WW2 Fire boats

[167cr]

Hi

I am researching the use of canal boats by the Fire Service in Birmingham during WW2 and would be grateful for any information anyone might have about this subject.

Thank you, Chris 

[howardang]

Surely it have been much quicker in most instances of fire for the Fire Service  attend a fire using conventional fire engines, avoiding the need to frequently have to use locks to get to the fire which would have taken too much time? I would have thought that with the use of the red fir doors  which can be found  on many BCN bridges  allowing easy access for hoses to reach the canal water that would have been the better option than employing fire boats.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

[Stilllearning]

13 minutes ago, howardang said:

Surely it have been much quicker in most instances of fire for the Fire Service  attend a fire using conventional fire engines, avoiding the need to frequently have to use locks to get to the fire which would have taken too much time? I would have thought that with the use of the red fir doors  which can be found  on many BCN bridges  allowing easy access for hoses to reach the canal water that would have been the better option than employing fire boats.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

I think you are right about the fire doors being the best way to acquire the necessary water. The doors were pointed out to me back in the 80s and seemed such a simple and effective solution. 

Bristol Harbour however, has a magnificent fire boat. I've got some pictures somewhere taken in 2019.

[Rob-M]

Sculptor was used as a fire boat, a bit of info here, https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/sculptor-returns-to-stoke-bruerne-after-year-long-restoration

[howardang]

3 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Sculptor was used as a fire boat, a bit of info here, https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/sculptor-returns-to-stoke-bruerne-after-year-long-restoration

Yes but Sculptor was used in London rather than Birmingham, as far as I am aware.

 

Howard

[alan_fincher]

10 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Sculptor was used as a fire boat, a bit of info here, https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/sculptor-returns-to-stoke-bruerne-after-year-long-restoration"

 

Quote

she was used to transport a variety of cargo such as cotton and coal from London to the Midlands.

 

Coals to Newcastle?

 

 

6 minutes ago, howardang said:

Yes but Sculptor was used in London rather than Birmingham, as far as I am aware.

 

Howard

 

And, I think, mostly on the Thames, rather than the canals?

Edited August 7, 2023 by alan_fincher

[Jen-in-Wellies]

44 minutes ago, howardang said:

Surely it have been much quicker in most instances of fire for the Fire Service  attend a fire using conventional fire engines, avoiding the need to frequently have to use locks to get to the fire which would have taken too much time? I would have thought that with the use of the red fir doors  which can be found  on many BCN bridges  allowing easy access for hoses to reach the canal water that would have been the better option than employing fire boats.

 

Howard

 

Open up the throttle and the breaking wash would put out any canalside fires as the boat went by. Speedy response and effective dousing in one go! 😀

The two examples given, in Bristol floating harbour and on the Thames would have been to help fight fires on ships, as much as adjacent buildings, I suspect. Also, the deep water would have allowed a much speedier arrival than on a narrow canal.

[Rob-M]

15 minutes ago, howardang said:

Yes but Sculptor was used in London rather than Birmingham, as far as I am aware.

 

Howard

Just providing as an example of a narrow boat used as a fire boat.

[sueb]

8 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Just providing as an example of a narrow boat used as a fire boat.

Strange! My father spent the war on fire boats on the Thames,  including the Massy Shaw, and never mentioned narrow boats being used.

[Francis Herne]

The Home Guard used a motor launch 'Ladywood' as a patrol boat in Birmingham.

 

https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/home-guard-motor-patrol-boat-ladywood.54548/

 

There are a couple of news articles in archives, and a couple of photos, but I haven't seen an account of it being used in anger. I'm also curious what the boat was and where they found it. Must be among the most elegant craft to have graced the BCN!

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Francis Herne

[springy]

Not Birmingham either but I just fount this picture of a Manchester AFS boat in Laurence Hogg's Archive

 

 

And this is in London

 

 

Should have looked further before posting - This IS in Birmingham

 

springy

Edited November 22, 2023 by springy
add 2 more photos

[Sue68]

My father worked on the Massy Shaw on the Thames

[bizzard]

17 minutes ago, Sue68 said:

My father worked on the Massy Shaw on the Thames

Tidal Thames. I had Firebrigade customers who restored it at Docklands, I also did some work on it. Don't know where it is now though.

[magnetman]

Massey Shaw is in the dock by the big blue lift bridge. Canary Wharf estate. 

 

One of the engines (Gleniffer DH8) is knackered sadly I believe due to water ingress via exhaust. 

 

They were talking about putting new units in but this seems criminal however parts for the Gleniffers are hard to find. 

 

She had a sister ship I forgot the name. 

 

13 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Tidal Thames. I had Firebrigade customers who restored it at Docklands, I also did some work on it. Don't know where it is now though.

 

https://masseyshaw.org/

Edited November 23, 2023 by magnetman

[Tim Lewis]

On 07/08/2023 at 20:03, sueb said:

Strange! My father spent the war on fire boats on the Thames,  including the Massy Shaw, and never mentioned narrow boats being used.

Found this picture of a fire narrowboat in London!

 

 

[magnetman]

9 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

Found this picture of a fire narrowboat in London!

 

 

Do you know where this is? Its a great photo. 

 

 

The little mess room cabin is interesting.

[David Schweizer]

Does anyone have list of the narrowboats marshalled as a Fire Service Boat in WW11? I have always understood that Pisces operated as one in London (or possibly in Birmingham), but I have never found any photographic or documentary evidence.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by David Schweizer

[Tim Lewis]

21 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Does anyone have list of the narrowboats marshalled as a Fire Service Boat in WW11? I have always understood that Pisces operated as one in London (or possibly in Birmingham), but I have never found any photographic or documentary evidence.

 

 

This article states that Callisto was used as a fire boat

[David Mack]

Interesting to note that between the Coventry and Trent & Mersey canals they travelled on the "Birmingham Navigations". Presumably the section between Fazeley and Whittington which was built by the BCN when the Coventry company ran out of money. These days most people refer to this as part of the Coventry Canal, as does the Ordnance Survey, but older OS maps show it as part of the Birmingham and Fazeley Canal.

They also seemed to have travelled from the Weaver to the Bridgewater. Via Runcorn Locks? What is the date of this piece? If they did travel via Runcorn that gives a fairly short time window between Arthur buying the boat in 1957 and the last recorded passage of Runcorn Locks by John Seymour in the early 60s.

Edited December 1, 2023 by David Mack

[Mike Todd]

7 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

This article states that Callisto was used as a fire boat

828 lock-miles in just over a week - say 8 full days at more than 100 per day, including down and up the Anderon lift. That is some going.

[David Schweizer]

On 30/11/2023 at 12:10, David Schweizer said:

Does anyone have list of the narrowboats marshalled as a Fire Service Boat in WW11? I have always understood that Pisces operated as one in London (or possibly in Birmingham), but I have never found any photographic or documentary evidence.

 

 

 

Looking through some of my old files, I have just found the text from an email sent to me by Pete Harrison, which confirms that Pisces did operate as a Fire Boat in London during WW11. An extract below gives some details:-

In August 1942 Pisces was hired to the London Fire Service and converted into a Fire boat, operating on the Thames, and based at Greenland Dock/Surrey Commercial Docks. It was fitted with 3 'Large' Dennis pumps, each being rated at 500 gallons per minute. 

 

Edited to add photo which is suggested to be  Pisces as a Fire boat:-

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by David Schweizer

[Tim Lewis]

On 30/11/2023 at 08:04, magnetman said:

Do you know where this is? Its a great photo. 

 

 

The little mess room cabin is interesting.

 

Not sure whwere the photo taken, looks a bit like the surrey canal.  Looks like the boat is Callisto: