What you cant do on the towpath

[HenryFreeman]

8 hours ago, john.k said:

Would you believe my next door neighbour has bought his four year old son a motorbike?.......I sort of questioned the idea,and he says ...Oh ,he'll get a bigger bike when he s learned to ride this one.............Did you see the incredible news item this week of hundreds  of young  kids on motorbikes buzzing a cop car ..........when the cops manage to pull one down ,the others are buzzing the cops with wheelies and dirt sprays .

 

Not sure why this is a problem. We wouldn't have some of the greats of motorcycling if they'd started later in life. As long as your next door neighbour instills safety when riding the bike and doesn't let him ride his bike where he shouldn't do then I can't see why you see this being an issue.

 

The problem is poor parenting and if those kids you were talking about weren't causing havoc on motorbikes then it'd probably be stolen cars, knives or something else.

[Crewcut]

If there's not a lot that can be done to stop people buying and using them then should we not try to make them as easy to use safely as possible? Whatever the laws/rules are there'll always be idiots like the one on an escooter going the wrong way at speed in a cycle lane (despite there being a cycle lane on the other side of the road) who head-on collided with a work colleague, a woman in her 60's, knocking her off her bicycle. She broke her spine in two places, was in hospital for months, cannot cycle any longer but at least she was not paralysed. The escooterist did not stop & the police never found him.

 

I'm a long time motorbiker, when I had a go of an ebike I was really impressed with how quick it was, too quick in my opinion for them to be sold to anyone without any sort of guidance/training whatsoever. And if you want to make yours go faster you can watch a few videos on Youtube & do just that...

 

This is an interesting video by a motorcyclist on ebike safety (or lack of)...

Edited August 26, 2023 by Crewcut
sort the link out

[Heartland]

I think e-scooters are far more suitable for towpaths than bikes, if only because the tiny wheels mean slow speed. 

 

E scooters are dangerous and their speed can be a matter of concern. It must be also realized that although there are certain trials being conducted in some places, those that use them require a driving licence and they are not allowed on the footpath. Private e scooters can only be used on private land and are prohibited for use on the footpath or public road.

 

Here some of those people who acquire goods from shops and sell them in the pubs have been seen to use them, but it is getting harder for them as shops step up their security procedures. Matalan by me searches all bags on exit checking purchases against receipts. The number of e scooters seen outside have remarkably dropped in number, coincidence?

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Not sure why this is a problem. We wouldn't have some of the greats of motorcycling if they'd started later in life. As long as your next door neighbour instills safety when riding the bike and doesn't let him ride his bike where he shouldn't do then I can't see why you see this being an issue.

 

The problem is poor parenting and if those kids you were talking about weren't causing havoc on motorbikes then it'd probably be stolen cars, knives or something else.

You're making the assumption that this wheeling problem is caused by ghetto kids from troubled areas. It isn't - they can't afford them (they can only just about afford a decent knife), though they might steal one now and then. Expensive toys are used illegally by the entitled well off, who don't think normal rules apply to them - because they don't come from inner city deprived areas, where of course laws should be enforced punitively.

[HenryFreeman]

Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

You're making the assumption that this wheeling problem is caused by ghetto kids from troubled areas. It isn't - they can't afford them (they can only just about afford a decent knife), though they might steal one now and then. Expensive toys are used illegally by the entitled well off, who don't think normal rules apply to them - because they don't come from inner city deprived areas, where of course laws should be enforced punitively.

 

Are you suggesting that middle class parents can't be poor parents? I didn't refer to ghetto kids or parents. I only said poor parenting is to blame and a bad parent can be from any class or background. Unless you took my "poor" to refer to wealth?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Are you suggesting that middle class parents can't be poor parents? I didn't refer to ghetto kids or parents. I only said poor parenting is to blame and a bad parent can be from any class or background. Unless you took my "poor" to refer to wealth?

 

Arthur has a right bee in his bonnet about class and wealth.

 

As you can see! 

 

[Paul C]

13 minutes ago, Heartland said:

E scooters are dangerous and their speed can be a matter of concern. It must be also realized that although there are certain trials being conducted in some places, those that use them require a driving licence and they are not allowed on the footpath. Private e scooters can only be used on private land and are prohibited for use on the footpath or public road.

 

 

The problem is, towpaths are neither roads nor footpaths. They are private land, which CRT has been obligated to give implied consent of access to the general public. So, riding an escooter would have been legal on them. Up until The Announcement, which withdraws that implied consent (or imposes a condition on it) saying no escooters. All makes sense to me.

[Heartland]

Fair comment from Paul C.

 

Those that use e scooters fall into a diverse group and have in the past led to children using them. I saw one about 8 years old riding an e scooter on the land opposite the Birmingham Library last week, which should have been prevented perhaps. Of course this is Centenary Square and cyclists speed past at a pace, adult e scooter riders cross this square at a high rate of speed and those on various types of single wheeled vehicles also speed here. One has to be very careful in this part of Birmingham

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The danger from tiny wheels is to the rider, and maybe the deaths or injuries of a few kids will encourage some enforcement... except it won't, it'll just bring out the numpties on social media blaming everyone except those responsible ie the riders and their idiot parents.

I think it's fair to conflate all these electric wheeled things, as they are all, without exception, ridden carelessly and illegally and are a danger to pedestrians, whether they are technically legal or not. It is, as usual, another perfect example of technological improvement making life worse for everyone.

 

Sorry Arthur but "without exception" is BS. Too many bikes/ebikes/escooters are ridden carelessly and too fast, but there are also plenty of people who ride them responsibly who don't get noticed so much -- I see both categories every day on the towpaths round here.

 

Used sensibly ebikes and escooters can be a good environmentally friendly way of getting people from A to B, especially those not fit enough to cycle or who don't want to get sweaty on a bike.

 

But escooters are illegal to ride in most places, as are ebikes illegally modified so they go faster than 15mph or don't need pedalling -- and there are increasing numbers of both these around nowadays, because they're easy and cheap to buy.

 

With both these the issue is enforcement, because people break the law if they think they're unlikely to get caught -- and the chances of this are very small in general, and negligible (zero?) on towpaths.

 

I'm afraid that in all aspects of life there are too many people who just do what they want regardless of the rules or consequences on others, and those riding bikes/ebikes/escooters dangerously are just another manifestation of this. Blame the parents, blame government, blame society, blame the escooter/ebike suppliers/modders if you want -- but putting this particular genie back into the bottle is not going to be easy... 😞

[PaulD]

Maybe when towpaths are upgraded to cycle paths there should be speed bumps installed like on the roads. Where possible strategically located on a bend so the idiots don’t see them and it tips them into the canal.
 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Are you suggesting that middle class parents can't be poor parents? I didn't refer to ghetto kids or parents. I only said poor parenting is to blame and a bad parent can be from any class or background. Unless you took my "poor" to refer to wealth?

You suggested that if they weren't playing with bits of gear costing a thousand quid they'd be out hunting each other with knives. The implication was fairly obvious. Of course middle class parents can be rubbish - it's a skilled job being done by unskilled labour. I was just pointing out the (obviously unintentional) incorrect assumption in your post.

[Chewbacka]

13 minutes ago, PaulD said:

Maybe when towpaths are upgraded to cycle paths there should be speed bumps installed like on the roads. Where possible strategically located on a bend so the idiots don’t see them and it tips them into the canal.
 

When towpaths become cycle paths pedestrians will be forced to occupy a narrow strip at the side which only the belligerent or reckless will leave.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Arthur has a right bee in his bonnet about class and wealth.

 

As you can see! 

 

I know a bit about economics, that's all, and have the intelligence to work out who can afford expensive toys, rather than making odd assumptions. Class, as a concept, is more or less a nonsense these days, and has been for decades. Sorry to disappoint you, but I can't help it if you decided to stop thinking in the sixties.

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I know a bit about economics

 

This is apparent. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

54 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Sorry Arthur but "without exception" is BS. Too many bikes/ebikes/escooters are ridden carelessly and too fast, but there are also plenty of people who ride them responsibly who don't get noticed so much -- I see both categories every day on the towpaths round here.
.

 

I'm afraid that in all aspects of life there are too many people who just do what they want regardless of the rules or consequences on others, and those riding bikes/ebikes/escooters dangerously are just another manifestation of this. Blame the parents, blame government, blame society, blame the escooter/ebike suppliers/modders if you want -- but putting this particular genie back into the bottle is not going to be easy... 😞

I exaggerated for effect. There are also a few people who never break the speed limit. The problem is that absolutely everyone (whether 14 or 40) believes they are riding responsibly and well within their capacity, and almost everyone is wrong. Most mistakes, as with cars, go unnoticed and unpunished. What I am saying is that whether legal, illegal, safe or unsafe, nothing can be done about it (unless you want to take personal responsibility and pitch the rider and wheels into the canal) and, as this particular genie was never in a bottle in the first place, we just have to put up with it. It's pointless trying to apportion blame.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

A search brings up this CWDF telegraph message from 1889.

Quote

I'm horrified to see that young ladies are now riding these new fangled "safety" bicycles on the roads and towpaths. The inadvertent sight of an exposed ankle while pedalling causes no end of crashes amongst gentlemen ordinary bicycle and horse riders. They should be banned immediately.

 

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I exaggerated for effect. There are also a few people who never break the speed limit. The problem is that absolutely everyone (whether 14 or 40) believes they are riding responsibly and well within their capacity, and almost everyone is wrong. Most mistakes, as with cars, go unnoticed and unpunished. What I am saying is that whether legal, illegal, safe or unsafe, nothing can be done about it (unless you want to take personal responsibility and pitch the rider and wheels into the canal) and, as this particular genie was never in a bottle in the first place, we just have to put up with it. It's pointless trying to apportion blame.

Hyperbole again -- I very much doubt that the ebike rider who passed me on the towpath last week doing about 30mph believed he was riding responsibly, he was riding (and not pedalling) like a tw*t on an illegally modified ebike and didn't give a s*it about anyone else -- but not everyone does this. Tarring everyone with the same hyperbolic brush either way doesn't make your argument more convincing, if anything it does just the opposite... 😉

 

The genie was mostly in the bottle when to go this fast meant being a fit rider pedalling hard on a racing bike; now with ebikes and escooters with illegal mods, anyone can do it without breaking a sweat -- that's the genie out of the bottle... 😞

Edited August 26, 2023 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

I'm not tarring evetybody with the same hyberbolic brush, nice phrase though it is. Just facing facts. I'm sure your 30mph ebiker thought he was totally in control of his bike and didn't consider he was a danger to anyone, a view reinforced by the fact that he didn't hit you. Everybody's definition of safe driving / riding / scootering / boating is whatever they themselves are doing at the time. It's the other idiots are the problem. 

As seen in this thread, boaters seem happy to use illegal scooters and someone mentioned a crt lockie using one. You can't have a cake and complain about it - like Churchill's (or whoever) comment about prostitution, once you've accepted the principle, everything else is just a matter of opinion.

[wandering]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A search brings up this CWDF telegraph message from 1889.

 

Not the exposed ankles! Who knew it had so much potency?

[matty40s]

6 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A search brings up this CWDF telegraph message from 1889.

 

I'm glad you raised that, it was just before I joined....

[Mike Todd]

On 26/08/2023 at 12:20, MtB said:

 

Arthur has a right bee in his bonnet  an enlightened view about class and wealth.

 

As you can see! 

 

 

[Ray T]

 

 

Fast forward to 24 mins 12 secs.

Electric whatever it was doing a speed he couldn't have stopped for anyone or anything in his way.

[wandering]

15 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

 

Fast forward to 24 mins 12 secs.

Electric whatever it was doing a speed he couldn't have stopped for anyone or anything in his way.

Christ, thought it was a train approaching! Guess someone's got a Deliveroo to get somewhere quickly for that tip... 

[IanD]

41 minutes ago, wandering said:

Christ, thought it was a train approaching! Guess someone's got a Deliveroo to get somewhere quickly for that tip... 

Not pedalling, at *least* 30mph, totally illegal as well as stupid... 😞

[wandering]

22 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not pedalling, at *least* 30mph, totally illegal as well as stupid... 😞

What goes through their minds?! That sort of behaviour belongs on a road, not a bloody mixed use towpath. I suppose my problem is assuming anything goes through that sort of mind. I hate to imagine how I'd contend with that if I were on the path with my two dogs. Probably wouldn't end pretty! What grinds my gears is seeing cyclists use the pavement / towpath as though it were a road because they're scared / not confident on the road. How is the answer to essentially act that way on the pavement and frighten pedestrians?