Fitting a new water pump...

[Theo]

...on a BMC 1.5

 

What sort of sealant should I used for between the gasket and the steel?  Will boss white do?

 

N

[Sea Dog]

Hylomar red is the water one - although if your engine needs something else I'd defer to superior BMC knowledge.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Theo said:

...on a BMC 1.5

 

What sort of sealant should I used for between the gasket and the steel?  Will boss white do?

 

N

 

Assuming it is the engine water pump. Just the gasket should do, but you could lightly grease it to stick to the block or pump body. If you feel you need to use sealant then I would plump for a non-setting one like Hylomar etc. (bit out of date on today's sealants).

[magnetman]

Why does the water pump need replacing? 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

BMC used nothing!  A smear of grease will do it providing both faces are clean.

[Slim]

Another point worth bearing in mind, assuming that the 1.5 and 1.8 pumps are similar. Pumps currently available for these engines are of far eastern origin and the tolerances they're made to are pretty naff. Offer the pump up without the gasket or any sealant first to see if it will fit. When I changed my 1.8 pump last year I had to drill several of the fixing holes out by up to 2 mm and grind some of the casting away.    

Edited October 7, 2023 by Slim

[StephenA]

16 minutes ago, Slim said:

Another point worth bearing in mind, assuming that the 1.5 and 1.8 pumps are similar. Pumps currently available for these engines are of far eastern origin and the tolerances they're made to are pretty naff. Offer the pump up without the gasket or any sealant first to see if it will fit. When I changed my 1.8 pump last year I had to drill several of the fixing holes out by up to 2 mm and grind some of the casting away.    

The one we got for our 1.5 from Calcutt was a perfect fit.

[Tracy D'arth]

29 minutes ago, Slim said:

Another point worth bearing in mind, assuming that the 1.5 and 1.8 pumps are similar. Pumps currently available for these engines are of far eastern origin and the tolerances they're made to are pretty naff. Offer the pump up without the gasket or any sealant first to see if it will fit. When I changed my 1.8 pump last year I had to drill several of the fixing holes out by up to 2 mm and grind some of the casting away.    

I have not experienced this and I have fitted a few in the last 10 years, where are you buying from please?

[Slim]

10 hours ago, StephenA said:

The one we got for our 1.5 from Calcutt was a perfect fit.

That's where mine came from😁

What's more while I was struggling to get it to fit (dodgy back) i had a full time boat mechanic have a go. He confirmed the problem. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Slim

[StephenA]

2 hours ago, Slim said:

That's where mine came from😁

What's more while I was struggling to get it to fit (dodgy back) i had a full time boat mechanic have a go. He confirmed the problem. 

So rather than raise it with Calcutt (maybe it wasn't the right pump) you just started hacking it to bits?

[Quattrodave]

I wonder what's failed on the coolant pump. If its bearings then just replace the bearings.

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/114439-bmc-22-coolant-pump-refurb/

Edited October 8, 2023 by Quattrodave

[StephenA]

1 minute ago, Quattrodave said:

I wonder what's failed on the coolant pump. If its bearings then just replace the bearings.

Could be that, or it could be the seals. Not everyone has the tools  / skills needed to do bearings, or even if they do maybe they can't be bothered.

[Slim]

10 hours ago, StephenA said:

So rather than raise it with Calcutt (maybe it wasn't the right pump) you just started hacking it to bits?

Two things:-

1) It wasn't the wrong pump, it was simply badly made.

2) I didn't "hack it to bits". I simply ' fettled' it so that it fitted. Some people should not make statements from a position of ignorance (a term used correctly.)

 

 

 

[StephenA]

13 minutes ago, Slim said:

Two things:-

1) It wasn't the wrong pump, it was simply badly made.

2) I didn't "hack it to bits". I simply ' fettled' it so that it fitted. Some people should not make statements from a position of ignorance (a term used correctly.)

 

 

 

 I'd say drilling the holes and and grinding some of the casting off isn't normal. I still suspect it was the wrong pump

[Slim]

5 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 I'd say drilling the holes and and grinding some of the casting off isn't normal. I still suspect it was the wrong pump

Final response. I agree that drilling out holes and grinding off some of the casting is not normal, I never claimed it was. The pump WAS the correct one, it was just badly made (not an isolated case with third world products) .

[blackrose]

6 hours ago, Slim said:

Final response. I agree that drilling out holes and grinding off some of the casting is not normal, I never claimed it was. The pump WAS the correct one, it was just badly made (not an isolated case with third world products) .

 

The trouble with grinding away some of the casting and drilling out holes is what happens if the pump ever needs replacing again? You (or perhaps someone else) might find that the new (well made) pump doesn't fit anymore. I think I would have sent the ill fitting pump back to the supplier for a refund and found a better one rather than start taking metal off the engine.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

The trouble with grinding away some of the casting and drilling out holes is what happens if the pump ever needs replacing again? You (or perhaps someone else) might find that the new (well made) pump doesn't fit anymore. I think I would have sent the ill fitting pump back to the supplier for a refund and found a better one rather than start taking metal off the engine.

Where was it said that metal was removed from the engine block?

I would like to know what brand the pump was so that I could avoid the same problem. I don't know who supplied it to Calcutt. I have never had to alter one to fit. There are 3 different pumps fitted to the BMC 1.5D, two are common, one is rare but as far as I remember they differ to a degree that makes them non-interchangeable.

[jonathanA]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

The trouble with grinding away some of the casting and drilling out holes is what happens if the pump ever needs replacing again? You (or perhaps someone else) might find that the new (well made) pump doesn't fit anymore. I think I would have sent the ill fitting pump back to the supplier for a refund and found a better one rather than start taking metal off the engine.

I assumed he was 'fettling' on the new pump not hacking at his engine !   I can see how someone might put a slightly larger drill through an hole to get the clearance needed, rather than just send the thing back, but once you go down that route you kind of give up your rights to return it if it still doesnlt fit and if when you do get it to fit it still doesn't work properly...

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by jonathanA
x-posted with Tracy.

[Slim]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

The trouble with grinding away some of the casting and drilling out holes is what happens if the pump ever needs replacing again? You (or perhaps someone else) might find that the new (well made) pump doesn't fit anymore. I think I would have sent the ill fitting pump back to the supplier for a refund and found a better one rather than start taking metal off the engine.

The water pump casting, not the engine block. Similarly the holes that needed opening out were in the water pump casting . As for finding a better made item from a recognised manufacturer (the one I replaced was a Quinten Hazell item that I fitted when I did a full nuts and bolts re-build of the engine in the 1990s) you seemingly have little knowledge of old BMCs .

Sorry I didn't answer your question about replacement in the future. Assuming any replacement is made to BMC specifications it will fit perfectly 

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I assumed he was 'fettling' on the new pump not hacking at his engine !   I can see how someone might put a slightly larger drill through an hole to get the clearance needed, rather than just send the thing back, but once you go down that route you kind of give up your rights to return it if it still doesnlt fit and if when you do get it to fit it still doesn't work properly...

 

 

That was the chance I took based on quite a few years experience. Anyway had I not been successful it would only have cost me about £30.

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Where was it said that metal was removed from the engine block?

I would like to know what brand the pump was so that I could avoid the same problem. I don't know who supplied it to Calcutt. I have never had to alter one to fit. There are 3 different pumps fitted to the BMC 1.5D, two are common, one is rare but as far as I remember they differ to a degree that makes them non-interchangeable.

It was in a cardboard box with no obvious markings. I did check it whilst I was at Calcutts to ensure it was the correct version and both I and the fellow serving me agreed it was. It simply wasn't cast and machined accurately. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Slim

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

The water pump casting, not the engine block. Similarly the holes that needed opening out were in the water pump casting . As for finding a better made item from a recognised manufacturer (the one I replaced was a Quinten Hazell item that I fitted when I did a full nuts and bolts re-build of the engine in the 1990s) you seemingly have little knowledge of old BMCs .

Sorry I didn't answer your question about replacement in the future. Assuming any replacement is made to BMC specifications it will fit perfectly 

That was the chance I took based on quite a few years experience. Anyway had I not been successful it would only have cost me about £30.

It was in a cardboard box with no obvious markings. I did check it whilst I was at Calcutts to ensure it was the correct version and both I and the fellow serving me agreed it was. It simply wasn't cast and machined accurately. 

Quinten Hazell made good quality replacement parts, I think many were the engine manufacturer's original supplies. One of the best industries in North Wales along with Hotpoint.  Used masses of them in the day but they seem to have gone now.

Its a bit suspicious parts being in plain boxes, counterfeit?

[Slim]

21 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Quinten Hazell made good quality replacement parts, I think many were the engine manufacturer's original supplies. One of the best industries in North Wales along with Hotpoint.  Used masses of them in the day but they seem to have gone now.

Its a bit suspicious parts being in plain boxes, counterfeit?

Don't know, didn't give it a thought at the time. Checked up on bank statement and the payment cleared 17th Aug 22 (and the cost was not in the region of £30 it was £68

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, Slim said:

The water pump casting, not the engine block. 

 

Ok so at least you could buy a new housing/casting if required. But I still think I'd have sent the pump back and got one that fit rather than bodge the casting.

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Ok so at least you could buy a new housing/casting if required. But I still think I'd have sent the pump back and got one that fit rather than bodge the casting.

Sounded more like fettling than bodging!

[Theo]

On 07/10/2023 at 19:27, magnetman said:

Why does the water pump need replacing? 

 

 

Sorry to be really late replying, Tony

 

The bearing is really loose.  There's lots of lateral play, but, and this I don't understand, it's not leaking around the bearing.  Very strange.

 

Nick

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Theo said:

Sorry to be really late replying, Tony

 

The bearing is really loose.  There's lots of lateral play, but, and this I don't understand, it's not leaking around the bearing.  Very strange.

 

Nick

 

Unless the design has been altered, the seal is a carbon ring in a rubber diaphragm pushed onto the back of the impeller by a spring, a bit like the PSS shaft seal. The diaphragm allows the seal to "wave about" yet still stay on the back of the impeller. i don't find it strange, but you were very wise to swap the pump. FWIW unless you have a decent press and a degree of skill to remove the impeller, changing the bearing is not as easy as some here seem to think. You also need to change the seal assembly.