"Medium" length stern button

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Well only when playing the melodeon with the Morris’s

 Glad to see she’s out of the shed, is she in the water? Any space? Hopefully you’ll get some runs in🤞

Definitely no neckerchief or flat cap, more than my life's worth 🙂

 

It's definitely in the water, see picture a couple of posts up. Rudder/prop/generator ideas seem to have worked. Plan is to have shakedown next week, then over the L&L to Anderton next month. Assuming no stoppages, obviosuly... 😉

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Generator?

When will you run that?

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Just now, Goliath said:

Generator?

When will you run that?

When there’s no sun, so quite often over the next 6 month🌧🌤😂

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

When there’s no sun, so quite often over the next 6 month🌧🌤😂

Yea, plus I’m thinking what happens after a long day moving?

Just run the generator through the night to recharge the battery?

 

Im sure it’s been thought through. 👍

[haggis]

Would it not look better with two short fenders rather than a long one which .may well sag. I know two short ones will stick.put further than a long one but might be a better answer 

[Rob-M]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yea, plus I’m thinking what happens after a long day moving?

Just run the generator through the night to recharge the battery?

 

Im sure it’s been thought through. 👍

That's what I've heard a couple of electric boats do.  We had one we moored up behind in Birmingham, they said hope you don't mind but we need to run the generator when we cook because we are gas free.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yea, plus I’m thinking what happens after a long day moving?

Just run the generator through the night to recharge the battery?

 

Im sure it’s been thought through. 👍

I’m sure if the solar drops too low when moving the generator can be used, remember these are quite big generators, not your Chinese rubbish. 
Quality Kohler units👍

[magnetman]

When I had my loveliest narrow boat (I have had 5 narrows over the yars but Tiger was head and shoulders above the others) I screwed a couple of 3/4 inch round bars orf the stern cants under which I mounted a moped wheel with inflated tyre. The moped was found in the canal. It was quite funny when the police came and I told them I had cut the wheel orf by hacksawing through the shock absorbers and they suggested the insurance might be interested in a claim against my boat fender. 

 

 

 This fender arrangement looked after the rudder nicely no issues but I imagine it may have had some odd looks at times. 

 

I was far too aloof to notice any disapproval back in the day and would probably do the same again in the event of having another narrow. 

 

No photos unfortunately. 

 

The M6 set screws holding down the 3/4 bars each side formed the sacrificial parts. They would have broken had there been any issues. Tapped holes into the 6mm steel cants. 2 on each bar. 

 

It was a good fender but there was a gap between the lower side of the moped wheel and the rudder so if one were to be so unwise as to reverse into a low canal bank the rudder could get struck and bent. 

 

Best to be aware of what the boat is doing I suppose in order to avoid these negative outcomes. 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had a special Tipcat, my fixings were to close for a standard one made up in Warwick next to The Cape pub HOME - GetKotted (getknotted.co.uk)

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

If I wanted to look like a "proper boat" I'd have loads of rivets, an engine room, a roof-full of wood, and a waistcoat/neckerchief/flat cap. I don't, so I don't care... 😉

 

The list of kit for a proper boat would include a decent set of appropriately sized and well fitted fenders long before any of those features came into consideration.

 

Sort yourself a short term fix and then give that boat what deserves and get a decent set of custom fenders.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

“Proper boat for proper boaters” total joke, I’ve seen people(mostly older retired generation) buying boats, never had one or been on one before, they’ve bought the Josher bow, penny washer rivets, vintage thumper engine in it’s own room, stern Tipcats and Buttons pointing skyward, had it sign written with their made up family towing company. Then he’s bought the overalls, waistcoat, flat cap, neckerchief and she’s started Crotchet, painting Roses and Castles on Teapots bought from the charity shop, they’ve started calling the canal “Cut” and drinking Real Ale, where before it was a pint of Carling and half a Shandy, they listen to Folk music and both play the Ukulele badly. They do all these things because they want to be Proper boaters on a proper boat.

 @IanD has a proper boat, as it’s proper for him and he built it properly to fit the needs and requirements for his boating future on the canals. So Good luck to him and his family on their proper boat👍

Edited September 15, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[IanD]

13 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

The list of kit for a proper boat would include a decent set of appropriately sized and well fitted fenders long before any of those features came into consideration.

 

Sort yourself a short term fix and then give that boat what deserves and get a decent set of custom fenders.

 

That's what I'm going to do (longer stern button). Fenders are only for using when moored, and the ones provided are absolutely fine for that, they do the job.

 

14 hours ago, Rob-M said:

That's what I've heard a couple of electric boats do.  We had one we moored up behind in Birmingham, they said hope you don't mind but we need to run the generator when we cook because we are gas free.

 

This is how some of the older "gas-free" boats had to be used because the batteries/inverter couldn't support the high cooking loads.

 

It's not how you run gennys on boats like mine with nice big LFP battery banks and a 10kW inverter and the roof covered in solar. Having done a power audit, when cruising all day in summer I expect to need to run the genny for about an hour a day -- or two hours every other day, or three hours every three days, there's enough battery power to allow this. But an hour once a day -- any time during the day, including while cruising -- makes most sense because this will also provide daily hot water (twin-coil calorifier for genny and diesel boiler). If moored in summer there won't be any need to run the genny at all with 2kW of solar (7kWh/day) on the roof. In the middle of winter all these times go up by about an hour per day because there's bugger-all sun.

 

So yes @Goliath  it has all been properly thought through -- and no, I certainly won't be running the genny in the evenings, why would I need to with a 35kWh battery bank? 😉

 

14 hours ago, haggis said:

Would it not look better with two short fenders rather than a long one which .may well sag. I know two short ones will stick.put further than a long one but might be a better answer 

 

Depends on your definition of "better"... 😉

 

Ricky's fitted the long button fenders to lots of boats (tens?) with the four chain setup like this, and AFAIK nobody has reported any problems with them sagging -- I'm sure if they had he'd have changed the setup, he's always keen to get feedback from customers to improve things on the boats, I know of several examples of this. And I'm reluctant to change something that is known to work for something that might have its own problems, especially if the only reason for doing it is to look "proper" -- or at least, what some people think is "proper". If it ain't broke, don't fix it... 😉

 

3 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

“Proper boat for proper boaters” total joke, I’ve seen people(mostly older retired generation) buying boats, never had one or been on one before, they’ve bought the Josher bow, penny washer rivets, vintage thumper engine in it’s own room, stern Tipcats and Buttons pointing skyward, had it sign written with their made up family towing company. Then he’s bought the overalls, waistcoat, flat cap, neckerchief and she’s started Crotchet, painting Roses and Castles on Teapots bought from the charity shop, they’ve started calling the canal “Cut” and drinking Real Ale, where before it was a pint of Carling and half a Shandy, they listen to Folk music and both play the Ukulele badly. They do all these things because they want to be Proper boaters on a proper boat.

 @IanD has a proper boat, as it’s proper for him and he built it properly to fit the needs and requirements for his boating future on the canals. So Good luck to him and his family on their proper boat👍

 

If people want "proper" boats like @BoatinglifeupNorth described then good luck to them, it's their boat after all. Personally a boat like that is the last thing I'd want, however pretty it looks -- there was one being built at Finesse next to mine and though it was beautifully done I didn't like it one bit, but that's just my opinion -- and I guess the new owners would look at mine and go "Uurgh, nasty modern thing", and they're equally entitled to hold that view.

 

I wanted something which didn't have all the fake "old-style" bits but at least paid respect to some of the canal traditions -- where they don't make it less usable! -- without going down the ultra-modern style with things like big bonded smoked-glass windows like a certain famous boat did, I think portholes powder-coated with the cabin colour are much more subtle. And I certainly didn't want a cratch/cratch cover, or a "tipped-in" cabin, and wanted something without all the curlicues and roses and castles and fake tunnel hooks and a brass headlight on a pole and brass mushrooms and all the other fiddly bits, no matter how traditional these are I just didn't want that style of boat.

 

Some of the "trad" features are there because they're genuinely useful not just a styling contrivance -- for example the roof cross-rail a couple of feet forward of the sliding hatch (see photo) means that in heavy rain most of the rainwater flows back along the roof and is then diverted down to the gunwales through the grooves in the cabin side (visually hidden in the dark blue vertical sections -- this colour also means the solar panels are almost unnoticeable), instead of ending up in the stern area or running down the side of the cabin and staining it -- thanks Ricky 🙂

 

I'm very happy with what I've ended up with, it looks just like I wanted it to ("quietly elegant"?) and has a lot of practical features to make it more pleasant to cruise and live on, and some new engineering ones which have turned out very well -- Ricky says the prop/rudder setup works really well, and the generator installation is the quietest he's ever seen. And if other people don't like some or all of it or think theirs is "better" (which it may well be *for them*) -- well it's not their boat... 😉

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by IanD

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

That's what I'm going to do (longer stern button). Fenders are only for using when moored, and the ones provided are absolutely fine for that, they do the job.

 

I'm really puzzled by this comment. We're talking about bow and stern fenders. They are not primarily there for mooring purposes, although one or other is often essential on a marina mooring.

 

It's useful to have two sets. One a basic set to put on in the marina, especially over winter; the other a decent set to put on when out and about and to take home to preserve over winter.

 

[IanD]

34 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I'm really puzzled by this comment. We're talking about bow and stern fenders. They are not primarily there for mooring purposes, although one or other is often essential on a marina mooring.

 

It's useful to have two sets. One a basic set to put on in the marina, especially over winter; the other a decent set to put on when out and about and to take home to preserve over winter.

 

 

I thought you were talking about the side (pipe) fenders, given the strong negative feeling about these on CWDF -- justified if boats keep them down in narrow locks (like the one who got hung up last time I went through Foxton) or you end up with them round your prop. But just for the purpose of giving a bit of cushioning between the boat and a concrete/steel bank when moored, I don't see a problem with them, they do the job.

 

Given how easy it isn't to get bow and stern fenders on and off with the boat on the water (yes I've tried...), I doubt that I could be bothered with two sets and having to swap them -- and I'm not sure what the difference is between "basic" and "decent" here, unless one is a standard (still not cheap...) black-rope-round-rubber-core job and the other is expensively handwoven entirely from cashmere rope hand-rolled on the thighs of dusky maidens... 😉

 

I'm sure people who have a "traditional" or "proper" boat would only want fenders made how they were 100 years ago out of genuine hemp rope, none of this nasty modern synthetic stuff, to complete the visual picture along with similar ropes neatly coiled into decorative spirals and a water can on the roof with the mop propped carefully up on the handle. If that's what floats your boat, go for it, but's it's not my schtick... 🙂

Edited September 15, 2023 by IanD

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

23 minutes ago, IanD said:

 I'm sure people who have a "traditional" or "proper" boat would only want fenders made how they were 100 years ago out of genuine hemp rope, none of this nasty modern synthetic stuff, to complete the visual picture along with similar ropes neatly coiled into decorative spirals and a water can on the roof with the mop propped carefully up on the handle. If that's what floats your boat, go for it, but's it's not my schtick... 🙂

 I had all hemp fenders, tipcats and buttons once, then realised what a waste of money they were once used and bashed around for a couple of year, rotten and saggy. Then went for the polypropylene synthetic stuff, still outlasting the hemp stuff. I also have 3x rubber pipe fenders which go on whichever side I need them when moored. After a few years you learn what’s practical and what works, I don't see why you would have a two sets of fenders, they’re there to do a job and get bashed a bit, just like rubbing strakes, the clue to their purpose is in the name.

[magnetman]

Don't get a windlass you can put behind your neck or in the back of your belt. 

Elf risk. 

Front of belt is better. 

 

 

a decent rod buoy can work as a starn fender. 

 

 

I see that one is rigid. 

 

You want a squishy one.

[Captain Pegg]

39 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I thought you were talking about the side (pipe) fenders, given the strong negative feeling about these on CWDF -- justified if boats keep them down in narrow locks (like the one who got hung up last time I went through Foxton) or you end up with them round your prop. But just for the purpose of giving a bit of cushioning between the boat and a concrete/steel bank when moored, I don't see a problem with them, they do the job.

 

Given how easy it isn't to get bow and stern fenders on and off with the boat on the water (yes I've tried...), I doubt that I could be bothered with two sets and having to swap them -- and I'm not sure what the difference is between "basic" and "decent" here, unless one is a standard (still not cheap...) black-rope-round-rubber-core job and the other is expensively handwoven entirely from cashmere rope hand-rolled on the thighs of dusky maidens... 😉

 

I'm sure people who have a "traditional" or "proper" boat would only want fenders made how they were 100 years ago out of genuine hemp rope, none of this nasty modern synthetic stuff, to complete the visual picture along with similar ropes neatly coiled into decorative spirals and a water can on the roof with the mop propped carefully up on the handle. If that's what floats your boat, go for it, but's it's not my schtick... 🙂

 

I don't think anyone has a strong negative feeling about the pipe fenders per se, as you say it's boats that cruise with them down that are the issue, particularly if locking.

 

I took your comment to mean you were going to have a temporary off the shelf stern fender and then get one made to measure? That's what I did when I needed to extend the protection afforded to my rudder but was faced with a wait to get the custom made items. That's essentially the difference between a basic set and a decent set; you can have it made out of what you want. I think you'll find a lot of what you might think is traditional rope on your proverbial "proper" boats is in fact synthetic hemp. Most boaters in the modern day recognise the benefit of stuff that floats irrespective of the style of their boat; of course on a horse boat you wanted it to sink.

 

Fenders attract dirt and moss and weeds grow from them which is why if you have a temporary set and then replace it with a custom sized button you'll have two sets that can be rotated to keep them clean. You may be able to jet wash in situ in your marina but I don't have that luxury. Rope fenders need to be preserved which is why I kept my old fenders so I can put them on for a couple of months while on a winter mooring.

 

It seemed to me that you are in a similar position.

 

(Do us all a favour and shut up about "proper boats").

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I had all hemp fenders, tipcats and buttons once, then realised what a waste of money they were once used and bashed around for a couple of year, rotten and saggy.

 

Seconded. I had a lovely bow fender made in hemp for one of my boats. Lasted less than three years before falling to bits, rotten. 

 

Mind you I never got around to soaking it in creosote in a dustbin. This is probably why. Frankly I didn't like the idea of it. Creosote is lovely but I didn't want the fender to drip it in the canal after putting it back on so like you, synthetic fenders for me in future. 

 

 

[IanD]

39 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 I had all hemp fenders, tipcats and buttons once, then realised what a waste of money they were once used and bashed around for a couple of year, rotten and saggy. Then went for the polypropylene synthetic stuff, still outlasting the hemp stuff. I also have 3x rubber pipe fenders which go on whichever side I need them when moored. After a few years you learn what’s practical and what works, I don't see why you would have a two sets of fenders, they’re there to do a job and get bashed a bit, just like rubbing strakes, the clue to their purpose is in the name.

That's exactly what I'm going for... 😉

 

18 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I don't think anyone has a strong negative feeling about the pipe fenders per se, as you say it's boats that cruise with them down that are the issue, particularly if locking.

 

I took your comment to mean you were going to have a temporary off the shelf stern fender and then get one made to measure? That's what I did when I needed to extend the protection afforded to my rudder but was faced with a wait to get the custom made items. That's essentially the difference between a basic set and a decent set; you can have it made out of what you want. I think you'll find a lot of what you might think is traditional rope on your proverbial "proper" boats is in fact synthetic hemp. Most boaters in the modern day recognise the benefit of stuff that floats irrespective of the style of their boat; of course on a horse boat you wanted it to sink.

 

Fenders attract dirt and moss and weeds grow from them which is why if you have a temporary set and then replace it with a custom sized button you'll have two sets that can be rotated to keep them clean. You may be able to jet wash in situ in your marina but I don't have that luxury. Rope fenders need to be preserved which is why I kept my old fenders so I can put them on for a couple of months while on a winter mooring.

 

It seemed to me that you are in a similar position.

 

(Do us all a favour and shut up about "proper boats").

 

 

Thanks for the advice -- I may well get a custom one made, but I suspect I'll never get round to it... 😉

 

Don't see why whether the rope bow and stern fenders are made from sinks or floats makes any difference though, that rubber core means they'll sink either way if you drop one in -- ropes are different, and side fenders if you're going to rip them off against something by keeping them down when cruising.

 

In case you didn't notice, I wasn't the one who started going on about "proper boats" (and by implication, "proper boaters"...) doing something different to me -- and by implication, superior. Snobbery and implied criticism annoy me... 😞

Edited September 15, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

I thought you were talking about the side (pipe) fenders, given the strong negative feeling about these on CWDF -- justified if boats keep them down in narrow locks (like the one who got hung up last time I went through Foxton) or you end up with them round your prop. But just for the purpose of giving a bit of cushioning between the boat and a concrete/steel bank when moored, I don't see a problem with them, they do the job.

 

I have gone back to using rope side fenders for mooring, bit bigger diameter than pipe and more give than slab plastic fenders, I tried gokart tyres but found they flattened out and lost the cushioning effect . Mine you I have collected a good selection over the years never bought any. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have gone back to using rope side fenders for mooring, bit bigger diameter than pipe and more give than slab plastic fenders, I tried gokart tyres but found they flattened out and lost the cushioning effect . Mine you I have collected a good selection over the years never bought any. 

From my experience any fender including pipes works fine, it stops the boat hull grinding and banging against a hard bank especially when a boat comes past. A couple of hire boats which didn't have any fenders were quite annoying, even if tied up fairly tightly you often got a bang and a shudder that rang through the boat, which is not good when you're trying to have a morning sleep-in... 😞

[magnetman]

 

I've been off the narrow ditches long enough to almost completely forget what it was like having a heavy boat passing by inches from my head in the morning. 

 

The country estate boat where I spend most of my time has the advantage of being on a Thames backwater so one doesn't even get irritated by the terrible plebs in their sport cruisers. 

 

Bliss. 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

53 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have gone back to using rope side fenders for mooring, bit bigger diameter than pipe and more give than slab plastic fenders, I tried gokart tyres but found they flattened out and lost the cushioning effect . Mine you I have collected a good selection over the years never bought any. 

Large diameter rope fenders are what folk who are paranoid about the speed of passing boats need.

 

I have to use them to protect against Vulpes’ gunwales going underneath walings and piling caps and suchlike but they also happen to be brilliant with allowing to the boat to roll backwards and forwards with a cushioned motion even with passing boats at high speed.

 

 

 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

 

(Do us all a favour and shut up about "proper boats").

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was i. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Large diameter rope fenders are what folk who are paranoid about the speed of passing boats need.

 

I have to use them to protect against Vulpes’ gunwales going underneath walings and piling caps and suchlike but they also happen to be brilliant with allowing to the boat to roll backwards and forwards with a cushioned motion even with passing boats at high speed.

 

 

 

What are those big ones made of, is it coir ?