Narrow boat or....

[Bubblebuster]

Not to cause division, but what is the attraction of owning a  GRP boat rather than a narrow boat. Does tradition trump the latter and  is cost the final arbiter as it seems to me that you get more 'bangs for your bucks' with a GRP craft than you do for a narrow boat.

Money being no object then a narrow boat is in a class all of it's own but conversely the cheaper and let's face it the sleeker, gets more of us afloat.

 

 

[BEngo]

Cost has to be a starter.

Then " boatiness", some thing a sewer tube does not really have.

Then suitability for waters outside the purview of EA and CRT..

I also think running costs of GRP  might work out lower, over the long term.

N

 

[Paul C]

Cost, mainly.

 

If small, then possibly trailable with a car, meaning you can get to distant (or disconnected) waterways much easier. And save on mooring too.

[Alan de Enfield]

GRP 'boats' are normally conventional 'boat shaped' and in proper 'boat proportions'.

 

No one in their right mind would produce a square box, 7 feet wide and 7 feet high x 50 - 60 -70 feet long. No aesthetics and can only be described as a 'sewer tube'.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

GRP 'boats' are normally conventional 'boat shaped' and in proper 'boat proportions'.

 

No one in their right mind would produce a square box, 7 feet wide and 7 feet high x 50 - 60 -70 feet long. No aesthetics and can only be described as a 'sewer tube'.

That's outrageous. I totally disagree. They can also be described as a floating skip. 

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

Not to cause division, but what is the attraction of owning a  GRP boat rather than a narrow boat.

 

Price. Nothing else, if you are canal cruising. Bloody cold in winter, hard to fit good heating into.

 

If you are river cruising for holidays and leisure and like to venture into easturies and the sea , a big GRP works quite well but they are not cheap. 

 

 

[blackrose]

Some say that the amount of fun you can have on a boat is inversely proportional to its size. That being said, it's not much fun being blown all over the river or canal on a gusty day in light GRP boat that won't hold its position in the water.

Edited July 28, 2023 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, rusty69 said:

That's outrageous. I totally disagree. They can also be described as a floating skip. 

 

 

And, as I have oft posted some skip makers are known to add a pointy bit on the front and say they build narrowboats.

 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No one in their right mind would produce a square box, 7 feet wide and 7 feet high x 50 - 60 -70 feet long. No aesthetics and can only be described as a 'sewer tube'.

History doesn't record just how many bottles of port were consumed each by the directors and consulting engineer of the Trent and Mersey Canal Company, at the meeting where they decide that 70' long by 7' beam was the ideal size boat to design their new canal around. Given the prodigious capacity for alcohol consumption of 18th century gentlemen, it must have been a considerable number.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

History doesn't record just how many bottles of port were consumed each by the directors and consulting engineer of the Trent and Mersey Canal Company, at the meeting where they decide that 70' long by 7' beam was the ideal size boat to design their new canal around. Given the prodigious capacity for alcohol consumption of 18th century gentlemen, it must have been a considerable number.

 

Another example of account ants making all the company decisions ................. "if we make it only suitable for a 7 foot wide boat we won't have to pay for as much 'dirt' to be shifted, and, it'll be quicker'.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Another example of account ants making all the company decisions ................. "if we make it only suitable for a 7 foot wide boat we won't have to pay for as much 'dirt' to be shifted, and, it'll be quicker'.

Where did they get their inspiration from? Neither skips, or sewer tubes had been invented yet. Or were skips and sewer tubes inspired by narrow boats?

More seriously, the Harecastle Tunnel was likely a big factor in the 7' beam decision. It being probably the most difficult civil engineering project at that time in England since the Romans had left. Reducing the tunnel bore size helped a lot.

[system 4-50]

55 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

what is the attraction of owning a  GRP boat rather than a narrow boat

None that I can see?

[Momac]

Narrowboats are perfect for the canals and some folks seem to like living on them.

 

Boats more suited to rivers and the sea tend to be distinctly different to narrowboats. They may be steel or GRP construction. Not usually live aboard boats.

 

There are some small. GRP cruisers usually with outboard petrol engines that are okay on rivers and canals. Not big enough to live on but there are always exceptions.

 

Take your pick.

 

[Bargebuilder]

29 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Price. Nothing else, if you are canal cruising. Bloody cold in winter, hard to fit good heating into.

 

If you are river cruising for holidays and leisure and like to venture into easturies and the sea , a big GRP works quite well but they are not cheap. 

 

 

GRPs are certainly not best for winter cruising due to their often wonderfully large windows and lack of insulation, but it's inaccurate to say that they are difficult to heat, because usually the cabin volume is small and low output heaters cope very well indeed. I have a Taylors diesel heater with a 2kw output and zero 12v requirement, plus a Chinese Eberspacher knock-off that can almost instantly produce 2-5kw, and we are never cold.

37 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 it's not much fun being blown all over the river or canal on a gusty day in light GRP boat that won't hold its position in the water.

Dare I suggest that you don't regularly cruise in a grp cruiser. We have covered nearly 600 miles this summer alone, including on days with high winds, when we've hardly seen steel narrowboats moving at all. Yes, they are light weight, but they also usually have a 'v' shaped hull profile and a shallow full length keel, which actually grips the water surprisingly well. There is, as with all boat types, a technique for close quarters boat handling, but it's easy to pick up and losing control in windy conditions has never been a problem for us; ever! In addition, the power to weight ratio is usually much higher than with a steel NB and a GRP is much nimbler and able to change orientation and speed quickly in order to avoid a collision that would be impossible to avoid in a 70' long 18 tonne NB.

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

GRP 'boats' are normally conventional 'boat shaped' and in proper 'boat proportions'.

 

No one in their right mind would produce a square box, 7 feet wide and 7 feet high x 50 - 60 -70 feet long. No aesthetics and can only be described as a 'sewer tube'.

Some of the designs for those large continental  river cruisers you see  advertised on TV can give our  sewer tubes a run for their money. Totally without character, soulless,  and the nearest thing I have seen to the "Box shaped vessel" which, for those who have studied stability for sea going certificates, will be a familiar term when being taught the basics of stability.

 

Howard

 

[Bargebuilder]

 

Other advantages associated with owning a narrow beam grp cruiser:

 

Having a 'v' profile hull shape, one can moor closer to shallow bank sides than you can with flat bottomed narrow boats. They also tend to draw less water, so getting stuck in shallow canals has never been a problem for us.

Grp cruisers are cheaper to buy: they waste no internal space on a forward 'well deck', this space being fully occupied by a huge double bed that any narrowboat would be jealous of. Our bed is more than 6 feet wide and more comfortable than any narrowboat 'double' bed that I have ever tried. In addition, the longer grp cruisers have centre cockpits and aft cabins, so there is no wasted space at the stern as there is with narrowboats. For this reason, in order to have the volume of internal space that you might find in a given size of grp cruiser, you would need to buy a considerably larger narrowboat. Just look inside a 30ft example of both if you doubt what I say.

 

Narrowboaters often stand for hours, sometimes in the lashing rain, when cruising. With a grp cruiser, you can choose to sit all day in a comfortable, padded helm seat and shelter from inclement weather under your cockpit canopy. Such canopies lower easily when approaching low bridges.

Remember too, that a shorter boat is cheaper to licence and cheaper to moor and can often fit into that last available gap in a prime canalside location. Also, grp boats do not need to be hauled out and 'blacked' every 2-3 years, giving a huge maintenance saving as well. In the last seven years, annual maintenance for us has been engine oil and filters, fuel filter and antifreeze. I check the impeller annually but have only replaced it twice and I slapped some new paint on the deck last year. Average annual cost, far less than £100.

 

I should also dispell the myth that grp boats should winter ashore; this is just not true. They are absolutely strong enough to survive severe winters afloat and their hulls certainly don't need to 'dry out'. If you do overwinter ashore, the cost of craning out and back is offset by only needing to licence the boat for half the year.

The steel hulls of narrowboats are prone to rusting, unless you use the best coatings and never scrape or scratch it off, eventually resulting in the need for patching or complete over-plating: a very expensive operation that is alien to owners of plastic boats.

The other serious problem with steel craft is that of electrolytic and cathodic erosion; the sometimes severe pitting that can dangerously compromise the integrity of metal hulls; steel, iron and even worse aluminium. Grp hulls suffer no such problems, although a small, inexpensive shaft anode will be need to protect their propeller which is likely to be made of bronze. An outboard will have an anode of it's own.

Osmosis is a minor condition that can occasionally affect grp hulls, but it is just a surface bubbling of the outer gel coat, does not make a boat leak, is not structural and has never caused any vessel to sink... unlike the rusting of steel hulls! Osmosis is liked by buyers of grp boats because it offers the opportunity to get a price reduction, but having bought the boat they rarely do anything about it!

 

Grp cruisers also seem much roomier than steel narrow boats. This is partly because cruisers tend to have much larger windows, giving much better views from the saloon. Also, with centre cockpit cruisers, you aren't walking through one cabin to get to the next, so it doesn't feel like you are living in a corridor.

 

Should you want some day to cross The Wash or navigate the tidal Severn, the higher freeboard of grp cruisers and their ability to ride over waves rather than crash through them, taking water into the well deck, make them much more competent boats in lumpy waters than are NBs.

 

Having said all that, there are some features that are desirable in a grp cruiser.

If you intend to cruise any distance, you really want a diesel inboard engine: only diesel fuel is readily available at the canal side and you may have to walk miles to find a roadside petrol station if you have an outboard motor. Also, it would be dangerous and not permitted to carry large amounts of petrol on board.

 

Diesel engines are extremely fuel efficient: my 20hp Vetus diesel uses 0.5l per hour at canal cruising speeds in my 30ft cruiser, that's about a month's cheap cruising from my built-in tank. A NB might use double, triple or even more diesel than that.

If you buy a shaft drive diesel, then you MUST have a weed hatch above the propeller, as you will occasionally pick up rope or plastic or weed that will halt your progress, and without one you are stuck; unless you can swim!

For summer use, we wouldn't swap out grp cruiser for a steel narrowboat. It saved us a fortune to buy and continues to save us money every year to run, but I wouldn't live all year on it!

[BEngo]

9 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

If you buy a shaft drive diesel, then you MUST have a weed hatch above the propeller, as you will occasionally pick up rope or plastic or weed that will halt your progress, and without one you are stuck; unless you can swim!

Not entirely true, though a weed hatch is a  good idea.  Most items can be removed from the prop with a combination of a sharpened  boat hook and some practice.  Really awkward stuff, like spring mattresses will be hard either way.

I reckon to average one weed hatch dive a season in a steel narrowboat.

 

N

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Most items can be removed from the prop with a combination of a sharpened  boat hook and some practice.  Really awkward stuff, like spring mattresses will be hard either way.

 

Or the alternative ..................

 

My JIC 'kit'. (the full 1/2 hour  one and then the 10m hose to a big cylinder on board, and the 5-minute quick inspection one.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Bargebuilder]

15 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Most items can be removed from the prop with a combination of a sharpened  boat hook and some practice.

I'd check that this is possible before buying a grp without a hatch: with an aft cabin, there is no safe way to hang over the side anywhere near to the propeller to give a suitable angle of attack with a boat hook or similar. The only option for using a boat hook would be to use it from ashore and we have travelled many a river where shore access is impossible.

 

In the Nene this year we went through a stretch that was covered in thick blanket weed. After a few hundred yards the propeller had been turned into a green blanket weed football, with only the very tips of the blades visible. Even with a weed hatch and a very sharp serrated knife, it was a real struggle to clear the prop.

 

 

[pete.i]

Having owned both, 2 narrowboats and a GRP cruiser, I prefered the cruiser although all the disadvantages posted applied. It was nimbler, it was nicer to sit in and drive and the cabin was better although smaller than both my narrowboats. I wasn't a live aboard and I don't think I would have considered living on my cruiser. The cruiser was a lot cheaper to buy than both my narrowboats. As for windy conditions, I had problems with windy conditions with all my boats. If the wind took the cruiser when trying to moor up it was much easier to control than both my narrowboats as it was very much lighter.

[Bargebuilder]

16 minutes ago, pete.i said:

Having owned both, 2 narrowboats and a GRP cruiser, I prefered the cruiser although all the disadvantages posted applied. It was nimbler, it was nicer to sit in and drive and the cabin was better although smaller than both my narrowboats. I wasn't a live aboard and I don't think I would have considered living on my cruiser. The cruiser was a lot cheaper to buy than both my narrowboats. As for windy conditions, I had problems with windy conditions with all my boats. If the wind took the cruiser when trying to moor up it was much easier to control than both my narrowboats as it was very much lighter.

I 100% agree.

[cuthound]

The main advantage of a GRP boat over a steel narrowboat on a canal is the ability to charge past moored boat leaving a huge wash and not get shouted at...

 

[BilgePump]

34 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The main advantage of a GRP boat over a steel narrowboat on a canal is the ability to charge past moored boat leaving a huge wash and not get shouted at...

 

My GRP boat's got waterski towing eyes on the back! 

[Bargebuilder]

35 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The main advantage of a GRP boat over a steel narrowboat on a canal is the ability to charge past moored boat leaving a huge wash and not get shouted at...

 

It's certainly true to say that a grp only displaces 2 tonnes of water as it passes moored boats, whereas a large steel NB may displace 18 tonnes of water. It is therefore true that one can pass a moored boat in a grp cruiser faster than can a heavy NB without causing any surging, forwards and backwards of that moored boat.

 

Yet another reason why grp cruisers are not only better in many ways for their owners, but also potentially for other boat owners.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

It's certainly true to say that a grp only displaces 2 tonnes of water

 

My GRP cruiser weighed in at 11 tonnes on its last lift out. (The engines are about 500kg each)

At 5-6 knts there is barely a ripple behind her - very aquadynamically shaped - no great pile of water being pushed up by a blunt bow.