Narrowboat share logistics

[Grassman]

On 10/11/2023 at 20:10, CruisingRobin said:

It's certainly a subject in question.  My current thinking is to put a toe in the water with a 1/24th share, but only if the two weeks can be taken as a single block.  That may be a deal killer for most syndicates.  If we could swing that, we'd continue to hire the other two-week block of the year.

 

That should be possible. I think the most common set up with share boats is 12 shares, and when we had a 12th share in a boat, a two weeks a year share was referred to as a half share. There were several co-owners in our syndicate who had half shares.

[MtB]

On 10/11/2023 at 15:57, CruisingRobin said:

Wow!  That is a very important consideration.  Thank you for the heads-up!

 

One (incredibly unwieldy) solution might be to buy an off the shelf UK registered Ltd company to own the boat share. 

 

Another suggestion if you have the money is to buy your own boat. This has a massive advantage that you can populate it with your own bedding, clothing and general possessions so it is always ready for you whenever you fly over for a holiday. No mucking about with bedding and clothing, and you can leave a core stock of dry food in the boat ready for each time you arrive. Start the engine and go! 

 

 

[cuthound]

Another alternative for the OP is to buy a sponsored hire boat, such as this:

 

https://www.aquanarrowboats.co.uk/sponsorship/

 

""As an owner of a sponsored hire boat, you will receive 38% of the hire revenue for years 1 and 2 and 32% for years 3, 4  and 5 (reduced due to our higher maintenance costs).  Payments are made direct to you monthly in arrears.  The return will have the VAT element, damage waiver fee and any optional extras deducted, as these are not included as part of the 38% or 32% return.

 

After the 5 seasons of hire you’ll be able to either take the boat away for your own use and sail off into the sunset, or alternatively if circumstances have changed, you can sell the boat.""

 

 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Another alternative for the OP is to buy a sponsored hire boat, such as this:

 

https://www.aquanarrowboats.co.uk/sponsorship/

 

""As an owner of a sponsored hire boat, you will receive 38% of the hire revenue for years 1 and 2 and 32% for years 3, 4  and 5 (reduced due to our higher maintenance costs).  Payments are made direct to you monthly in arrears.  The return will have the VAT element, damage waiver fee and any optional extras deducted, as these are not included as part of the 38% or 32% return.

 

After the 5 seasons of hire you’ll be able to either take the boat away for your own use and sail off into the sunset, or alternatively if circumstances have changed, you can sell the boat.""

 

 

The boat we hired from Aqua was probably the nicest boat we ever hired, and that includes "luxury" boats from other highly regarded bases like Anglo-Welsh, Napton, and Shire.

 

I looked at the Aqua sponsorship deal -- reasonable upfront price for the quality, 4 weeks holiday in season plus 4 out of season -- and if it (and the boat) suit you it seems a good way to end up owning a boat at considerably reduced cost.

[PeterScott]

On 10/11/2023 at 20:10, CruisingRobin said:

... toe in the water with a 1/24th share, but only if the two weeks can be taken as a single block.  That may be a deal killer for most syndicates.  ...

7 hours ago, Grassman said:

That should be possible. I think the most common set up with share boats is 12 shares, and when we had a 12th share in a boat, a two weeks a year share was referred to as a half share. ...

Yes, a number of the ex-Ownership boats had half-a-twelfth share entitling the co-owner to a fortnight each year: that's two weeks out of the forty-eight which are booked each year. Seemed to work well, provided there was no need of work on the boat outside the winter-maintenance period, and someone was persuaded of the benefits of a fortnight in early February. Can be a brilliant time of year, and Ownershps used to occupy Braunston Marina for an early-February weekend, although (8Feb2007)...

 

 

[CruisingRobin]

18 hours ago, MtB said:

 

One (incredibly unwieldy) solution might be to buy an off the shelf UK registered Ltd company to own the boat share. 

 

Another suggestion if you have the money is to buy your own boat. This has a massive advantage that you can populate it with your own bedding, clothing and general possessions so it is always ready for you whenever you fly over for a holiday. No mucking about with bedding and clothing, and you can leave a core stock of dry food in the boat ready for each time you arrive. Start the engine and go! 

 

 

You can't know how much I long to own a narrowboat.  I have endless dreams of specifying my dreamboat (serial hybrid electric drive, panels and batteries enough to light a village for a week, interior to meet my wife's most exacting standards, etc etc) and watching it being fitted out.  I want to retire to the cut and cruise aimlessly until I simply can't physically manage and some charitable soul hauls my spent carcass to some pre-grave holding bed.

 

But I live in the western U.S. and I'm afraid I have to for the foreseeable future. (Work for another 1.5 years, then there's elderly parents to care for until we are paralyzed with age ourselves.)  4 weeks a year in the UK on the canals is what we can manage financially (for a while), so hiring or share or some other applicable arrangement is where we are at.  I'd just like to get some time to spend on a decently nice boat sometime during that.

16 hours ago, IanD said:

 

The boat we hired from Aqua was probably the nicest boat we ever hired, and that includes "luxury" boats from other highly regarded bases like Anglo-Welsh, Napton, and Shire.

 

I looked at the Aqua sponsorship deal -- reasonable upfront price for the quality, 4 weeks holiday in season plus 4 out of season -- and if it (and the boat) suit you it seems a good way to end up owning a boat at considerably reduced cost.

Indeed, nice looking boats!  (A bit pricy for hire.)  If I had more time to spend in the UK, I would certainly look at the sponsor option.  But, for the foreseeable future, we've got 4 weeks a year.

On 09/11/2023 at 16:50, Hudds Lad said:

Instead you’ll get the crowds of marina-based leisure boaters who didn’t go out in the school holidays either to avoid the supposed hordes.  
Now our daughter is old enough to be left to her own devices and we can take breaks outside of school hols we reckon it’s just as busy if not busier, there’s just less children. Embrace the chaos  

 

"Nobody goes there anymore.  It's too crowded." -- Yogi Berra

On 10/11/2023 at 07:12, PeterScott said:

Allocating valuable space (and water) to a washing machine is mostly not-worth-it for crews who only usually have the boat for a fortnight - and probably bring enough clothes for that time and prefer to see the waterways rather than spend the time washing things. Similarly washing-up machines, but there are more of those. Much useful information to research all this on PhilipDuerden's Boatshare site. Hope you cand find something which suits ...

I figured I'd be viewed as a prat by some for mentioning onboard washing machines, but we are desperately trying to travel lighter, with only a carry on each if possible, both to keep the airline fare down and to decrease the schlepping of shtuff.  Carrying clothes for two weeks is out.  So we are relegated to stinking to high Hades, or searching out and inhabiting laundromats throughout our cruises.  There are few facilities in this world that I would rather avoid than laundromats, until there's a laundropub in every town, of course.  There would be genuine utility for us in doing our wash while cruising.  It's just a matter of circumstances.

[IanD]

5 hours ago, CruisingRobin said:

You can't know how much I long to own a narrowboat.  I have endless dreams of specifying my dreamboat (serial hybrid electric drive, panels and batteries enough to light a village for a week, interior to meet my wife's most exacting standards, etc etc) and watching it being fitted out.  I want to retire to the cut and cruise aimlessly until I simply can't physically manage and some charitable soul hauls my spent carcass to some pre-grave holding bed.

 

But I live in the western U.S. and I'm afraid I have to for the foreseeable future. (Work for another 1.5 years, then there's elderly parents to care for until we are paralyzed with age ourselves.)  4 weeks a year in the UK on the canals is what we can manage financially (for a while), so hiring or share or some other applicable arrangement is where we are at.  I'd just like to get some time to spend on a decently nice boat sometime during that.

Indeed, nice looking boats!  (A bit pricy for hire.)  If I had more time to spend in the UK, I would certainly look at the sponsor option.  But, for the foreseeable future, we've got 4 weeks a year.

"Nobody goes there anymore.  It's too crowded." -- Yogi Berra

I figured I'd be viewed as a prat by some for mentioning onboard washing machines, but we are desperately trying to travel lighter, with only a carry on each if possible, both to keep the airline fare down and to decrease the schlepping of shtuff.  Carrying clothes for two weeks is out.  So we are relegated to stinking to high Hades, or searching out and inhabiting laundromats throughout our cruises.  There are few facilities in this world that I would rather avoid than laundromats, until there's a laundropub in every town, of course.  There would be genuine utility for us in doing our wash while cruising.  It's just a matter of circumstances.

 

Having just done what your first paragraph describes (except for retirement), I hope you're aware that it's a *very* expensive dream -- and will take longer and cost more than predicted... 😉

 

From memory the Aqua boats have similar hire costs to the high-end boats from other bases -- obviously many cheaper but older and less well-equipped boats are also available from elsewhere... 😉

 

If sponsorship is too expensive/too many weeks for you and you really want a washing machine (or washer/drier, see below) then a 1 month boat share is probably your only option.

 

Drying washing on a narrowboat is a PITA, especially in poorer weather when you're more likely to need it (mud and rain...). If the boat has a beefy enough battery/inverter/alternator to support it then I'd recommend a washer/drier. These take quite a long time to wash and dry a load -- and you can't dry a full wash load -- but as you say this can all happen while you're cruising along during the day, when big alternators/Travelpower can support the electrical load.

 

Few boats -- apart from series hybrids with massive LFP battery banks -- can power a washer/drier while moored up without being plugged in...

Edited November 14, 2023 by IanD

[system 4-50]

8 hours ago, IanD said:

Few boats -- apart from series hybrids with massive LFP battery banks -- can power a washer/drier while moored up without being plugged in...

Mine could, but my drier was gas powered!

[CruisingRobin]

11 hours ago, IanD said:

Drying washing on a narrowboat is a PITA, especially in poorer weather when you're more likely to need it (mud and rain...). If the boat has a beefy enough battery/inverter/alternator to support it then I'd recommend a washer/drier. These take quite a long time to wash and dry a load -- and you can't dry a full wash load -- but as you say this can all happen while you're cruising along during the day, when big alternators/Travelpower can support the electrical load.

 

Few boats -- apart from series hybrids with massive LFP battery banks -- can power a washer/drier while moored up without being plugged in...

Electrical limitations well understood.   That's why I mentioned washing while cruising.  I wonder if in all installations there's enough juice to wash/dry while under power and charge up the batteries for the night at the same time.   Would seem to me the size/output of the alternator that matters.  Also perhaps whether the power for the washer is 240VAC or 12VDC, and if the inverter can handle everything if it's AC.

 

All academic at this point.  I've got 2024's hires already set up and it's coin laundry for us.  I think there's one of those laundry pubs somewhere on the four-counties ring?  That would make for a cheerier wash.   🍺😊

[nicknorman]

We have a compact washing machine and separate compact tumble drier, for similar reasons to you. We live 450 mile away from the boat and our normal means of transport to/from was by air. So we wanted to have the boat fully loaded with bedding and clothes and no need to take anything other than the clothes we were wearing.

 

Worked well for about 6 years until the airline went bust! But it is great to be able to wash and dry clothes and bedding on the boat. There was an occasion recently when we saw a lady on a hire boat fall in at the top of a flight of locks. By the time we got to the bottom we were able to present her with her clothes that we had washed and dried on the flight, all neatly folded (ironing is a step too far!).

A washing machine only uses a lot of power to heat the water on the wash cycle. After that and for the rinses and spins it uses very little. The tumble drier is 2kw but the travelpower and larger alternator share that via the Combi without straining either. So my point is this can be done even though most people don’t.

 

[Lady M]

We managed fairly long trips (6+ weeks) with regular handwashing of smaller items and occasional launderette visits for bedding and jeans.  Having only small quantities of damp washing onboard worked well for us.  Sometimes I used a hot water bottle for final airing!  

[cuthound]

We have something like this on the boat. It lives in the shower when not in use, but has to be moved out every morning when we shower.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FitnessClub-Portable-Washing-Capacity-Apartments/dp/B07L89RRFP?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AUDM1OZFTNQOM&nis=6

 

Mrs Hound says it washer quicker and better than the automatic washing machine at home, but you have to do the "automatic" bit by filling it, emptying it and transferring the washing from one tub to another. It only draws about 250 watts, so relatively easy on the batteries.

[midnight cowboy]

On 10/11/2023 at 11:02, nicknorman said:

I’ll just mention one stupid issue which seems to be becoming problematic. Several people have reported that many insurance companies decline cover if any of the co-owners are not resident in the UK. Not quite sure why. Just something to check on before getting too deep into the purchase of a share.

That problem arose a few years ago on our, privately managed, shared boat.

 

on the linen issue, once in a shared ownership boat you might be able to ask another owner who lives near the boat to store a set of linen for you (and duvets in our case)

[CruisingRobin]

On 14/11/2023 at 01:52, IanD said:

 

Having just done what your first paragraph describes (except for retirement), I hope you're aware that it's a *very* expensive dream -- and will take longer and cost more than predicted... 😉

 

 

Oh, I'm aware.  Looks like what I'm talking about would cost upward of a quarter megaquid.  Then upkeep, moorings.... That's exactly why it will most probably remain a dream.

 

If we sold our San Francisco bay area home and cashed in all the rest of our chips we could build a very livable narrowboat, and possibly afford some modest land accommodation somewhere in the country as well.  But retiring to the UK would be difficult for us since the retirement visa program was cancelled along with Brexit, and my wife is tied to the US by elderly parents who need looking after.  So, sigh...

 

I'm ever so curious, Ian, what did you build?  I can at least live vicariously.

 

[IanD]

9 hours ago, CruisingRobin said:

 

Oh, I'm aware.  Looks like what I'm talking about would cost upward of a quarter megaquid.  Then upkeep, moorings.... That's exactly why it will most probably remain a dream.

 

If we sold our San Francisco bay area home and cashed in all the rest of our chips we could build a very livable narrowboat, and possibly afford some modest land accommodation somewhere in the country as well.  But retiring to the UK would be difficult for us since the retirement visa program was cancelled along with Brexit, and my wife is tied to the US by elderly parents who need looking after.  So, sigh...

 

I'm ever so curious, Ian, what did you build?  I can at least live vicariously.

 

Since I know Yanks*** love fractions, you're about a twelfth of a megaquid too low... 😉

 

I had a narrowboat built by Finesse which sounds very much like what your dream is -- a 60' reverse layout state-of-the-art series hybrid, gas-free and with a lot of the modern technology bells and whistles that some people on here seem to hate. It was more than a year in the planning and about 18 months in build, so far we've only had a couple of weeks onboard last month delivering it from Sheffield to the marina at Anderton. Power (not much right now!) comes from 2kW of solar and a cocooned 9kVA diesel generator, with extra measures to keep noise and vibration down when it's running.

 

Apart from a couple of not-entirely-unexpected glitches it pretty much lived up to expectations -- it's spooky to be cruising along in almost complete silence apart from a burble from the wake, and it handles like a dream 🙂

 

*** Canada is pretty much part of the USA, isn't it? 😉

[Rincewind]

On 14/11/2023 at 21:39, CruisingRobin said:

I think there's one of those laundry pubs somewhere on the four-counties ring?  That would make for a cheerier wash.   🍺😊

There is one canalside at Brewood (pronounced Brood) on the Shropshire Union canal if your going that way.  Never used the laundry there but the pub serves decent cask ale and has a good selection of food. 

[CruisingRobin]

I just hope the machines display remaining cycle times in pints.  I think about 3 pints a load is right.

[CruisingRobin]

19 hours ago, IanD said:

Since I know Yanks*** love fractions, you're about a twelfth of a megaquid too low... 😉

Never heard that one, but since I started this thread with the idea of buying 1/24th of a boat, there may be something there.

 

I was going off a very informal answer from Braidbar when I asked how much it would cost to duplicate the NB Desiderata.  They very informally said 220K.  Being builders, naturally they lowballed it.

 

19 hours ago, IanD said:

I had a narrowboat built by Finesse which sounds very much like what your dream is -- a 60' reverse layout state-of-the-art series hybrid, gas-free and with a lot of the modern technology bells and whistles that some people on here seem to hate. It was more than a year in the planning and about 18 months in build, so far we've only had a couple of weeks onboard last month delivering it from Sheffield to the marina at Anderton. Power (not much right now!) comes from 2kW of solar and a cocooned 9kVA diesel generator, with extra measures to keep noise and vibration down when it's running.

Your boat sounds delicious.  I guess you're one of the "shiny boat people" that some on this forum seem to like to deride.  I, for one, and open and free with my jealousy, no derision required.

 

Is that cocooned generator quiet enough that you can run in the evening to charge up without bothering the neighbors when moored? 

19 hours ago, IanD said:

Apart from a couple of not-entirely-unexpected glitches it pretty much lived up to expectations -- it's spooky to be cruising along in almost complete silence apart from a burble from the wake, and it handles like a dream 🙂

Any pictures posted anywhere?

19 hours ago, IanD said:

*** Canada is pretty much part of the USA, isn't it? 😉

Um, according to any Canadian I've ever known, and most Americans, no.  They are our decidedly-not-frighteningly-and-violently-insane cousins/neighbors to the north.  We are alike in that we are both derelict children of the British Empire.  We are different in that they still write home and try to send you poutine (which is not a British comfort food but should be), where as we gave the royalty the middle finger and went off to invent aviation and the worst beer in the world.

 

If there's anything I can happily say for my countrymen, we've since gotten way better in the beer department.

[IanD]

8 hours ago, CruisingRobin said:

Never heard that one, but since I started this thread with the idea of buying 1/24th of a boat, there may be something there.

 

I was going off a very informal answer from Braidbar when I asked how much it would cost to duplicate the NB Desiderata.  They very informally said 220K.  Being builders, naturally they lowballed it.

 

Your boat sounds delicious.  I guess you're one of the "shiny boat people" that some on this forum seem to like to deride.  I, for one, and open and free with my jealousy, no derision required.

 

Is that cocooned generator quiet enough that you can run in the evening to charge up without bothering the neighbors when moored? 

Any pictures posted anywhere?

Um, according to any Canadian I've ever known, and most Americans, no.  They are our decidedly-not-frighteningly-and-violently-insane cousins/neighbors to the north.  We are alike in that we are both derelict children of the British Empire.  We are different in that they still write home and try to send you poutine (which is not a British comfort food but should be), where as we gave the royalty the middle finger and went off to invent aviation and the worst beer in the world.

 

If there's anything I can happily say for my countrymen, we've since gotten way better in the beer department.

 

I ordered my boat in April last year, by the time I took final delivery in October this year (1.5 years later) the cost had gone up by a bit less than 10% -- a fair bit of this was fitout add-ons which weren't in the original contract, the rest was material and equipment price rises.

 

The generator is probably quiet enough to run evenings without bothering neighbours but I wouldn't do that, it has 8pm to 8am set as quiet hours so it doesn't run except in an emergency -- also there's no need to since even if the batteries are below 50% by the end of the day there's plenty of stored power for even an electric-heavy evening (cooking, washing/drying etc), so it can wait until after 8am the next day.

 

I've posted pictures in various forum threads when discussing boat design, it looks like this... 🙂

 

P.S. The Yank thing was a joke, my brother-in-law lives in Toronto and I have colleagues in Ottawa (poutine and Canadian beer, uurgh...) so I'm well aware of the differences... 😉

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, CruisingRobin said:

 

Is that cocooned generator quiet enough that you can run in the evening to charge up without bothering the neighbors when moored?

When I came upon Rallentando moored up at Sowerby Bridge early in the evening (well before 8.00) a few weeks ago the generator was running. It was audible close to the boat, but certainly not loud enough to bother any neighbours.

Edited November 21, 2023 by David Mack

[IanD]

42 minutes ago, David Mack said:

When I came upon Rallentando moored up at Sowerby Bridge early in the evening (well before 8.00) a few weeks ago the generator was running. It was audible close to the boat, but certainly not loud enough to bother any neighbours.

It was indeed running while we went out for dinner -- and we did nip back afterwards on the way to the Navigation to check that it turned off at 8pm to make sure this setting (quiet hours) worked because we hadn't tested it before...

[CruisingRobin]

We're considering buying a share in a boat from BCBM.  I've had my eye on a particular boat with a layout that fits our tastes and needs, and have been watching it since November of 23 wondering if the offered share would sell.  It didn't, and two more shares came for sale on the same boat.  I'm wondering if there's a particular reason for that.

 

Anyway, We won't be ready to cruise on a share until 2025, as we are booked up with hires for 2024.  Does anybody have perspective on the best timing for buying into a shared boat under these circumstances?  I'd rather not pay for most of a year of upkeep when we can't use the boat this year.  Thoughts?  Experiences?

 

PS, we're foreigners, living in the western US.  We fly in for our narrowboat holidays.

 

Thanks and Cheers,

Robin   

[haggis]

Not sure if there is a good or bad time of the year to buy into a shared boat but if you want to have a say in the next years bookings you will need to buy the share before the next years dates are decided.  I think the next years dates are fixed in the autumn. If you buy a share after that you will have to accept the sellers allocated dates. Might be worth asking if there is a reason for several shares being on the market . They might not tell you but it might just be folk cutting back expenses because money is tight or they may be buying their own boat. 

[robtheplod]

8 hours ago, CruisingRobin said:

We're considering buying a share in a boat from BCBM.  I've had my eye on a particular boat with a layout that fits our tastes and needs, and have been watching it since November of 23 wondering if the offered share would sell.  It didn't, and two more shares came for sale on the same boat.  I'm wondering if there's a particular reason for that.

 

Anyway, We won't be ready to cruise on a share until 2025, as we are booked up with hires for 2024.  Does anybody have perspective on the best timing for buying into a shared boat under these circumstances?  I'd rather not pay for most of a year of upkeep when we can't use the boat this year.  Thoughts?  Experiences?

 

PS, we're foreigners, living in the western US.  We fly in for our narrowboat holidays.

 

Thanks and Cheers,

Robin   

BCBM are a good company to deal with. The syndicates may work slightly differently so be aware. Some build up a pot of cash for large works, whilst others will ask the shareholders to chip in when needed to cover the large jobs - if you're looking for an in, try to avoid the latter just when a new engine/paint job is planned although most syndicates will go easy on you!

 

Living abroad you may not get the best part of being in a share, which is the unexpected week or two that crop up last minute for free as someone elses plans change...... unless you can get over here quickly! 

Edited March 25 by robtheplod

[cuthound]

11 hours ago, robtheplod said:

BCBM are a good company to deal with. The syndicates may work slightly differently so be aware. Some build up a pot of cash for large works, whilst others will ask the shareholders to chip in when needed to cover the large jobs - if you're looking for an in, try to avoid the latter just when a new engine/paint job is planned although most syndicates will go easy on you!

 

Living abroad you may not get the best part of being in a share, which is the unexpected week or two that crop up last minute for free as someone elses plans change...... unless you can get over here quickly! 

 

I had shares in boats for 21 years and because of work commitments only managed one impromptu week in all that time...