Tyrley Wharf Winding Hole, Tyrley, Shropshire Union Canal

[HenryFreeman]

Some miserable chap has decided to stop boaters using his winding hole. Dunno how he owns a winding hole but there you go.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/25862-tyrley-wharf-winding-hole-tyrley-shropshire-union-canal

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

That’s like a red rag 

Will give me something to do tomorrow 

..then Saturday,

..and again on Sunday

 

 

 

[magnetman]

 

 

Maybe a boundary dispute or two there. 

[David Mack]

I think several of the winding holes on the Shroppie are technically private land. Presumably they either got sold off with the wharf properties, or perhaps they were dug out in the first place by wharf owners rather than the canal company.

[Ian Mac]

It was as I said in the other thread, creating private wharfs with or without winding places together with other rights, about tolls etc, was a method of raising funds and getting rid of objections when the original bill was presented to parliament for the build of the shroppie.

 

[BEngo]

BW sold off an assortment of Shroppie winding holes in, I think, the 50"s or 60's. Not sure why- perhaps to save dredging them, or as moorings.

 

Last time we were that way several had  notices saying they may be used, as the landowner had given permission but they were not CRT property.  A sort of permissive footpath equivalent.

 

N

[PeterF]

When we came through a few days ago there was a boat moored in the winding hole, to be correct it was across the triangular bit parallel to the main channel so the stern and bows were against the bank but the majority of the boat was well away from the bank. There was also a rope across the whole lot with no turning signs on. Given the way the boat was moored it has restricted the width available for winding because you can not get into the point of the triangle by a long way.

[magnetman]

I would suggest perhaps the land owner is either in a boundary dispute or has established ownership and looking to put in a mooring layby. 

 

 

[BWM]

I'd be surprised if it hadn't happened as a result of inconsiderate use by those turning, crashing into boats moored around the wharf or the capping/piling. 

[Ian Mac]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

BW sold off an assortment of Shroppie winding holes in, I think, the 50"s or 60's. Not sure why- perhaps to save dredging them, or as moorings.

Never heard of that before, are you aware of any public records to back that up. I always understood that they were created when the canal was built.
Some are very strange, as the Trust own approx half of the winding hole, (not enough to wind a full length boat) the other half being a wharf and owned by the adjoining land owner.  Like a lot of canals the Shroppie has some very odd legal situations.

As to dredging it does not save, as they scope the mud out of the winding holes to stop it slumping into the channel. Back in carrying days there was no need to dredge the main channel and the only thing which BWB dredged as either rock falls or winding holes.

[David Mack]

42 minutes ago, PeterF said:

When we came through a few days ago there was a boat moored in the winding hole

There's been a boat moored ther for a long time. I remember when the adjacent cottage was up for sale a few years back it was advertised as including a mooring.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, BEngo said:

BW sold off an assortment of Shroppie winding holes in, I think, the 50"s or 60's. Not sure why- perhaps to save dredging them, or as moorings.

 

Last time we were that way several had  notices saying they may be used, as the landowner had given permission but they were not CRT property.  A sort of permissive footpath equivalent.

 

N

Yes, there’s a sign at Shebdon saying that for sure, and I think High Onn is the same.

 

 

[Ex Brummie]

Lots of these situations exist on the Shroppie and were contained in the original enabling Act. Concessions were made to several landowners and in at least two areas, the rules about mooring fees and BSS do not apply to boats moored there. (Obviously, if they move then they are liable to comply).

Looking at the apex of Tyrley wharf, it would appear obvious why the resident is upset. at shebdon and High Onn, BW as it was at the time, piled the winding holes that the owners give permission , 'for considerate use'.

[Pluto]

2 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

As to dredging it does not save, as they scope the mud out of the winding holes to stop it slumping into the channel. Back in carrying days there was no need to dredge the main channel and the only thing which BWB dredged as either rock falls or winding holes.

They would probably have dredged either side of bridge holes, as that was where much of the silt and larger objects ended up. I have also come across dredging of wharfs. Coal wharfs were the obvious ones, but in Liverpool they also had to keep he manure wharfs clear. As to winding holes, when I worked with Charlie Atkins, he seemed fairly adept at getting a boat turned in little used winding holes.

[Ian Mac]

Perhaps I should have been more precise, they did not line dredge.  I was just repeating what I heard during the NAG dredging meeting the other day. 

 

[Pluto]

In the 1880s, when improving the canal using line dredging, the L&LC Co were removing over 1000 tons per week. They had sites for tipping the dredgings every five or ten miles. The canal seems to have been improved from Liverpool to Nelson, and from Leeds to Bingley, with the hope of increasing the tonnage carried by individual boats. The proposed lengthening of the locks to at least 72 feet was considered too expensive.

[Francis Herne]

On 27/07/2023 at 22:46, Goliath said:

That’s like a red rag 

Will give me something to do tomorrow 

..then Saturday,

..and again on Sunday

Just turned Lark around 360° for the sake of it. 31ft so plenty of room even with the chain.

 

The boat moored there does (edit: did already!) have some suspicious paint scrapes where the bow of a carelessly winded boat might be expected to touch it.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Francis Herne

[StephenA]

We had to implement the ability to lock a place in canalplan (i.e. stop it from being edited) because of this winding hole. The History and discussion about Tyrley Winding Hole on canalplan give you some idea of how fractious this got.

[wandering snail]

Time for me to wade in here. The previous owner, who also had his boat moored there, was a generous and happy soul. He was very happy to have boats wind, CRT to moor their work boats there, help out with a very reluctant to move top lock beam and even give away to boaters produce from his garden there. It is now owned by another boat owner, although now it is a 2nd 'home'. The first time I met him was last year when he stopped in his boat to ask about the history of the winding hole, closely followed by the fact that he was in talks with his lawyer to get use of it stopped. Over the next few months he actively strove to achieve this, while, if he was enjoying his second 'home', coming out to shout at anyone who dared use the lock after 5pm in a way that women working the lock found rather threatening. He also persuaded CRT to move the notice on the refuse enclosure to another side of the fencing so that he couldn't see it from his property. Yes, he is within his rights to stop this long used winding hole from being used which thankfully the winding hole owner at Shebdon hasn't done, she is very happy for it to be used. What will happen when boats are stuck by the rather regular stoppages at Woodseaves will be interesting and boaters who are affected by this person's actions are all rather hoping that he'll move away soon. A new owner has got to be an improvement.

[StephenA]

5 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

Over the next few months he actively strove to achieve this, while, if he was enjoying his second 'home', coming out to shout at anyone who dared use the lock after 5pm in a way that women working the lock found rather threatening.

 

So we must remember to use the lock after 5pm and I presume be a bit loud when it comes to communications between the lock workers and the person on the boat.

[wandering snail]

11 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

So we must remember to use the lock after 5pm and I presume be a bit loud when it comes to communications between the lock workers and the person on the boat.

I couldn't possibly comment. 

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, Francis Herne said:

Just turned Lark around 360° for the sake of it. 31ft so plenty of room even with the chain.

 

The boat moored there does have some suspicious paint scrapes where the bow of a carelessly winded boat might be expected to touch it.

So its now chained off?

21 hours ago, Goliath said:

That’s like a red rag 

Will give me something to do tomorrow 

..then Saturday,

..and again on Sunday

 

 

 

 

Apparently now there is a chain. Best of luck.

[David Mack]

39 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

coming out to shout at anyone who dared use the lock after 5pm

So should I aim to pass through at 5.30 pm or 3.00 in the morning?

[wandering snail]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So should I aim to pass through at 5.30 pm or 3.00 in the morning?

Whatever suits, the problem is making sure he's there with a 2nd 'home'. Otherwise you just piss off any moorers!

[Francis Herne]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

So its now chained off?

 

Apparently now there is a chain. Best of luck.

The chain is maybe 5ft beyond the line of the bank, and quite slack. The boat is moored directly across the winding hole parallel to the canal a few feet past that.

 

Goliath is only ~50ft so he might have been able to squeeze around without hitting the boat. Met him pointed south at the Anchor before Shebdon though and he hadn't tried. 🙁

 

The (non-CRT, but clearly regular) volunteer who appeared and helped me down Tyrley locks was great. Mostly went ahead and set locks rather than interfering with my routine. Reducing the bywash flow by letting water through the paddles isn't something I'd have done, but does seem to work...

 

(I just tied up above Audlem top lock, promptly discovered the mooring rings by tripping over one. 🙄)

 

Today's other silly incident - before Wheaton Aston, a tree surgeon walking down the towpath asked me if I'd seen a fallen tree. I hadn't, even after checking the pictures CRT had sent him (big tree, right across the towpath), so he continued forlornly south. I eventually came across it several hours later, in small pieces, in the bottom of someone's boat...

Edited July 28, 2023 by Francis Herne