Why did you choose your layout ...

[blackrose]

Talking of kitchens (well someone was), I designed and built this big galley to maintain maximum open plan space. It also means I can pull out my double drop leaf table (bottom left in the picture ) that's currently used as my desk for work, and have a full dinner table for 4 or 5 people.

 

Obviously this isn't an option for a narrowboat but it just demonstrates the principle that you can have the feeling of more space by not having cupboards/worktops/breakfast bars projecting into that space. As soon as you do that it cuts the space off and makes your entire interior feel smaller. 

 

I'm sure some people like L shaped galley worktops and in effect I've got 2, it's just that they follow the perimeter of the boat rather than protruding into my interior space which keeps the boat open plan.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by blackrose

[phillarrow]

9 hours ago, DandV said:

We had a conventional layout and did enjoy the immediacy of access to outside space from the saloon to the well deck. The Ultimate in indoor outdoor flow. And sitting there was reminiscent of being in a dinghy, sharing your life with the water life.

Sitting outside on the cruiser deck, and you shared your life with those ashore. So different spaces with different outlooks.

 

This is the one bit that I am personally most unsure of. I love the idea of having the saloon at the bow for the very reasons you describe. However, my partner loves the idea of having the bed at the bow and lying in bed on warm mornings with the doors open.

Maybe we just need a boat each! 

 

9 hours ago, DandV said:

 

The previous owners, and designers of our boat spent at least a couple of weeks a year hiring for a few years whilst they refined their specification.

 

 

This is the plan for us, hence the early start in researching. Ten years might seem bonkers to some, but I really enjoy this process and, having recently gone through my pension and planned for what I'm going to need, it prompted me to get on with the planning stage. Taking regular holidays between now and then, ideally on quite different craft, will help us find the things we love...and hate!

 

9 hours ago, DandV said:

A good feature on our boat was the deck house was extended back over engine bay about 400mm either side of the central companioway to provide a locker each side. One side the paint locker, and the other storage for those cheap, but comfortable folding camping arm chairs.

 

That sounds like a good idea to me. I'll bear this in mind.

 

Thanks for your really helpful responses! Much appreciated.

 

 

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

Talking of kitchens (well someone was), I designed and built this big galley to maintain maximum open plan space. It also means I can pull out my double drop leaf table (bottom left in the picture ) that's currently used as my desk for work, and have a full dinner table for 4 or 5 people.

 

 

 

That's beautiful!!!

Edited December 1, 2023 by phillarrow

[Tonka]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

A lot of these modern things like goretex coats give the impression of being really good but they actually aren't.

 

On a boat there will never be a substitute for a good fire burning loads of coal or wood. Its one of those things than can not be improved on.

 

 

Its a bit like chainsaws. The design is basically the perfect solution to the problem. It will be a long time before a better solution is found to cutting through wood. It might never happen.

 

 

Obviously you keep it away from the fire !

 

Nobody is going to place a garment or item of apparel on a fire. That would be silly.

you do know what a chainsaw was first developed for ?

[magnetman]

Yes but it didn't have the cutters invented by Oregon.

 

 

I'm referring to the beetle inspired cutters.

[BilgePump]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Its a bit like chainsaws. The design is basically the perfect solution to the problem. It will be a long time before a better solution is found to cutting through wood. It might never happen.

<pedantic> Massive circular saws and bandsaw based saw mills seem to work better than a chainsaw based Alaskan saw mill for cutting lengthways into boards but yes, for just cutting across the grain into smaller logs, a chainsaw's the tool you need </pedantic>

[IanD]

2 hours ago, phillarrow said:

 

This is the one bit that I am personally most unsure of. I love the idea of having the saloon at the bow for the very reasons you describe. However, my partner loves the idea of having the bed at the bow and lying in bed on warm mornings with the doors open.

Maybe we just need a boat each! 

 

This is the plan for us, hence the early start in researching. Ten years might seem bonkers to some, but I really enjoy this process and, having recently gone through my pension and planned for what I'm going to need, it prompted me to get on with the planning stage. Taking regular holidays between now and then, ideally on quite different craft, will help us find the things we love...and hate!

 

That sounds like a good idea to me. I'll bear this in mind.

 

Thanks for your really helpful responses! Much appreciated.

 

That's beautiful!!!

For comparison, a couple of shots of a (carefully-planned!) narrowboat galley, showing how much harder it is to fit everything in while keeping space to move around. The wet cupboard can be seen behind the pull-out larder, opposite is an electrics/storage cupboard above and an open one below which just happens to be the right size to hold a telescopic ramp (much better than a gang-plank) and two mini-barrels of beer... 😉

 

To get a full-sized induction/hob oven in (SWMBO requirement!) a deeper worktop is needed, so opposite are shallower drawers -- the steps in the worktops are spaced so there's no pinch point anywhere -- including the bin! -- narrower than a couple of feet when you walk through from the stern doors to the dinette.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by IanD

[BilgePump]

On a 60' cruiser stern my dad fitted out - from the rear deck you would step down past a permanent double bed to port and small wardrobe, past the bathroom (shower, full sink and porta potti), past a U shaped galley to port (shower and cooker back to back on the same bulkhead), past an L shaped dinette that could convert into a double bed, then through an area with a small scale 3 piece suite (double sofa and two wing chairs) facing a woodburner and then into an open area where another folding table would normally be set up to work at but could have more chairs unfolded or a couple of camp beds put down if other guests. Out through bow doors into a cratch area with gas bottles in the bow locker.

 

Good things about it were that it had a cruiser stern for sociable fair weather cruising and was a pretty flexible space internally that could accommodate up to 6 people overnight but was very comfortable for a single person or couple on a longer basis. Galley and bathroom were compact but with the things you needed. Dinette was large and central and a good place to sleep in the winter if on your own as it was closer to the woodburning stove. The forward open plan area was way big enough to have converted into a second bedroom with another bulkhead, although the layout as was made it easy to run through the boat in a hurry if necessary, no dog legs through areas.

 

Bad things about it included the cruiser stern making engine access a pain compared to a traditional engine room, you were stepping from a wet deck straight into the bedroom. Also, the forward space was underutilised, virtually the same could have been got into 55' boat.

 

Would I layout a boat like that now myself? No, my requirements aren't those that my dad had when he had two teenage kids, but I'd take a lot of the little components to make a boat that suited me and my use of the canals nowadays. 

[phillarrow]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

For comparison, a couple of shots of a (carefully-planned!) narrowboat galley, showing how much harder it is to fit everything in while keeping space to move around. The wet cupboard can be seen behind the pull-out larder, opposite is an electrics/storage cupboard above and an open one below which just happens to be the right size to hold a telescopic ramp (much better than a gang-plank) and two mini-barrels of beer... 😉

 

To get a full-sized induction/hob oven in (SWMBO requirement!) a deeper worktop is needed, so opposite are shallower drawers -- the steps in the worktops are spaced so there's no pinch point anywhere -- including the bin! -- narrower than a couple of feet when you walk through from the stern doors to the dinette.

 

 

 

Thanks for those photos, it really helps to see what you were describing and it looks likes a really well laid out area. The tall pull out larder and wet cupboard are things that will definitely go onto my current wish list! 👍

[IanD]

1 minute ago, phillarrow said:

Thanks for those photos, it really helps to see what you were describing and it looks likes a really well laid out area. The tall pull out larder and wet cupboard are things that will definitely go onto my current wish list! 👍

Another suggestion is to go for drawers (of varying depths) below the worktops, not cupboards where stuff at the back is difficult to get to especially if it's behind something else. Deep drawers can easily accommodate pans, kitchen bowls, bottles of beer and wine... 😉

[magnetman]

I dislike the high level cupboards as to me it messes up what is already a very small space. I find the visual aspect disturbing. Prefer to have as much open space above side deck height as possible in the restricted space available in a narrow boat.

 

 

[IanD]

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I dislike the high level cupboards as to me it messes up what is already a very small space. I find the visual aspect disturbing. Prefer to have as much open space above side deck height as possible in the restricted space available in a narrow boat.

 

 

That's your preference, mine is to have them for storing plates/mugs/glasses/tea/coffee/spices where they're needed. They're shallow enough that they don't get in the way or obscure views when working in the kitchen -- because after all it's for cooking in, not looking pretty... 😉

 

Same applies to the extractor fan -- it's set far enough back over the hob so it doesn't obstruct your view when cooking, and I'd rather have a decent fan to clear cooking fumes than worry about it being "visually disturbing" -- which it isn't when you're in the kitchen. And the glass screen between hob and dinette to keep cooking splashes off it. Everything was done to make the kitchen as usable as possible and make the best use of the space; if it doesn't look quite as pretty as it might as a result, that's a price I'm willing to pay... 🙂

[magnetman]

I'm terrible for visuals in small spaces.

 

Each to their own and it probably is practical. I'm not a culinary expert type of person in the first place so I do have something of a floccinaucinihilipilification of excessive cupboard space.

 

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm terrible for visuals in small spaces.

 

Each to their own and it probably is practical. I'm not a culinary expert type of person in the first place so I do have something of a floccinaucinihilipilification of excessive cupboard space.

 

 

It is, we both do a lot of cooking, and all the cupboards and drawers (and larder) are pretty well full so there certainly isn't any excess space... 😉

[magnetman]

Seems ideal.

 

Not sure about the rudder.

 

Hmmm.

 

Oh well

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I'm terrible for visuals in small spaces.

 

Each to their own and it probably is practical. I'm not a culinary expert type of person in the first place so I do have something of a floccinaucinihilipilification of excessive cupboard space.

 

 

I share your floccinaucinihilipilification of cupboards and like to have as much space possible for prints, etchings, paintings, maps or whatever. Much more interesting to look at. Can’t imagine myself staring at cupboard doors for long. Hardly a talking point over a glass of whisky either. 
 

Mind, I do have an idea to paint a trompe l’œil on a cupboard door. It’d be an image of the cupboards contents which would perhaps save me the time of looking inside for something that ain’t there. 

Had the idea to put up a plate rack once and I might still do it if I can find the right sized rack to fit above the sink’s taps. 

 

[system 4-50]

My narrowboat, as was, not useful but I enjoy wallowing in the memory so here goes:

Mostly solo so able to just manage with only 60ft.

SF stove central in boat, both x and y.  So lounge central also.  

Galley at stern so that wife who does all our cooking was near to the steerer (on the rare occasions that she came on the boat) who was more willing to be out in the cold.  Straight either side layout kitchen, with full 60cm cooker& hob on one side & narrow units including sink on the other.

6 seater dinette in between.

Straight sofa convertable to bunk beds in the lounge, NO "L" shaped sofas because I detest them.  (The horizontal portions are too deep for my legs, the backs are not sufficiently near-vertical for me, and the angle is wasted space.)

Gas water heater in the lounge on the adjacent bathroom wall to minimise pipework to the shower.

Jabsco flush mascerating toilet connected to pumpout tank near the bow.

Bedroom with fixed double bed 200 x 140 cm so bigger than some, with 800L water tanks underneath.

6 seater well deck.

4 x 13Kg gas bottles in transverse bench locker at stern.

All services, pipework, wiring, etc completely accessible.

What will I do next time?  72ft.  An automatic folding rigid canopy over the cruiser stern.  Pale roof colour.  But definitely same hull builder.

[magnetman]

Having done the narrow boat thing for too long I think on balance sailing around the world in a sloop might be a better approach.

 

I suppose it would be a bit boring compared to creeping along ditches at 3.7mph.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

SF stove central in boat

Lots of good ideas but I’ll just pick out the stove being central as a really good idea. 
I manage on my own with a 48’ boat and the stove in the middle is brilliant. 

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, blackrose said:

Talking of kitchens (well someone was), I designed and built this big galley to maintain maximum open plan space. It also means I can pull out my double drop leaf table (bottom left in the picture ) that's currently used as my desk for work, and have a full dinner table for 4 or 5 people.

 

Obviously this isn't an option for a narrowboat but it just demonstrates the principle that you can have the feeling of more space by not having cupboards/worktops/breakfast bars projecting into that space. As soon as you do that it cuts the space off and makes your entire interior feel smaller. 

 

I'm sure some people like L shaped galley worktops and in effect I've got 2, it's just that they follow the perimeter of the boat rather than protruding into my interior space which keeps the boat open plan.

 

Is that you, I was a lot fitter when I was that age flogging up the odd 18" flowline or 36" manway, things change when you get well past the pension age.

[Dav and Pen]

Couldn’t beat an Air cooled engine in its own engine room for hanging wet clothes , just think that in old times we managed with 12 volt electricity, and gas for cooking and heating water as well as coal for the range or stove. Got first small inverter to charge battery tools and run a video recorder when we went to Ireland, brought in Athy, as the TV frequency was different.

On our barge we had a 12 kw 380 volt generator, 3kw inverter, washing machine, tumble dryer, electric kettle and coffee machine, 240 volt fridge sat Tv and a great pressurised water system and diesel stove. The barge was 14 ft wide but a lot more than double the space on the NB.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Dav and Pen
Photi

[Alan de Enfield]

On 30/11/2023 at 14:14, phillarrow said:

Nobody has yet mentioned any kind of utility space? My favourite part of every house I've lived in has been the porch. Somewhere to dump coats, boots, wellies, umbrellas etc. without dragging the mud and wet into the home. I'm surprised that this isn't something people have/want/miss?

 

Yes - lots of boats have it, and probably as many folks hate it and refuse to have one.

 

It is called a pram cover and covers the rear deck on cruiser stern boats. It makes an ideal place to sit out and view the countryside, it has a roof (zip out sides) if it is drizzley or hot Sun, it can be zipped up and becomes an extra living space for cool evenings (Conservatory), and acts as a 'mud room' for wet clothes, dirty dogs . wellies etc.

Folded completely down it sits on the rail so you are in the elements when (if) the weather is good.

 

Every boat should heave one (well we did and found it very useful)

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Lady M]

We use the area under our front cratch cover like this, makes sense given that the main entrance in there.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Having done the narrow boat thing for too long I think on balance sailing around the world in a sloop might be a better approach.

 

I suppose it would be a bit boring compared to creeping along ditches at 3.7mph.

 

Nothing to look at apart from sea and sky, for starters. And no decent pubs or places to visit. You'd have to *really* enjoy your own company... 😉

[Guest]

We had a cratch cover and a pram hood. Both very useful and it's easy to ignore so called 'purists' or 'traditionalists' who don't like or appreciate them because it's not their boat.

[magnetman]

Apart from being incredibly ugly I would be nervous about pram hoods being a bit vulnerable to damage. Either erected or folded down there seem to be some parts which could be picked up by certain types of vegetation potentially resulting in quite expensive damage.

 

Maybe it makes me a 'purist' but I find them incredibly aesthetically displeasing. They look horrid. 

 

Its up to people what they want but I would never want such a contraption on any of my boats.