5kg Patio Gas Cylinder

[magpie patrick]

Before anyone says it - not technically boat equipment until the final question

 

BBQ planned for at the weekend, owner of BBQ has 5kg Patio Gas cylinder but doesn't know how much is in it - hasn't been used for quite a while. Does anyone know how much does a 5kg Patio Gas cylinder weigh when empty? I've googled for this information but the figures given vary so dramatically as to be useless. If I know that the cylinder can be weighed and we can see whether there is enough for a BBQ or whether half cooked burgers and no gas are a likely outcome.

 

This is the small dumpy size of patio gas cylinder - is it suffering the same supply issues as the smaller (3.9kg) red calor gas cylinders? I think they are both propane? 

 

And finally, this is where boats come in - is there any good reason NOT to equip the BBQ with a standard regulator so that it could share cylinders with the boat?

 

Thank you all!

 

[BEngo]

The empty mass of a Calor cylinder is stamped on the neck collar.  Subtract this from the current mass and that is the remaining mass of gas. I have no idea how to convert that into burger-hours of cooking time.

 

Check the BBQ rating plate.  If it says it is OK on 37 mbar Propane then it will work off a standard  cylinder and regulator.

 

N

Edited August 24, 2023 by BEngo

[Mike Hurley]

Just use a proper charcoal one, easy.

[magpie patrick]

29 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The empty mass of a Calor cylinder is stamped on the neck collar.  Subtract this from the current mass and that is the remaining mass of gas. I have no idea how to convert that into burger-hours of cooking time.

 Thanks - the adverts say 5kg is good for 14 barbecues (although how that is defined isn't stated) so I guess we can pro-rata

 

29 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Check the BBQ rating plate.  If it says it is OK on 37 mbar Propane then it will work off a standard  cylinder and regulator.

 

 

Thanks for this too - it appears that patio gas of ANY size isn't easy to find! Hence the question

[Graham Davis]

And I'm sure I read somewhere that Patio gas was a mixture of propane and butane.

[1st ade]

If I'm allowed to slightly hijack the thread, I have a Patio Gas cylinder marked "13 kG Propane" which has a built-in gauge, currently reading "Hi" [the alternative end of the scale is "Lo"] - (I don't know if the smaller cylinders are the same, but this Patio Gas had a weird regulator with a knob which on first activation clamps the regulator to the cylinder and on the second turns the gas on - there is no manual valve on the cylinder)

 

The BBQ went to the great kitchen in the sky last month - If a boater in the Wolverton area wants the cylinder - it's free, and I want to get rid. I can deliver (say) between Fenny Lock (or Willowbridge marina) and Cosgrove - ish; if close by, please ask.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Graham Davis said:

And I'm sure I read somewhere that Patio gas was a mixture of propane and butane.

 

I dont believe so. Because its predominately used outside they normally fill them with propone.

[Graham Davis]

Seems to be either:
 

What is the composition of patio gas?

 

 

Patio gas can be either propane or butane and supplied in a patio gas bottle or patio gas cylinders. Both work equally as well, although propane is preferred in cold weather.5 Aug 2020

[Guest]

Just now, Graham Davis said:

Seems to be either:
 

What is the composition of patio gas?

 

 

Patio gas can be either propane or butane and supplied in a patio gas bottle or patio gas cylinders. Both work equally as well, although propane is preferred in cold weather.5 Aug 2020

 

I think it depends on which site you end up on as I found an example that said propane.

 

So its not clear for sure.

https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/gas-bottles-for-bbq#:~:text=Patio Gas stored in green,as barbeques and patio heaters.

 

Calor say propane.

 

 

[jonathanA]

6 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 

And finally, this is where boats come in - is there any good reason NOT to equip the BBQ with a standard regulator so that it could share cylinders with the boat?

 

Thank you all!

 

No reason at all  just throw the silly patio gas regulator away and fit one to match your boat bottles 

I suppose the slight disadvantage for the hard of thinking is that standard propane bottles need a spanner to change them.

 

 

 

[Chewbacka]

7 hours ago, BEngo said:

The empty mass of a Calor cylinder is stamped on the neck collar.  Subtract this from the current mass and that is the remaining mass of gas. I have no idea how to convert that into burger-hours of cooking time.

 

Check the BBQ rating plate.  If it says it is OK on 37 mbar Propane then it will work off a standard  cylinder and regulator.

 

N

Worth mentioning that the weight on the aluminium neck collar is in lbs not kg.  

[David Mack]

9 hours ago, jonathanA said:

 

I suppose the slight disadvantage for the hard of thinking is that standard propane bottles need a spanner to change them.

Not necessarily.

https://www.bes.co.uk/propane-low-pressure-regulator-1-5-kg-hr-15163/ (other suppliers are available)

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

Worth mentioning that the weight on the aluminium neck collar is in lbs not kg.  

On the 13kg cylinders most boaters use, pounds and ounces. The tare weight of the cylinders seems to vary very widely. I'm guessing the manufacturing process produces a wide variety of finished weights.

13 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Seems to be either:
 

What is the composition of patio gas?

 

 

Patio gas can be either propane or butane and supplied in a patio gas bottle or patio gas cylinders. Both work equally as well, although propane is preferred in cold weather.5 Aug 2020

It will probably be whatever is sold as LPG in the country region concerned. This varies widely. UK it is 100% propane*, other countries can be a mix of propane and butane and the mix can change between summer and winter, with the proportion of lower boiling point propane going up in winter.

*with tiny levels of other gases that it isn't worth refining out and mercaptan for the stink.

[jonathanA]

23 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Not necessarily.

https://www.bes.co.uk/propane-low-pressure-regulator-1-5-kg-hr-15163/ (other suppliers are available)

when I wrote that I knew someone would put a picture of one of those or the plastic fittings that go over the nut to do the same thing. Personally I wouldnt trust you could get enough torgue to get a gas tight seal like that, but I guess if you check with leak detecting fluid afterwards.  however I'd suggest that someone using one of those rather than a spanner is also unlikely to do a leak test.  

[BWM]

The only difference between the two 13kg cylinders is the regulator and the contents are the same. The aluminium disc below the valve will give the full and empty weights in kilograms. Being considerably cheaper, the 13kg propane is definitely the best option. 

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

 Being considerably cheaper, the 13kg propane is definitely the best option. 

 

Yes, as I understood it, 'Patio Gas'is a really expensive way to purchase gas...

[BWM]

36 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Yes, as I understood it, 'Patio Gas'is a really expensive way to purchase gas...

Absolutely, a marketing novelty. The only gain is an easy connection for the lazy! It wouldn't be so bad, but since the launch of patio gas there has been an ongoing shortage of 13/15kg cylinders. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jonathanA said:

when I wrote that I knew someone would put a picture of one of those or the plastic fittings that go over the nut to do the same thing. Personally I wouldnt trust you could get enough torgue to get a gas tight seal like that, but I guess if you check with leak detecting fluid afterwards.  however I'd suggest that someone using one of those rather than a spanner is also unlikely to do a leak test.  

 

We have used one of those hand wheel ones for years and never had a problem with it leaking.

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Yes, as I understood it, 'Patio Gas'is a really expensive way to purchase gas...

Very expensive. We got stung for £55 for a 13kg Patio Gas refill last month.

 

We now have an 11kg direct fill Gaslow bottle waiting in the garage for when the Patio Gas next runs out. It certainly won't take long to pay for itself!!

[magpie patrick]

15 hours ago, jonathanA said:

No reason at all  just throw the silly patio gas regulator away and fit one to match your boat bottles 

I suppose the slight disadvantage for the hard of thinking is that standard propane bottles need a spanner to change them.

 

 

 

 

That was my intention, but I've suddenly realised the 5kg patio gas will fit the boat locker, I'm using the last of the 3.9kg red ones which have now been discontinued and am looking at a messy and expensive asymmetric extension to the gas locker. Are patio gas regulators acceptable on boats? 

[MtB]

6 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

and mercaptan for the stink

 

I'm not entirely sure I buy that. Or there is more to this than first appears. I say this because propane smells completely differently from natural gas (methane), and we gas bods are taught that methane has mercaptan added to it to create the smell for safety reasons. Methane smells of nothing otherwise, apparently. 

 

Maybe the smell of mercaptan changes according to the gas it is mixed into.

 

Does anybody actually know?

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm not entirely sure I buy that. Or there is more to this than first appears. I say this because propane smells completely differently from natural gas (methane), and we gas bods are taught that methane has mercaptan added to it to create the smell for safety reasons. Methane smells of nothing otherwise, apparently. 

 

Maybe the smell of mercaptan changes according to the gas it is mixed into.

 

Does anybody actually know?

 

It was an assumption. I don't get to sniff natural gas methane much these days, so have probably forgotten what the stenching agent in that whiffs of. I only mentioned it because otherwise some nit picker was going to say, ah, but it can't be 100%, 'cause it has something in it to make the smell". Nit pickers will get you anyway! 😀

[jonathanA]

9 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

That was my intention, but I've suddenly realised the 5kg patio gas will fit the boat locker, I'm using the last of the 3.9kg red ones which have now been discontinued and am looking at a messy and expensive asymmetric extension to the gas locker. Are patio gas regulators acceptable on boats? 

no reason for them not to be, so long as the hoses conform to the BSS regulations (wheres Alan DE when you need him  🙂 ). They are similar to the butane 'clip on' regulators on the larger butane bottles. 

 

the 3.9/4.5kg  have not been discontinued but calor are no longer replacing the bottles so they will eventually disappear AIUI. There was a thread about it a while ago.   apart from being expensive those 5Kg patio bottles could be a good option, especially if you don't use much gas.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by jonathanA
minor correction

[Alan de Enfield]

56 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

no reason for them not to be, so long as the hoses conform to the BSS regulations (wheres Alan DE when you need him  🙂 ). They are similar to the butane 'clip on' regulators on the larger butane bottles. 

 

 

If you are tallking on the Low pressure side of the regulator .................

 

All LPG hoses on the low-pressure side:

• must be accessible for inspection along their entire length; and,

• must be marked to BS EN 16436 Class 2; or BS EN 16436 Class 3; or BS 3212 type 2; and,

• must be free of flaws, brittleness, cracking, abrasion, kinking, ‘soft’ spots or joins.

On hoses covered with metal braiding the braiding must be free of signs of damage or deterioration including corrosion and kinking.

 

If it is on the High pressure side (between the clyinder and the regulator) .........

 

All LPG hoses on the high-pressure side:

• must consist of pre-made hose assemblies of suitable proprietary manufacture; and,

• must not exceed 1m in length; and,

• must be marked to BS EN 16436 Class 3; or BS 3212 type 2