for 'self drive' hire boats).

 

Found it ......................

 

From 12 June 2017 boat owners are able to apply for a static letting licence for static boats that'll cover all types of boat rental, including long-term renting, Airbnb-style short breaks, and overnight stays. The boat owner will need to have a permanent mooring and should talk to their local planning authority to see if planning permission is needed. The price will be the same as for the current self-drive holiday hire licence.

The static letting licence has more rigorous requirements to make sure that both the boat is safe and that potential renters are fully briefed before spending a night on board. Boat owners will need to have: proof of adequate insurance; a non-private Boat Safety Scheme certificate conforming to hire boat safety standards; a detailed handover document including emergency procedures and contact numbers; a landlord Gas Safety Certificate; and written permission from their mooring provider.

Alongside this, we'll be introducing a new process for dealing with boat owners who may be breaching the terms of their licence by renting out their boat. If a boat is suspected of being rented out illicitly the Trust will contact the registered licence holder, as well as hand posting letters onto the boat itself to alert renters.

 

 

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

So, in summation, if OP wants to rent a boat and claim housing benefit he can only do this if the boat has a business licence.

 

 

No - it needs a lot lot more than that, 

 

See above.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If I remember correctly only boats that have a home mooring can be rented out (there is a different structure for 'self drive' hire boats).

 

Found it ......................

 

From 12 June 2017 boat owners are able to apply for a static letting licence for static boats that'll cover all types of boat rental, including long-term renting, Airbnb-style short breaks, and overnight stays.

 

 

Yes that is an interesting one. When one of the neighbouring moorings came up for auction I did ask the CRT mooring manager (CRT Wholly owned site) if one could put a boat on it and do short lets "Airbed and breakfast" style. I did not intend to this but had an eye on the status of the mooring site as my main concern as it is a small scheme (3 boats) and one wants to keep it nice. They confirmed that this would not be authorised but that standard rental tenancies are allowed.

 

I found this a good approach because if someone was doing the Airbed and breakfast thing it could result in too many idiots on what is in fact a residential mooring scheme.

 

I'd never consider it myself but someone is bound to spot the money IF there is any.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

On 06/12/2023 at 23:37, M_JG said:

We have a two line first post to base our judgement on and IMHO responding in such a scathing manner was uncalled for.

 

I agree. Simply telling someone whose circumstances one doesn't know to "get a job" is judgemental and unhelpful. However, on the other side of the coin are the people who claim the unskilled manual jobs aren't there anymore or that they're over-qualified. I'm afraid that is nonsense - the jobs are out there and if you're determined to get one you can.

 

Ten years ago I just finished my PhD and after a year of living off my savings (my PhD bursary ran out after 3 years) I was desperate for some income. I was indeed rejected from a couple of jobs in my field for being over-qualified, but there are always manual jobs and I ended up stacking shelves in Tesco for a while until the manager left and a 20 year old girl who'd been there a few weeks longer than me decided that she was now my manager and started ordering me around, telling me to work faster and criticising me at every opportunity. That's quite difficult to take as a 48 year old with decades of experience living in different countries around the world. Anyway, I left and ended up working in a boatyard for a couple of years on £7.50/hour. That's the most physically demanding and dirtiest job I've ever done but I've no regrets. I learned a lot. Eventually, at 50 years old I did get a foot on the career ladder in my field of study and now have a great job in packaging research & development for a food manufacturer. Sometimes I listen to my younger colleagues who've come straight out of university into the world of white collar work, complain about things at the company and I think to myself "You have no idea how lucky you are."

 

The point is that if you don't believe these menial jobs are beneath you and you really want a job you can get one, one's particular personal circumstances not withstanding.

Edited December 9, 2023 by blackrose

[mrsmelly]

8 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I agree. Simply telling someone whose circumstances one doesn't know to "get a job" is judgemental and unhelpful. However, on the other side of the coin are the people who claim the unskilled manual jobs aren't there anymore or that they're over-qualified. I'm afraid that is nonsense - the jobs are out there and if you're determined to get one you can.

 

Ten years ago I just finished my PhD and after a year of living off my savings (my PhD bursary ran out after 3 years) I was desperate for some income. I was indeed rejected from a couple of jobs in my field for being over-qualified, but there are always manual jobs and I ended up stacking shelves in Tesco for a while until the manager left and a 20 year old girl who'd been there a few weeks longer than me decided that she was now my manager and started ordering me around, telling me to work faster and criticising me at every opportunity. That's quite difficult to take as a 48 year old with decades of experience living in different countries around the world. Anyway, I left and ended up working in a boatyard for a couple of years on £7.50/hour. That's the most physically demanding and dirtiest job I've ever done but I've no regrets. I learned a lot. Eventually, at 50 years old I did get a foot on the career ladder in my field of study and now have a great job in packaging research & development for a food manufacturer. Sometimes I listen to my younger colleagues who've come straight out of university into the world of white collar work, complain about things at the company and I think to myself "You have no idea how lucky you are."

 

The point is that if you don't believe these menial jobs are beneath you and you really want a job you can get one, one's particular personal circumstances not withstanding.

Agreed. There is no such thing as say an unemployed Carpenter or nurse or Publican or surgeon or solicitor or whatever, you are simply an unemployed person and need a job whilst looking for a job that you actualy would prefer. Been there, done that lol.

[MtB]

And not just stacking shelves in Tesco. There is stacks of other unskilled work out there. Gardening for example. I and many of my neighbours have enormous difficulty finding people to mow lawns sweep leaves etc. Then there is building site labouring. Walk onto pretty much any site where building work is going on and an extra pair of hands offered at Minimum Wage will be hired with enthusiasm. Probably the same in boat yards. I once worked for a few weeks as a white van driver delivering sacks of MSG to chinese takeaways. Again minimum wage and hard work but filled a gap.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

And not just stacking shelves in Tesco. There is stacks of other unskilled work out there. Gardening for example. I and many of my neighbours have enormous difficulty finding people to mow lawns sweep leaves etc. Then there is building site labouring. Walk onto pretty much any site where building work is going on and an extra pair of hands offered at Minimum Wage will be hired with enthusiasm. Probably the same in boat yards. I once worked for a few weeks as a white van driver delivering sacks of MSG to chinese takeaways. Again minimum wage and hard work but filled a gap.

 

 

 

Whilst true, most of that type of job requires a fair degree of physical fitness, for the less able suitable jobs are probably not so readily available.  I know that I could not do a delivery job requiring frequent drop-offs because the legs would give up, especially if it involved much heavy lifting and carrying. Just saying get a job, I do not see as helpful unless the full circumstances are known.

[blackrose]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just saying get a job, I do not see as helpful unless the full circumstances are known.

 

Yes that's what I said.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Then there is building site labouring. Walk onto pretty much any site where building work is going on and an extra pair of hands offered

you need a ‘ticket’ these days before you do any kind of work on a building site,

 

[blackrose]

4 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

you need a ‘ticket’ these days before you do any kind of work on a building site,

 

 

Yes I was just about to say the same thing. You certainly can't just walk onto building sites anymore. They'd probably have a fit if some Herbert from the street walked onto the site with no PPE.

Edited December 9, 2023 by blackrose

[LadyG]

 

 

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I did gardening for a few years, one needs a van, a leaf blower if that is required for the six weeks and two or three gardens it might be usefull. Two mowing machines, to cope with gardens of different sizes. Trimmer, hedge cutter, good tools. Safety kit. ........£4K

Forty customers.

Insurance.

It helps if you can identify weeds from  plants.

In my experience customers have some idea that you get the minimum wage not including travel time or overheads. 

The companies who do grass cutting pay off their staff in winter.

If self employed there will be no work five months of the year.

 

I did ask a guy selling Big Issue if he could not get a better job, he looked fit, but it turned out he could not do any lifting due to injury. I suppose this included shelf stacking.

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

you need a ‘ticket’ these days before you do any kind of work on a building site,

 

I think most of these casual manual jobs may be open to young fit strong males, so where do those over forty without a good employment history find a job, it might be possible in certain areas, but not all jobs are available to those who need them.

Edited December 9, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

 

I did ask a guy selling Big Issue if he could not get a better job, he looked fit, but it turned out he could not do any lifting due to injury. I suppose this included shelf stacking.

 

Possibly not the actual restocking the shelves, but almost certainly lifting the distribution packs of products off the delivery cages and then onto the shelf stacking trolleys. Not sure why he could not do a checkout job through - although they seem to be going fast.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Possibly not the actual restocking the shelves, but almost certainly lifting the distribution packs of products off the delivery cages and then onto the shelf stacking trolleys. Not sure why he could not do a checkout job through - although they seem to be going fast.

I don't think his communication skills were up to the job, if you look at checkouts, half of them are self operated and the manned ones are manned by people who have been screened and then trained. There are not many jobs where you just knock on the door and start the next day.

Edited December 9, 2023 by LadyG

[Peanut]

One problem is that the back to work calculation will show how much better off you would be with a job. It may be marginal, also requiring you to go to work at your employers call, maybe unsocial hours, and involving transport costs. You may lose out on free dental treatment and other benefits. When all is said and done, you may be only a few pounds a week better off.  So, it is hardly surprising that there are those who prefer to stay on the dole, rather than be, as they see it, exploited by an employer.

Now in Switzerland, they believe in paying a living wage, a cleaner could be on the equivelant of £30 per hour. But then there isn't the over generous benefits system  for whoever turns up.

[Tracy D'arth]

The OP did say unemployed,   not unemployable.

[magnetman]

I went to Switzerland once a few yars ago.  Gods teeth what a creepy place. A few hours was all I could handle. Picture postcard scenery but crikey on a bikey someone's watching. 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Peanut said:

One problem is that the back to work calculation will show how much better off you would be with a job. It may be marginal, also requiring you to go to work at your employers call, maybe unsocial hours, and involving transport costs. You may lose out on free dental treatment and other benefits. When all is said and done, you may be only a few pounds a week better off.  So, it is hardly surprising that there are those who prefer to stay on the dole, rather than be, as they see it, exploited by an employer.

Now in Switzerland, they believe in paying a living wage, a cleaner could be on the equivelant of £30 per hour. But then there isn't the over generous benefits system  for whoever turns up.

With any sort of job he could get somewhere to live, a bank account, UC, housing benefit, Council tax relief, winter fuel allowance etc.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Peanut said:

One problem is that the back to work calculation will show how much better off you would be with a job. It may be marginal, also requiring you to go to work at your employers call, maybe unsocial hours, and involving transport costs. You may lose out on free dental treatment and other benefits. When all is said and done, you may be only a few pounds a week better off.  So, it is hardly surprising that there are those who prefer to stay on the dole, rather than be, as they see it, exploited by an employer.

Now in Switzerland, they believe in paying a living wage, a cleaner could be on the equivelant of £30 per hour. But then there isn't the over generous benefits system  for whoever turns up.

an hourly pay rate should reflect the hourly boozing rate,

I’d expect £30 in Switzerland would likely buy 2-3pints an hour. 
Our minimum rate of £12(?) would equally buy 2-3 pints an hour.