Unable to bleed fuel filter after filter change

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Why is condensation not a regular problem in a typical car?

 

A typical car that gets filled up once a week, you mean? Just like a typical boat?

[Tacet]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

A typical car that gets filled up once a week, you mean? Just like a typical boat?

What's that got to do with the oft- suggested cause of condensation in a boat tank?

 

A (very) typical car has a full and empty tank in rotation, same as a boat.  So, broadly speaking half empty on average; same as a boat.   Same space, in proportion, for the air within to expand and contract, drawing in fresh moist air each day and condensing each night.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Why is condensation not a regular problem in a typical car?

Maybe because a car generally only lasts 10 years or so, whereas a boat lasts 30 years or more? New boat probably won’t have a problematic build up of condensation within the first 10 years.

[matty40s]

11 hours ago, blackrose said:

Just seems odd not to use gravity to help feed the fuel lines. My tank sits above the fuel system.

Most new boaters nowadays run boats like cars,.....Inhave an inch left, so must fuel up soon....

[Simon P]

9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

 Many thanks for the drawing and priming instructions. Will try again tomorrow.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Tacet said:

What's that got to do with the oft- suggested cause of condensation in a boat tank?

 

A (very) typical car has a full and empty tank in rotation, same as a boat.  So, broadly speaking half empty on average; same as a boat.   Same space, in proportion, for the air within to expand and contract, drawing in fresh moist air each day and condensing each night.

Acceleration, braking and bumpy roads mean a car's fuel tank gets shaken up a heck of a lot more than one on a boat. So a little water from the bottom of the tank gets sucked into the engine, along with the diesel or petrol, and so it doesn't just accumulate in the bottom of the tank in the same way.

[Tracy D'arth]

Self bleeding engines will start, if there is fuel and no air leaks, by opening the "throttle" fully and winding over.

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Self bleeding engines will start, if there is fuel and no air leaks, by opening the "throttle" fully and winding over.

 

Not sure one needs to open the throttle, won't the governor be calling for max fuel anyway at cranking speeds? I've always imagined this to be the case anyway.

 

When I ran my BD3 out of fuel (just as I was reversing onto the fuel pontoon at Napton Marina, dammit!), I could not get it to self-bleed on the starter. One of their mechanics helped me out by suggesting he held the key in the start position while I wafted breaths of Ezy Start about, just enough to make the engine actually run on the Ezy Start fumes. After about a minute of doing this, the self-bleed finally kicked in and it switched over to diesel.

 

Not a process for the faint-hearted, but it worked well.

 

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

One of their mechanics helped me out by suggesting he held the key in the start position while I wafted breaths of Ezy Start about, just enough to make the engine actually run on the Ezy Start fumes

I'm not a fan of Ezy Start. But I did once see a reluctant engine being coaxed into life by stuffing a burning rag into the air intake and spraying Ezy Start onto that. The chap who did it claimed no engine harm would result as the ether would be burned off before it got into the cylinders, but the resultant heated air would make the diesel ignition happen. And it turned out he was right!

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I'm not a fan of Ezy Start. But I did once see a reluctant engine being coaxed into life by stuffing a burning rag into the air intake and spraying Ezy Start onto that. The chap who did it claimed no engine harm would result as the ether would be burned off before it got into the cylinders, but the resultant heated air would make the diesel ignition happen. And it turned out he was right!

 

He was over-complicating things. A reluctant vintage diesel will usually start just by aiming a blowlamp at the air intake whilst turning it over.

 

A lit blowlamp, obviously! 

 

Best not do this on an engine with an air filter on it though, especially not an oil bath type! 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I'm not a fan of Ezy Start. But I did once see a reluctant engine being coaxed into life by stuffing a burning rag into the air intake and spraying Ezy Start onto that. The chap who did it claimed no engine harm would result as the ether would be burned off before it got into the cylinders, but the resultant heated air would make the diesel ignition happen. And it turned out he was right!

Ironically our old Offshore Brucker Capsule escape boats were fitted with an ether injection system and you gave them a shot before attempting to start them, but I don't expect they were bothered if the bores were washed out after a 1000 running hours.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Some version of the Ferguson TE20 (Little Grey Fergie) tractor had a Ki-Gas system with a manual pump on the 'dashboard' at atomise fuel for injection into the engine.

 

The Ki-Gass system, also referred to as Kigass or K-Gas, is "a system of starting petrol and Diesel engines by injecting finely divided fuel in the form of a mist into the in-take pipe." The system uses a hand-pump to spray fuel into the air in-take, thus priming the engine for easier starting.

 

My 'Fergie bach llwyd'

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

He was over-complicating things. A reluctant vintage diesel will usually start just by aiming a blowlamp at the air intake whilst turning it over.

 

A lit blowlamp, obviously! 

 

Best not do this on an engine with an air filter on it though, especially not an oil bath type! 

 

 

Are you suggesting that the plastic and paper cartridge type are better than the oil baths for the blowlamp treatment?

[Simon P]

Thank you to all that contributed it’s now bled and running fine.😀

I deffo should have filled the filter first.

That hand lever was essential too once I found it by feel only.

it’s so cramped in there even the genuine fuel filter only starts on the threads when the support bracket is let go first.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Simon P said:

I deffo should have filled the filter first.

 

Glad you are 'sorted' and it was a simple fix.

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, Simon P said:

I deffo should have filled the filter first.

 

Always a wise idea, likewise with oil filters too.

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, Simon P said:

Thank you to all that contributed it’s now bled and running fine.😀

I deffo should have filled the filter first.

That hand lever was essential too once I found it by feel only.

it’s so cramped in there even the genuine fuel filter only starts on the threads when the support bracket is let go first.

There is loads more info at the links I posted 

[Peanut]

Pre-filling a spin on filter is relatively easy, does anyone have any tips for filling a CAV “kebab” style filter, which has a central bolt to hold it together?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

Pre-filling a spin on filter is relatively easy, does anyone have any tips for filling a CAV “kebab” style filter, which has a central bolt to hold it together?

 

Put the bolt in and push it up against the bottom of the 'container', then offer it up, you may get a small dribble of fuel but it will be a minimal loss as long as you have the rubbery washer in place.

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, Simon P said:

Thank you to all that contributed it’s now bled and running fine.😀

I deffo should have filled the filter first.

That hand lever was essential too once I found it by feel only.

it’s so cramped in there even the genuine fuel filter only starts on the threads when the support bracket is let go first.

There is loads more info at the links I posted 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

Pre-filling a spin on filter is relatively easy, does anyone have any tips for filling a CAV “kebab” style filter, which has a central bolt to hold it together?

 

As, I think, the majority of engines that use that style of filter also use mechanical AC type fuel pumps with a decent priming lever and a higher output than the little things used today, I have never had much of a problem fitting the filters "dry" and then bleeding them using the priming lever. One of the biggest problems I observed with apprentices and the students on the courses was they pumped far too fast and tended to foam the fuel, that then gave problems when it became time to bleed the injection pump. At least with the apprentices, a quip about getting mum to ft them with boxing gloves tended to slow them down somewhat. It takes time for the spring in the pump to displace fuel, so if you pump faster than that you are just wasting effort, you will not prime any faster.

 

Long slow steady pumps, and keep priming for at least 30 seconds after you think you have all the air out, seems to work well.

 

There can also be a problem of low priming output if the operating lever/plunger on the pump happens to be sitting on the peak of the cam shaft eccentric. You need to know what the priming lever feels like when it is not in that position, so you can judge when it is, and turn the engine one complete revolution to get a decent priming stroke. It is likely to be worse on the tiddly little modern pumps.

[Peanut]

Thanks to Tony and Allen, I will have another go, more hast less speed.  The air seen in the glass just seems to move up as diesel comes down.  I have been told to try a Pella to suck fuel through at the lift pump.  Nannie 29Hp three cylinder 3.100 HE. The fuel tank is below the engine.Thanks again.

[Tony Brooks]

54 minutes ago, Peanut said:

Thanks to Tony and Allen, I will have another go, more hast less speed.  The air seen in the glass just seems to move up as diesel comes down.  I have been told to try a Pella to suck fuel through at the lift pump.  Nannie 29Hp three cylinder 3.100 HE. The fuel tank is below the engine.Thanks again.

 

I am assuming that "the glass" is a "glass" bowel on a water trap. If this is so, then the fuel level should go up, pushing the air upwards as you use the priming pump.

 

As Nanni are Kobota based, I would expect it to be self bleeding as long as the start battery is well charged and in good condition. rather than the Pella I think you would be better off fixin something over the fuel breather, so you can pressurise the tank with a cycler pump and football inflater.

[Peanut]

Thanks Tony, I read that here recently, I might try it. It just goes against the grain winding the starter over and over and feels like abuse. I could parallel the house bank to help I suppose.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

Thanks Tony, I read that here recently, I might try it. It just goes against the grain winding the starter over and over and feels like abuse. I could parallel the house bank to help I suppose.

 

Do it in 30 second bursts with a short pause between to give the motor a chance to cool a little.