New P&O Ferries cannot be 'plugged in"

[Alan de Enfield]

Ooooooops !

 

P&O Ferries spends £230m on hybrid ships that cannot be charged at Dover or Calais

P&O Ferries risks being left red-faced after spending £230m on two new hybrid ships that cannot be plugged into the electricity grid in Dover or Calais.  

Lauded by bosses at the controversial ferry operator as “the most sustainable ships ever to sail on the English Channel” P&O will run the battery-laden ships on diesel when they are delivered later this year.

P&O sparked controversy last year after standing by plans to take delivery of two state-of-the-art “superferries” despite its shock firing nearly 800 seafarers in an effort to cut costs.

Built by Guangzhou Shipyard in China, P&O claimed the ships would cut fuel use by 40pc “through a combination of fuel and battery propulsion” when announcing the order in 2020.

“The ship is designed with the capacity to be carbon neutral in the future on the twin assumptions that there are more electric shore charging stations in ports and batteries,” the company said at the time.

But the Telegraph has been told that P&O has not consulted with authorities in Dover or Calais over charging points, sparking confusion among senior port officials. Dover, for instance, does not currently have the network capacity to recharge the ferry batteries and meet its other electricity needs, they added.

One said: “You just don’t order ships without consulting with the port?”

 

Sources close to P&O insisted that it had “engaged at length with both ports about the electricity requirements for our new ships”.

Named Pioneer and Liberte, the two ships will replace P&O’s older fleet and are double-headed, saving time when loading and unloading by virtue of not having to turn around in port.

The prospect of more efficient sailings has led to industry speculation that P&O is preparing to announce a fresh wave of job cuts.

However, the company this weekend said it is “categorically false” to suggest that the new ships would lead to any redundancies.

P&O also insisted that towing on-board electric batteries across the English Channel would not result in a larger carbon footprint.

Despite earlier carbon neutral claims, a spokesman for P&O said “In light of current shore power capacity, our new hybrid ships were never designed to operate on a complete zero emission basis and be ‘charged up’ in-port.”

P&O sparked nationwide outrage a year ago by sacking hundreds of seafarers - some via video message - and replacing them with cheaper overseas agency crews.

It has recently launched the next phase of its restructuring plan by offloading services on Irish Sea routes through an operational sharing agreement with Danish rival DFDS.

A P&O spokesman said: “It is categorically false to suggest that any part of our business is for sale and no meetings have been called in relation to such. We are 100 percent focused on making P&O Ferries the best ferry company in Europe, with the best ships on the best routes.”

 

[George and Dragon]

I wonder how much energy it takes to push a fully laden cross channel ferry between Dover and Calais when wind and tide are both favourable. How long to turn the boat around and head back t'other way? 

 

Can't see anything wrong here at all.

[Guest]

Wouldn't use P&O on a point of principle. Shocking company. There are plenty of alternatives.

 

We were tempted for our crossings this year due to them opening on board pet lounges for those travelling with dogs but I recalled the appaling way they treated their crews last year.

 

I'd rather pay more and use another ferry co. or use Eurotunnel like we normally do.

 

Battery powered or not.

 

Apart from anything else Euro tunnel is electric.

[Naughty Cal]

20 hours ago, M_JG said:

Wouldn't use P&O on a point of principle. Shocking company. There are plenty of alternatives.

 

We were tempted for our crossings this year due to them opening on board pet lounges for those travelling with dogs but I recalled the appaling way they treated their crews last year.

 

I'd rather pay more and use another ferry co. or use Eurotunnel like we normally do.

 

Battery powered or not.

 

Apart from anything else Euro tunnel is electric.

We will be using the Eurotunnel this year.

 

Friends we are travelling with were going to go via P&O for the dog friendly lounge. We convinced them the train was a better option, quicker and (ever so slightly) cheaper to get to the same destination with the dog staying in the van with you.

[robtheplod]

...... and if they did have a charging spot they would probably have to queue

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

...... and if they did have a charging spot they would probably have to queue

 

No doubt it would be blocked by "CMers" (or should that be SeaMers ?)

[howardang]

22 hours ago, M_JG said:

Wouldn't use P&O on a point of principle. Shocking company. There are plenty of alternatives.

 

We were tempted for our crossings this year due to them opening on board pet lounges for those travelling with dogs but I recalled the appalling way they treated their crews last year.  companies within the British Merchant fleet but m

 

 

It was  a great shame to see the ferry company, which bears the name of such a prestigious historic british company behaving in such a manner. Up until quite recently the  P&O name was highly respected and one of the elite British shipping companies, ever  since their start in 1837.  It is very sad to see how they have fallen from grace in many peoples view  in such a fashion and there must be many potential customers who feel, like you, that they wouldn't use P&O Ferries on a matter of principle. However, I'm not so sure that the cruise ship division are having the same type of comments directed at them and indeed I know a number of people who cruise with them and regard them highly. 

 

Howard

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, howardang said:

It was  a great shame to see the ferry company, which bears the name of such a prestigious historic british company behaving in such a manner. Up until quite recently the  P&O name was highly respected and one of the elite British shipping companies, ever  since their start in 1837.  It is very sad to see how they have fallen from grace in many peoples view  in such a fashion and there must be many potential customers who feel, like you, that they wouldn't use P&O Ferries on a matter of principle. However, I'm not so sure that the cruise ship division are having the same type of comments directed at them and indeed I know a number of people who cruise with them and regard them highly. 

 

Howard

 

 

 

I would bet that the cruise ships being a separate company with some directors the same but other different. It would not surprise me to find, if I dug deep enough, that P&O Cruises is just a brand name used by a much larger cruise company.

 

Just remember that the Eagle Steamers on the Thames estuary were branded General Steam Navigation Company but when I used them were a subsidiary of P&O, even had the same colour funnels.

[Wizzer]

From Marketing Week Website.

 

P&O Cruises has launched an advertising campaign to distance itself from the still under-fire P&O Ferries business, as its own brand health continues to decline.

The firm published a full page advert in several daily newspapers on Friday 25 March, supported by a short film running on social media and broadcast video-on-demand platforms.

In both formats, the campaign aims to clarify that P&O Cruises is not affiliated with P&O Ferries and is part of an entirely separate company. P&O Cruises is owned by leisure travel firm Carnival Corporation, whereas P&O Ferries is owned by shipping and logistics business DP World.

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, Wizzer said:

From Marketing Week Website.

 

P&O Cruises has launched an advertising campaign to distance itself from the still under-fire P&O Ferries business, as its own brand health continues to decline.

The firm published a full page advert in several daily newspapers on Friday 25 March, supported by a short film running on social media and broadcast video-on-demand platforms.

In both formats, the campaign aims to clarify that P&O Cruises is not affiliated with P&O Ferries and is part of an entirely separate company. P&O Cruises is owned by leisure travel firm Carnival Corporation, whereas P&O Ferries is owned by shipping and logistics business DP World.

 

I thought it might be Carnival, but was not sure.

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Wizzer said:

From Marketing Week Website.

 

P&O Cruises has launched an advertising campaign to distance itself from the still under-fire P&O Ferries business, as its own brand health continues to decline.

The firm published a full page advert in several daily newspapers on Friday 25 March, supported by a short film running on social media and broadcast video-on-demand platforms.

In both formats, the campaign aims to clarify that P&O Cruises is not affiliated with P&O Ferries and is part of an entirely separate company. P&O Cruises is owned by leisure travel firm Carnival Corporation, whereas P&O Ferries is owned by shipping and logistics business DP World.

Many shipping companies have similar corporate structures where the actual owners can be difficult to winkle out. Howerver, to the average cruise customer this is meaningless. They have very little knowledge of who actually owns a ship. Rather, I suspect that they are unaware of the reality, but shipping company corporate structures have been like this for many many years. As an example, I once worked for a shipping company with a fleet of about a dozen ships, each onwned by a different company. 
 

Howard

 

[Tony Brooks]

I wonder if at least some of the ships are not owned but leased, a bit like many airliners, so the "brand" company is really only the operator, not the owner.

[pearley]

Although nothing to do with hybrid ships, when Southampton published its clean air policy the docks were excluded as the cruise ships need to run their generators all the time they are docked. 

 

I recall that when cruise ships were 'stacked' in Weymouth Bay during lockdown the air quality markedly deteriorated.

 

The newly opened cruise terminal in Southampton (not sure if it's the 4th or 5th) has shore power supply sufficient to supply a ship whilst docked.

[Machpoint005]

So, to summarise: 

 

(1) Leave it to the market to sort;

(2) Ship operators will not introduce electrically driven vessels until the onshore infrastructure exists;

(3) Port authorities will not provide shoreline capacity until there is a demand for it. 

 

And round and round we go, getting nowhere.

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

So, to summarise: 

 

(1) Leave it to the market to sort;

(2) Ship operators will not introduce electrically driven vessels until the onshore infrastructure exists;

(3) Port authorities will not provide shoreline capacity until there is a demand for it. 

 

And round and round we go, getting nowhere.

 

 

You mean the usual government response to many infrastructure problems -- "The market will sort it out" ?

 

Except of course it won't, because a lot of these problems (e.g. public transport) need money spending on them (e.g. subsidies) to make society better instead of being a vehicle for profit-making, so "the market" isn't interested... 😞

[Ronaldo47]

Ironic really that the government's "Clean Maritime Plan" document envisages that about the only form of shipping for which pure  electrical power would be appropriate, is ferries, specifically ferries on short crossings.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Ronaldo47
Document extract added

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, pearley said:

Although nothing to do with hybrid ships, when Southampton published its clean air policy the docks were excluded as the cruise ships need to run their generators all the time they are docked. 

 

I recall that when cruise ships were 'stacked' in Weymouth Bay during lockdown the air quality markedly deteriorated.

 

The newly opened cruise terminal in Southampton (not sure if it's the 4th or 5th) has shore power supply sufficient to supply a ship whilst docked.

 

They are quite bad apparently. There was a plan for a Cruise terminal near Greenwich on the Thames. Locals complained about air quality as a way of preventing the development from proceeding. Don't know what the status is now but I think they usually still more on the ship tier midstream.

 

I bet these ferries have some seriously tasty batteries. Possibly LTO.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Ironic really that the government's "Clean Maritime Plan" document envisages that about the only form of shipping for which pure  electrical power would be appropriate, is ferries, specifically ferries on short crossings.  

 

I'd have thought 29 miles was a pretty 'short crossing'.

Now when we have Plymouth to Santander ferry (which is 478 miles) and Hull to Rotterdam ferry (which is 250 miles) they may well be viewed as 'long distance ferries'

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, pearley said:

Although nothing to do with hybrid ships, when Southampton published its clean air policy the docks were excluded as the cruise ships need to run their generators all the time they are docked. 

 

I recall that when cruise ships were 'stacked' in Weymouth Bay during lockdown the air quality markedly deteriorated.

 

The newly opened cruise terminal in Southampton (not sure if it's the 4th or 5th) has shore power supply sufficient to supply a ship whilst docked.

We were in Cobh S Ireland and on the quay next to this thing with all its generators running is a notice telling motorists this in a no engine idle area 

 

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

You mean the usual government response to many infrastructure problems -- "The market will sort it out" ?

 

Except of course it won't, because a lot of these problems (e.g. public transport) need money spending on them (e.g. subsidies) to make society better instead of being a vehicle for profit-making, so "the market" isn't interested... 😞

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was getting at. 

 

What price public investment in infrastructure? 

[Guest]

On 27/02/2023 at 13:34, Naughty Cal said:

We will be using the Eurotunnel this year.

 

Friends we are travelling with were going to go via P&O for the dog friendly lounge. We convinced them the train was a better option, quicker and (ever so slightly) cheaper to get to the same destination with the dog staying in the van with you.

 

Eurotunnel is always our preferred route as the dog can stay with us. For a bit of extra comfort if we have the 'van with us (which we won't this year) we decant into the caravan and ride the train in that rather than sit in the car.

 

You also don't get some numpty whacking their car door into the side of your outfit as they climb out in the cramped car deck.

[howardang]

I recently saw a film of a car ferry in Scandinavia which was electrically powered  but instead of batteries it took its electrical power from  a long length of cable stowed on large drums on board. In that respect it resembled a modern version of a chain ferry using power cables instead of chain. It seemed to work well.

 

 

Howard

[David Mack]

54 minutes ago, howardang said:

I recently saw a film of a car ferry in Scandinavia which was electrically powered  but instead of batteries it took its electrical power from  a long length of cable stowed on large drums on board. In that respect it resembled a modern version of a chain ferry using power cables instead of chain. It seemed to work well.

 

 

Howard

Yup.