Gay community

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Yep, an alphabet soup isn't really necessary. I think that anyone writing LGB+, LGBT+, LGBTQ+, LGBTQIA+ etc is just using a respectful abbreviation for a whole spectrum of sexual and gender identity.

 

Thanks again, and I promise I'm not being picky about this, but:

I agree that the use of numerous different acronyms as you say is commendable in that it demonstrates a respect for the groups involved, and it doesn't matter whether the latest version of the acronym is used. 

The downside I can see of people using lots of different versions of the full acronym that it might perpetuate the idea that these groups are unable to find a collective label they can agree on for more than a few months. 

That's why I personally think that a much shorter and snappier (and permanent) label would be really helpful when identifying LGBTQQIAAP people.

It might gradually find its way into the public consciousness and become the new and permanent word to replace LGBTQQIAAP, and it would have the effect of defusing the jokes and criticisms one hears about this ever-changing long string of letters. 

Maybe part of the LGBTQQIAAP folks efforts in gaining full acceptance should be to promote the use of a more convenient, snappier and permanent name?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

So it seems the Alexis, Alexanders, and even Algenonds of this world will be classes as non-straight when someone uses a contraction of their name - nice.

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So it seems the Alexis, Alexanders, and even Algenonds of this world will be classes as non-straight when someone uses a contraction of their name - nice.

 

Come on Tony, you're a reasonable man. Surely you must know that there would be no confusion at all in that regard. 

When we speak about a person's gender identity, the context of the conversation tells us that we are not referring to their forename, or surname, or any contracted versions of their name. 

That said, I do think you have a valid point in a broader sense-  any collective label for LGBTQQIAAP people would have to be carefully chosen to avoid confusion. 

 

 

 

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Come on Tony, you're a reasonable man. Surely you must know that there would be no confusion at all in that regard. 

When we speak about a person's gender identity, the context of the conversation tells us that we are not referring to their forename, or surname, or any contracted versions of their name. 

That said, I do think you have a valid point in a broader sense-  any collective label for LGBTQQIAAP people would have to be carefully chosen to avoid confusion. 

 

 

It might be easier to say what people aren't -- e.g. "NACH = Not A Conventional Heterosexual", also a handy acronym -- than what they are, when this list keeps expanding as more categories are added.

 

Whether said people would accept a negative label saying what they aren't is another matter -- and entirely their business, not anybody else's (e.g. CHs like me)... 😉

Edited September 7, 2023 by IanD

[Jerra]

To have the abbreviations as an acronym would be wonderful rather than having to say ell-bee-tee-cue-cue-eye-A-A-pee.

 

In case anyone has forgotten an acronym is an abbreviation that can be said as a word e.g. NATO

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tony1 said:

 

Come on Tony, you're a reasonable man. Surely you must know that there would be no confusion at all in that regard. 

When we speak about a person's gender identity, the context of the conversation tells us that we are not referring to their forename, or surname, or any contracted versions of their name. 

That said, I do think you have a valid point in a broader sense-  any collective label for LGBTQQIAAP people would have to be carefully chosen to avoid confusion. 

 

 

 

 

It is the hijacking of ordinary names that have been in long term use and then used by pressure groups to mean something totally different to the accepted meaning that I object to.  Find a new name to encompass all the individual groups and stick to it. However, history suggests that whatever that name is, it will become unacceptable to those groups in time.

[Peanut]

Ally: A friendly association,

Ally: Name, rhymes with Sally

[BilgePump]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So it seems the Alexis, Alexanders, and even Algenonds of this world will be classes as non-straight when someone uses a contraction of their name - nice.

Not really, The more common contractions I suspect would be Al, Alex, Allie, Ali etc. Ally is a word with defined meaning. You forgot all those people called Pan(dora) or Gay(e)

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, BilgePump said:

Not really, The more common contractions I suspect would be Al, Alex, Allie, Ali etc. Ally is a word with defined meaning. You forgot all those people called Pan(dora) or Gay(e)

 

Ah, so Ali and Ally are pronounced differently, are they?

[Tony1]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

It might be easier to say what people aren't -- e.g. "NACH = Not A Conventional Heterosexual" -- than what they are, when this list keeps expanding as more categories are added.

 

Whether said people would accept a negative label saying what they aren't is another matter -- and entirely their business, not anybody else's (e.g. CHs like me)... 😉

 

Yes, that was my thinking when I suggested something like 'alternative sexuality' as a collective label.

Maybe 'alternative gender' would be better, and that doesnt use the word "non-". And AG is pretty snappy. 

 

But either way, it's entirely up to LGBTQQIAAP people what acronym they wish to be recognised by. 

I'm sort of of adopting the role of gay PR advisor, which is rather cheeky of me.  

 

[Peanut]

Ally and Ali, the names, are pronounced differently to Ally, the friend whether country or individual.

 

[BilgePump]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Ah, so Ali and Ally are pronounced differently, are they?

Ally the name is like Ali or Allie, just like Ali can be used as an abbreviation for the metal. Ally the word is pronounced differently.

[Peanut]

If you need a label, you could just say of alternative gender or sexuality, as may be.

I would maintain that you don't need the label at all, it gives rise to discrimination, “they” are not like us.

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Yes, that was my thinking when I suggested something like 'alternative sexuality' as a collective label.

Maybe 'alternative gender' would be better, and that doesnt use the word "non-". And AG is pretty snappy. 

 

But either way, it's entirely up to LGBTQQIAAP people what acronym they wish to be recognised by. 

I'm sort of of adopting the role of gay PR advisor, which is rather cheeky of me.  

 

The problem with AG or AS is they don't apply to all the people listed, gender and sexuality are not the same thing, and some NACH people are neither AG or AS... 😉

 

(we ran into this confusion/description, and had to ask some NACH people to spend several hours explaining the differences -- which many of us CH were ill-informed about, even though we didn't realise it...)

Edited September 7, 2023 by IanD

[Tony1]

17 minutes ago, Peanut said:

 

I would maintain that you don't need the label at all, it gives rise to discrimination, “they” are not like us.

 

That is an interesting point to consider, and I agree that labels for people can give rise to discrimination. But the fact that the LGBTQQIAAP list (acronym?) even exists does seem to indicate that there is a need, occasionally, to describe someone's gender identity/sexuality. 

I've seen it used on forms, and/or in official contexts, and sometimes in conversation.

So my impression is that there does seem to be a need (at least right now) for it to be recognised that a given person is not a 'standard' heterosexual. 

Maybe in future it wont be needed, or given great importance- but at the moment there does seem to be that need for some sort of descriptive label- and I just feel that as long as we need a label, it could do with being a bit snappier  

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

Apparently there are now 74 legally recognised genders :

 

 

Besides male and female, there are 72 other genders, which include the following:

1. Agender: A person who does not identify themselves with or experience any gender. Agender people are also called null-gender, genderless, gendervoid, or neutral gender.
2. Abimegender: Associated with being profound, deep, and infinite. The term abimegender may be used alone or in combination with other genders.
3. Adamas gender: A gender that is indefinable or indomitable. People identifying with this gender refuse to be categorized in any particular gender identity.
4. Aerogender: Also called evaisgender, this gender identity changes according to one’s surroundings.
5. Aesthetigender: Also called aesthetgender, it is a type of gender identity derived from aesthetics.
6. Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations.
7. Agenderflux: A person with this gender identity is mostly agender with brief shifts of belonging to other gender types.
8. Alexigender: The person has a fluid gender identity between more than one type of gender although they cannot name the genders they feel fluid in.
9. Aliusgender: This gender identity stands apart from existing social gender constructs. It means having a strong specific gender identity that is neither male nor female.
10. Amaregender: Having a gender identity that changes depending on the person one is emotionally attached to.
11. Ambigender: Having two specific gender identities simultaneously without any fluidity or fluctuations.
12. Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman and yet does not belong to either.
13. Amicagender: A gender-fluid identity where a person changes their gender depending on the friends they have.
14. Androgyne: A person feels a combination of feminine and masculine genders.
15. Anesigender: The person feels close to a specific type of gender despite being more comfortable in closely identifying themselves with another gender.
16. Angenital: The person desires to be without any primary sexual characteristics although they do not identify themselves as genderless.
17. Anogender: The gender identity fades in and out in intensity but always comes back to the same gendered feeling.
18. Anongender: The person has a gender identity but does not label it or would prefer to not have a label.
19. Antegender: A protean gender that can be anything but is formless and motionless.
20. Anxiegender: This gender identity has anxiety as its prominent characteristic.
21. Apagender: The person has apathy or a lack of feelings toward one's gender identity.
22. Apconsugender: It means knowing what are not the characteristics of gender but not knowing what are its characteristics. Thus, a person hides its primary characteristics from the individual.
23. Astergender: The person has a bright and celestial gender identity.
24. Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space.
25. Autigender: Having a gender identity that feels to be closely related to being autistic.
26. Autogender: Having a gender experience that is deeply connected and personal to oneself.
27. Axigender: A gender identity that is between the two extremes of agender and any other type of gender. Both the genders are experienced one at a time without any overlapping. The two genders are described as on the opposite ends of an axis.
28. Bigender: Having two gender identities at the same or different times.
29. Biogender: Having a gender that is closely related to nature.
30. Blurgender: Also called gender fuss, blurgender means having more than one gender identities that blur into each other so that no particular type of gender identity is clear.
31. Boyflux: The person identifies themselves as male, but they experience varying degrees of male identity. This may range from feeling agender to completely male.
32. Burstgender: Frequent bursts of intense feelings quickly move to the initial calm stage.
33. Caelgender: This gender identity shares the qualities or aesthetics of outer space.
34. Cassgender: It is associated with the feelings of considering the gender irrelevant or unimportant.
35. Cassflux: There is a fluctuating intensity of irrelevance toward gender.
36. Cavusgender: The person feels close to one gender when depressed and to another when not depressed.
37. Cendgender: The gender identity changes from one gender to its opposite.
38. Ceterogender: It is a nonbinary gender where the person has a specific masculine, feminine or neutral feelings.
39. Ceterofluid: Although the person is a ceterogender, their identity keeps fluctuating between different genders.
40. Cisgender: Being closely related to the gender assigned at birth during the entire life.
41. Cloudgender: The person’s gender cannot be comprehended or understood due to depersonalization and derealization disorder.
42. Collgender: Various genders are present at the same time in the individual.
43. Colorgender: In this category, colors are used to describe gender, for example, pink gender or black gender.
44. Commogender: The person knows that they are not cisgender yet continues to identify as one for a while.
45. Condigender: The person feels their gender only under specific circumstances.
46. Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other.
47. Demifluid: Having multiple genders, some fluid while others are static.
48. Demiflux: A combination of multiple genders with some genders static, whereas others fluctuating in intensity.
49. Demigender: The individual has partial traits of one gender and the rest of the other gender.
50. Domgender: The individual has multiple genders with one dominating over the rest.
51. Duragender: Having more than one gender with one lasting longer than the others.
52. Egogender: It is a personal type of gender identified by the individual alone. It is based on the person’s experience within the self.
53. Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics.
54. Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits.
55. Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum.
56. Existigender: The person’s gender identity exists only when they make conscious efforts to realize it.
57. Femfluid: The person is fluid or fluctuating regarding the feminine genders.
58. Femgender: A nonbinary gender identity that is feminine.
59. Fluidflux: It means to be fluid between two or more genders with a fluctuation in the intensity of those genders.
60. Gemigender: The person has two genders that are opposite yet they flux and work together.
61. Genderblank: It is closely related to a blank space.
62. Genderflow: The gender identity is fluid between infinite feelings.
63. Genderfluid: The person does not consistently adhere to one fixed gender and may have many genders.
64. Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together.
65. Genderflux: The gender fluctuates in intensity.
66. Genderpuck: The person resists to fit in societal norms concerning genders.
67. Genderqueer: The individual blurs the preconceived boundaries of gender in relation to the gender binary or having just one gender type.
68. Gender witched: The person is inclined toward the notion of having one gender but does not know which.
69. Girlflux: The individual identifies themselves as a female but with varying intensities of female identities.
70. Healgender: A gender identity that gives the person peace, calm, and positivity.
71. Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding.
72. Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders.

[NB Esk]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

Ally and Ali, the names, are pronounced differently to Ally, the friend whether country or individual.

 

Don’t forget Ally as in Marble.  I remember asking Mother to make me a little pump bag, to keep all my glass Ally’s in.

 

 

 

 

 

[HenryFreeman]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

So it seems the Alexis, Alexanders, and even Algenonds of this world will be classes as non-straight when someone uses a contraction of their name - nice.

 

I think you're grasping at straws a bit here. As someone who's name can be shortened to Al or Ali or Ally, no one has ever classed me as non-straight. You're inventing a problem that doesn't exist and I'm not sure why. 🤔
 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Apparently there are now 74 legally recognised genders :

 

 

Besides male and female, there are 72 other genders, which include the following...

 

Apparently there aren't.

 

Non-binary genders are not recognised in UK law. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) enables a person to change the sex recorded on their birth certificate, either from male to female or vice versa. It makes no provision for the recognition of any other gender.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9515/

Edited September 7, 2023 by HenryFreeman

[frangar]

As sadly this topic now has strayed so far off topic I suspect the OP has quite understandably given up on the fossils on the forum perhaps it’s time I asked what people think of Polyamorous relationships….this is speaking as someone that’s in closed triad….

[Alan de Enfield]

 

27 minutes ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

 

 

Non-binary genders are not recognised in UK law. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) enables a person to change the sex recorded on their birth certificate, either from male to female or vice versa. It makes no provision for the recognition of any other gender.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9515/

 

Yes I was wrong they are not currently legally accepted but, are likely to be in the future.

 

In July 2018, the Government Equalities Office published an 'LGBT Action Plan'. The Government said it would issue a call for evidence on the issues faced by non-binary people. 

 

31st March 2022 a paper "Non-binary gender recognition" was published and can be seen in the HoP library,

 

I seem to remeber that in the last Census there was a question about 'your perception of your gender' (or similar).

 

It is certainly coming.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, frangar said:

speaking as someone that’s in closed triad….

 

Why bring the Chinese into it ?

Edited September 7, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Hudds Lad]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why bring the Chinese into it ?

Don't f*** with the Wongs

[Tony1]

26 minutes ago, frangar said:

As sadly this topic now has strayed so far off topic I suspect the OP has quite understandably given up on the fossils on the forum perhaps it’s time I asked what people think of Polyamorous relationships….this is speaking as someone that’s in closed triad….

 

Well I must admit life was definitely more straightforward with just two of us, and I knew it would be a huge risk introducing others.

But after the initial rush of energy things did become more stable.

But I can't be the only one to confess. I'm sure most people who got lithium batteries will have gone through similar feelings. 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Tony1

[HenryFreeman]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes I was wrong they are not currently legally accepted but, are likely to be in the future.

 

In July 2018, the Government Equalities Office published an 'LGBT Action Plan'. The Government said it would issue a call for evidence on the issues faced by non-binary people. 

 

31st March 2022 a paper "Non-binary gender recognition" was published and can be seen in the HoP library,

 

I seem to remeber that in the last Census there was a question about 'your perception of your gender' (or similar).

 

It is certainly coming.

 

Could well do. I can't imagine I'll be inconvenienced by a change of law so fine by me.

 

Not sure what it'll mean for the ever divisive "toilet issue" if it does come into law. Although seeing more and more toilets which are neither male or female specific so I'm sure we'll muddle through.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Could well do. I can't imagine I'll be inconvenienced by a change of law so fine by me.

 

Not sure what it'll mean for the ever divisive "toilet issue" if it does come into law. Although seeing more and more toilets which are neither male or female specific so I'm sure we'll muddle through.

When it gets to over 74 genders, I think we can safely assume that it's a spectrum, not (to coin a phrase) a position, and that therefore everybody is slightly different from everyone else, and that it doesn't matter much, or affect an individual person in any way whatsoever unless they are looking for a sexual partner. Personally, I've never felt the need to ask an acquaintance about their gender and can't see why I ever would. And as orientation can change over time, it's not useful information for future reference. It's more use if they tell you they're vegetarian, as you have to cook differently for them - you don't have to treat them any differently if they're number 23 or 62 on the list above.

[tree monkey]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

As sadly this topic now has strayed so far off topic I suspect the OP has quite understandably given up on the fossils on the forum perhaps it’s time I asked what people think of Polyamorous relationships….this is speaking as someone that’s in closed triad….

As long as it works for you and your partners who give a toss.

 

It's not for me but to be honest I'm fairly crap at the standard old school me and a hetro female, adding complexity would probably cause me to implode