Roving boaters

[IanD]

1 minute ago, GUMPY said:

You are kidding aren't you.

Last year's use was 2911kWh  I will have to use an average price as we are on Agile so that has been about 14p over the last 123days so roughly £410pa

Makes the total £4298.

 

My old mooring at Hemel cost more than that 5 years ago.

 

As I said it's only cheaper if you game the system and towpath shuffle 

Again, that average price (and usage) is less than most people -- without solar/grid feed-in and suitable tariff -- are paying. Very commendable for you, but most people will use (and pay) more.

 

Can't argue with your last point though, it's what an increasing number of boats have been doing for years, with the vociferous backing of the NBTA...

[magnetman]

It is still very very cheap even if the licence fee doubles apart from anything else there is no council tax. 

 

I know it is regionally variable but in London rent is incredibly high unless you can get into social housing. 

 

People not familiar with it might not realise that £20k p.a. for a 2 bed flat in a central and reasonable location is normal. 

I've seen a 2 bed flat in the council owned block where my kids live advertised by a leaseholder for £400 per month. 

That is in E1 Stepney. 

 

Mad shit. Obviously IF you can get in to the local authority housing it is a lot less but that is the private rental rate for a leasehold 'ex local' two bed flat. 

 

 

This is five minutes from the canal at Mile End which is a very busy area with towpaths completely full of boats. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

People not familiar with it might not realise that £20k p.a. for a 2 bed flat in a central and reasonable location is normal. 

 

And, a central(ish) mooring commonly reaches £15k per annum at auction.

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And, a central(ish) mooring commonly reaches £15k per annum at auction.

Yes. 

 

This is why towpaths are full of boats which don't move much. 

My mooring (CRT) is £12k p.a. 

 

A bit of a nuisance but one has the country estate for recuperation so all is not lost. Yet. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

43 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Living on a boat is not cheaper unless you slum it or play the system.

I count myself as one of the more fortunate that can afford not to have to play the system or slum it. 
There are folk on the cut doing that for sure, I doubt it’s a life style choice, (like living in a tent is) more out of necessity. 

I’m feeling the pinch this winter and I certainly feel it when diesel prices jump up, it decides how much I’m going to move 
So I do have some thoughts for those boaters who will proper struggle with the coming increase. There’ll be boaters out there who won’t be able to heat their boats properly (if at all) over the winter and that should be a concern to all of us. 

 

 

[GUMPY]

46 minutes ago, IanD said:

Again, that average price (and usage) is less than most people -- without solar/grid feed-in and suitable tariff -- are paying. Very commendable for you, but most people will use (and pay) more.

 

Can't argue with your last point though, it's what an increasing number of boats have been doing for years, with the vociferous backing of the NBTA...

The tariff I am on is available to anyone with or without solar. It does need work choosing your usage slots for electric and the price varies from about -10p to +55p. Timers play a big part in daily life🤔

The figures I gave are for my actual consumption so solar is irrelevant. I have made sure that everything in the house is as low energy as possible and anything not in use is turned off at the wall so no standby charges. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I count myself as one of the more fortunate that can afford not to have to play the system or slum it. 
There are folk on the cut doing that for sure, I doubt it’s a life style choice, (like living in a tent is) more out of necessity. 

I’m feeling the pinch this winter and I certainly feel it when diesel prices jump up, it decides how much I’m going to move 
So I do have some thoughts for those boaters who will proper struggle with the coming increase. There’ll be boaters out there who won’t be able to heat their boats properly (if at all) over the winter and that should be a concern to all of us. 

 

 

 

 

If there are boaters in that sort of need then there is help available to them - they can claim for mooring fees, licence fees and insurance costs.

That should free up a few £1000 so they can buy fuel, coal, food etc.

 

If they do not claim what they are entitled to then that is their choice and don't moan about it.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If there are boaters in that sort of need then there is help available to them - they can claim for mooring fees, licence fees and insurance costs.

That should free up a few £1000 so they can buy fuel, coal, food etc.

 

If they do not claim what they are entitled to then that is their choice and don't moan about it.

You’re a fool if you think it’s all as simple as that,

and I ain’t moaning,

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

You’re a fool if you think it’s all as simple as that,

 

No fool here (don't make assumptions it just makes you look the fool) but I'm sure some would like to make out how difficult it is so they can be a hero.

 

I have secured all 3 items being paid for by the LA for a boater that was in financial difficulty, it was simple and just required a few forms being filled in (income and expenditure) and a visit to a local council offices. All done and agreed in about 30 minutes.

 

I did try for the BSS costs as well but that was refused - they said they would pay for anything that had a 'direct equiavalent' to a house.

 

Mooring fees = Rental

Insurance = Insurance

Licence fees = Council tax

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No fool here (don't make assumptions it just makes you look the fool) but I'm sure some would like to make out how difficult it is so they can be a hero.

 

I have secured all 3 items being paid for by the LA for a boater that was in financial difficulty, it was simple and just required a few forms being filled in (income and expenditure) and a visit to a local council offices. All done and agreed in about 30 minutes.

 

I did try for the BSS costs as well but that was refused - they said they would pay for anything that had a 'direct equiavalent' to a house.

 

Mooring fees = Rental

Insurance = Insurance

Licence fees = Council tax

 
No Alan,

looks like you’re making yourself out to be the hero,

can you offer that help to all boaters?

Because yes there’s lots out there needing such help and not getting it,

no you are the fool if you think it falls that easy for everyone

 

 

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That should free up a few £1000 so they can buy fuel, coal, food etc.

??

and if they ain’t got a few £1000

 

oh yeah, the state will hand it out. 
 

do you remember how long it took for boaters like me to get money towards heating costs?

while all the time the likes of you were saying we don't. deserve it

[Arthur Marshall]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No fool here (don't make assumptions it just makes you look the fool) but I'm sure some would like to make out how difficult it is so they can be a hero.

 

I have secured all 3 items being paid for by the LA for a boater that was in financial difficulty, it was simple and just required a few forms being filled in (income and expenditure) and a visit to a local council offices. All done and agreed in about 30 minutes.

 

I did try for the BSS costs as well but that was refused - they said they would pay for anything that had a 'direct equiavalent' to a house.

 

Mooring fees = Rental

Insurance = Insurance

Licence fees = Council tax

Why did you have to do it for the boater? Surely they should have done it for themselves... except fir some reason, they couldn't. That's the case for most of those who are entitled to state help but who don't get it. Navigating the benefits system isn't easy for most people, it's much easier for those not in it.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Why did you have to do it for the boater? Surely they should have done it for themselves... except fir some reason, they couldn't. That's the case for most of those who are entitled to state help but who don't get it. Navigating the benefits system isn't easy for most people, it's much easier for those not in it.

absolutely and because Alan hit lucky with this one claim he thinks it’s always as simple as that. 


 

 

[magnetman]

I dislike when people rent out their houses and live on a boat because it is such a cheap option..

 

Probably just being judgmental but it sticks in my craw. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

absolutely and because Alan hit lucky with this one claim he thinks it’s always as simple as that. 


 

 

If you can demonstrate that you have recourse to state funds then you will get paid. This is what its for. For now. 

 

A return to the Victorian days of too many beggars is just around the corner if idiots keep voting in the current shower. Or the other shower! 

 

Its all [word removed]ed isn't it. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Why did you have to do it for the boater?

 

Because they had been following the advice of an idiot on the 'moorings committee' who told all the residential moorers to refuse the offer of 'consolidated' council tax as they would have to move twice per year, he told them to go with individual council tax which would have cost them almost £1000 extra per boat.

Even when I explained that it only meant moving 7 feet sideways and swapping positions with their 'next door' neighbour there was a huge resistance.

Eventually it sank in and the vote went for the 'I'll move twice per annum to save £1000'

 

4 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

because Alan hit lucky with this one claim he thinks it’s always as simple as that. 

 

No luck involved its just acase of being methodical and having all the answers - once they have all of the boxes ticked they have no choice but to pay out.

 

 

I do enjoy a good battle (but that was not one of them). In one case I ended up getting an apology and compensation from the LA over a planning refusal - I had to get the local MP and a QC involved along with the Governments 'rural planning advisor' I did have to sign a confidentially clause before I got the pay-out but as the Planning Officer and Planning Dept Manager had lied (in writing) I think it was only ever going to go my way.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Its all [word removed]ed isn't it. 

yes, which is why I want that one way ticket out of here to Rwanda 

 

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you can demonstrate that you have recourse to state funds then you will get paid.

yes and equally stop them without good reason,

I’ve been there too

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I dislike when people rent out their houses and live on a boat because it is such a cheap option..

I did too until I met some of them, they turned out to be very nice people,

 

[GUMPY]

36 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

yes, which is why I want that one way ticket out of here to Rwanda 

Have you been there before? 

I did a gig there with Pope John Paul ll over 30 years ago. Great time was had by all.

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I did a gig there with Pope John Paul ll over 30 years ago

 

That's a heck of a support act! 🤣

[StevieN]

Looks like it's been confirmed that it's a 6% increase in license fees next year.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/boat-licence-fees-for-2024-25

 

[rusty69]

Sounds like a bargain compared to the 10% in VED on my motor. I suppose I should count myself lucky it's not a widebeam or CC car. 

 

Still, at least it is great value for money, and due to potholes there is less road to drive on. 

[magnetman]

It means there is less money for beer which is quite rude.

 

[Mike Todd]

On 26/11/2023 at 17:25, Arthur Marshall said:

Not a high enough proportion. And help to buy caused price inflation for purchasers, had nothing to do with rents.

Recent experience seems to suggest that rental and purchase elasticity are similar - ie they go up and people put up with it or go without. The only difference is that, in theory, rents only go up once a year whilst prices rise continuously!

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

No, the point about "imputed rent" (or imputed anything) is you don't pay it, but you receive the benefit as if you had. 

 

Its only cheaper to live in a house you own outright because you are not paying imputed rent. 

 

AKA Lost Opportunity Cost

[gigoguy]

On 27/11/2023 at 10:47, magnetman said:

Hi gigoguy. Long time no see. 

By the way who is 'us' that one is supposed to support? 

Us is ALL boaters mate. I assume you're the sort of person who is quite happy to pay out large sums of money for no service. I wonder if you'd be so happy to pay increased standing charge for gas while only receiving gas for 3 days a week. 

On 27/11/2023 at 11:05, jonathanA said:

I thought that was the norm now anyway, certainly to my knowledge its been the case for quite a while. So nothing new there. 

 

I'm not sure I'm seeing the 'I'm all right Jack thing'  but different folks have different ideas... and people's experiences do differ. 

There are many on here that openly support the surcharge simply because it only impacts on continuous cruiser's without a home mooring. As you are probably aware there is also a review of customer service facilities taking place. The intended outcome is to close all showers and toilets to boaters but open to staff and volunteers. Now there will be many on here who will say I'm ok I've got my own shower. Or I don't use the facilities anyway. Selfish selfish selfish. That's what I mean by I'm alright jack

[magnetman]

10 minutes ago, gigoguy said:

 

There are many on here that openly support the surcharge simply because it only impacts on continuous cruiser's without a home mooring. 

That is not true. Someone on a mooring with a boat wider than 7ft2 inches is paying a higher surcharge than someone with a continuously cruising narrow boat. 

 

This is mainly about getting more money from people with non-narrow boats. 

 

Look at the figures. 

 

 

[frangar]

36 minutes ago, gigoguy said:

Us is ALL boaters mate. I assume you're the sort of person who is quite happy to pay out large sums of money for no service. I wonder if you'd be so happy to pay increased standing charge for gas while only receiving gas for 3 days a week. 

There are many on here that openly support the surcharge simply because it only impacts on continuous cruiser's without a home mooring. As you are probably aware there is also a review of customer service facilities taking place. The intended outcome is to close all showers and toilets to boaters but open to staff and volunteers. Now there will be many on here who will say I'm ok I've got my own shower. Or I don't use the facilities anyway. Selfish selfish selfish. That's what I mean by I'm alright jack

So you don’t want CRT’s income to increase yet you want them to keep all the facilities they have….how are you proposing to fund this in a time of rising costs for everything from energy to heat the water to repairs when they are misused? 
 

In a perfect world I don’t want to lose boater facilities either and indeed I’m continuing to fight to keep at least some where possible but if it comes down to fixing a shower or a lock so I can travel the system then I’m afraid the lock wins. 

[nicknorman]

33 minutes ago, frangar said:

So you don’t want CRT’s income to increase yet you want them to keep all the facilities they have….how are you proposing to fund this in a time of rising costs for everything from energy to heat the water to repairs when they are misused? 
 

In a perfect world I don’t want to lose boater facilities either and indeed I’m continuing to fight to keep at least some where possible but if it comes down to fixing a shower or a lock so I can travel the system then I’m afraid the lock wins. 

So it’s important that there is a lock on the shower door, but not whether or not the shower works? One has to wonder what you like to get up to in a shower!

Edited December 13, 2023 by nicknorman