Hi All

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

 

I assume you mean seating for the steerer?

 

I think you're taking your preferences as a single boater and assuming this applies to a family of three, and that's not necessarily correct for them even if it is for you 😉

 

In bad weather a trad stern is great for a single boater, not so good for two (even with an oversized hatch), and definitely not good if you want to have three (or four) people out at the stern while travelling.

 

A cruiser stern is great when moored (and you don't need the bow so much as a sitting area) but horrible when travelling in bad weather.

 

A semi trad is a bit of both, not as good as a trad for one in bad weather but offers partial shelter for more, certainly better than a cruiser -- but isn't so good as a cruiser when moored, or travelling in good weather.

 

Unlike a trad, both cruiser and semi-trad allow the bow to be enclosed if the boat is built like that, giving more space inside (e.g. reverse layout) -- especially good for 3 people in a 58' boat.

 

Depending on your expected use (how much time travelling or moored?) and when you expect to be boating (mostly summer or all year round?) and how many people are on the boat, any of the three might be the best choice -- as usual there's no "best" solution for everybody... 🙂

No I mean seating in the bow after boating is done, ot while boat is navigating. 

I don't think all three are needing to stay together all day and all night. The steerer steers the boat and the others do their own thing. 

I just don't think that a semi trad makes best use of the length of the boat, it's fine for holiday boating when folks are outside and are chatting, making plans for the day, etc etc, but if they are living together all the time they need a bit of space, a choice to move around, and one loses six feet cabin space, which could be a bedroom space lost.

 

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No I mean seating in the bow after boating is done, ot while boat is navigating. 

I don't think all three are needing to stay together all day and all night. The steerer steers the boat and the others do their own thing. 

I just don't think that a semi trad makes best use of the length of the boat, it's fine for holiday boating when folks are outside and are chatting, making plans for the day, etc etc, but if they are living together all the time they need a bit of space, a choice to move around, and one loses six feet cabin space, which could be a bedroom space lost.

 

 

Not in most "modern trad" boats with the engine under the deck at the stern, the usable cabin (down to floor level) starts about 7' from the stern (in front of the engine) in both cases -- of course you also have to allow for steps to get down into the boat, but you don't lose anything like 6 feet of cabin space usable for bedrooms etc.

 

(a trad with an engine room is different because you can step down right inside the rear doors, a semi-trad/cruiser stern makes no sense with an engine room)

 

In the trad case you have some extra storage (about 3'6") inside the stern but little space outside, in the semi-trad you have some external storage in lockers/seats with more space outside for people.

 

The OP has said that he basically wants an in-marina liveaboard boat with several 2-week holiday-boat type trips out every year. Which stern works best for him may not be what works best for you as a single long-term (CC?) liveaboard... 😉

Edited February 28, 2023 by IanD

[LadyG]

34 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Please take advice before doing that.

 

Yep, if you are relying on Benefits you will find they have strict rules regarding for example.

Selling a house and making yourself homeless.

Getting rid of capital in order to claim benefits.

Today's rules will change, perhaps not to your advantages. 

Etc etc.

Not to mention the added stress of all this upheaval all in one week.

I think you must be aware that the advice on this forum is generally to keep your capital in bricks and mortar, houses tend to appreciate and boats depreciate.

Please make sure you have hired for a few weeks, just to see if you like it!

There are hire boats on the Chesterfield which are popular, also on the Rochdale, and on the Leeds and Liverpool. Until you have some experience it seems a big leap in to the unknown. Hirers will generally advise when you take the tiller. The boats are generally reliable, and often a bit smaller, therefore easier to handle. There is no perfect layout, what you think you want may not be what you need!

Edited February 28, 2023 by LadyG

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yep, if you are relying on Benefits you will find they have strict rules regarding for example.

Selling a house and making yourself homeless.

Getting rid of capital in order to claim benefits.

Etc etc.

Not to mention the added stress of all this upheaval all in one week.

I think you must be aware that the advice on this forum is generally to keep your capital in bricks and mortar, houses tend to appreciate and boats depreciate.

Please make sure you have hired for a few weeks, just to see if you like it!

There are hire boats on the Chesterfield which are popular, also on the Rochdale, and on the Leeds and Liverpool. Until you have some experience it seems a big leap in to the unknown. Hirers will generally advise when you take the tiller. The boats are generally reliable, and often a bit smaller, therefore easier to handle. There is no perfect layout, what you think you want may not be what you need!

 

100% agreed, many things on a boat that sound like a good idea on paper turn out to not be so good in real life, I've certainly encountered quite a few over the years... 😉

 

If the OP wants some suggestions for "tryout" boat hires -- such as good companies -- I'm sure the forum could provide some helpful suggestions 🙂

Edited February 28, 2023 by IanD

[mightyslay3r]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just be aware that you are not really allowed to use coal, and wood is going thru' some 'issues' at the moment due to the PM2.5 particulates.

(You have probably read about the call for wood burning stoves to be banned ?)

 

I'd suggest you concentrate on using smokeless fuels - "Excel" is a widely used one, but it will of course depend on what is available at the time you need it.

thats what i meant... smokeless coal

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Exactly. It sounds a good idea but I know that elderly going into care have come unstuck trying it.

Its not something I am in favour of as basically you intend to give your family money and expect me to pay for you to live.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by mightyslay3r

[mrsmelly]

With regard to stern type. There is no correct way. Of the 8 boats we lived aboard on over thirty years we had all types. We greatly preferred cruiser stern, the least we liked was a trad stern, the last boat was a semi trad which offered the worst of both main types. Just sayin, no one can state which is best as we all like different things. Without any question a widebeam is IMMENSELY better to live on, but of course they dont go through narrow locks.

[magnetman]

And it is Columbian coal I'm burning. Something wrong here.

I've lived on 4 different narrow boats. 2 of them were a traditional stern, one of them a cruiser stern and the other a horse drawn barge stern,

 

Of all of them I definitely preferred the traditional but it was just me and the dog. Had I had others to interact with or deal with aboard the craft I think a cruiser stern would possibly be more sensible. I don't have narrow boat any more but one of the boats is a canal boat and has what would be termed a cruiser stern although it isn't a normal type of canal boat in that it is a 9ft beam inspection launch.

 

For winter cruising you really do want a trad.

 

For pleasure cruising with other human units aboard a cruiser stern is more sociable.

 

I dislike the issue of rain and cruiser sterns and find pram hoods rather ugly.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by magnetman

[mightyslay3r]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

With regard to stern type. There is no correct way. Of the 8 boats we lived aboard on over thirty years we had all types. We greatly preferred cruiser stern, the least we liked was a trad stern, the last boat was a semi trad which offered the worst of both main types. Just sayin, no one can state which is best as we all like different things. Without any question a widebeam is IMMENSELY better to live on, but of course they dont go through narrow locks.

but wouldnt a cruiser stern give less living space?

thats why i was opting for the semi trad.. or at a push just a trad

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

And it is Columbian coal I'm burning. Something wrong here.

how do you manage to get columbian coal to the uk?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Please take advice before doing that.

 

 

Seconded. I've an idea there are strict rules barring this idea for benefit claimants.

 

 

[howardang]

6 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

but wouldnt a cruiser stern give less living space?

thats why i was opting for the semi trad.. or at a push just a trad

how do you manage to get columbian coal to the uk?

The UK imports  coal from Columbia to the UK by ship to a number of ports, including among others Hull and Immingham. Last figures I am aware of are 167,000 tons in the last few years - 2021 I think.

Edited February 28, 2023 by howardang

[mightyslay3r]

due to my wife loosing her job, my daughter being on benefits & me being unable to work due to constant pain from 2 groin hernia ops (cant get PIP because hernia's dont come under the PIP umbrella) we are waiting to here from JSA... then claiming universal credit if we can.. until my wife finds further employment.. but there are only part time jobs out there now... i think the only way forward is to get equity from the house... 

a loan would bury us with interest repayment, if any lender would touch us now.

the bank would wave us away i think.... 😒

very limited options... even though we have an house worth £100k to £122k on zoopla.....

[dmr]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

I assume you mean seating for the steerer?

 

I think you're taking your preferences as a single boater and assuming this applies to a family of three, and that's not necessarily correct for them even if it is for you 😉

 

In bad weather a trad stern is great for a single boater, not so good for two (even with an oversized hatch), and definitely not good if you want to have three (or four) people out at the stern while travelling.

 

A cruiser stern is great when moored (and you don't need the bow so much as a sitting area) but horrible when travelling in bad weather.

 

A semi trad is a bit of both, not as good as a trad for one in bad weather but offers partial shelter for more, certainly better than a cruiser -- but isn't so good as a cruiser when moored, or travelling in good weather.

 

Unlike a trad, both cruiser and semi-trad allow the bow to be enclosed if the boat is built like that, giving more space inside (e.g. reverse layout) -- especially good for 3 people in a 58' boat.

 

Depending on your expected use (how much time travelling or moored?) and when you expect to be boating (mostly summer or all year round?) and how many people are on the boat, any of the three might be the best choice -- as usual there's no "best" solution for everybody... 🙂

 

In bad weather one persoon drives the boat, and with the back doors shut and a brollie you can have a lot of weather protection. The other person goes inside the boat where it is warm and cosy and gets some jobs done. There is absolutely no point in standing outside in the rain watching somebody else drive the boat. 😀

[mightyslay3r]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

In bad weather one persoon drives the boat, and with the back doors shut and a brollie you can have a lot of weather protection. The other person goes inside the boat where it is warm and cosy and gets some jobs done. There is absolutely no point in standing outside in the rain watching somebody else drive the boat. 😀

that was my thoughts

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

In bad weather one persoon drives the boat, and with the back doors shut and a brollie you can have a lot of weather protection. The other person goes inside the boat where it is warm and cosy and gets some jobs done. There is absolutely no point in standing outside in the rain watching somebody else drive the boat. 😀

Correction, in bad weather you remain moored up and visit the pub.

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Correction, in bad weather you remain moored up and visit the pub.

In three years I have only once worn my Ocean going oilskins, there is always more time for pottering than locking, places to visit, shops for shopping, coffee and cake at Betty's or canalside cafés, window shopping.

Museums, art galleries, cinemas. 

Then there is gathering firewood, washing the boat, sanding the boat, painting the boat, it's a full time job!

Edited February 28, 2023 by LadyG

[mightyslay3r]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

In three years I have been only once worn my Ocean going oilskins, there is always more time for pottering than locking, places to visit, shops for shopping, coffee and cake at Betty's ot canalside cafés. Museums, art galleries, cinemas.  Then there is gathering firewood, washing the boat, sanding the boat, painting the boat, it's a full time job!

agree LadyG... and it will give me worth again.. it doesnt need to be every day, all day.. i can take my time with my families help.

we are also members of english heritage so can find some houses, castles etc on our travels to visit....

 

also, regarding my post about skimming benefits.. i apologise....

my wife was reading the comments, read my replies and gave me a whack....

i must heed your warnings & do everything correctly... i am still sore about my wife loosing her job for "thinning reasons" or thats what the company said....

so again... i profusely apologise.. i have removed it.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by mightyslay3r

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

but wouldnt a cruiser stern give less living space?

 

Not really - the crusier stern is simply a 'boarded over engine'. The engine has to be somewhere and if it is 'inside' then roughly the same amount of space is taken by the engine and its ancilliaries so the living space is reduced by the same amount.

 

Having a cruiser stern allows you to have a 'pram hood' (framed cover) which actually has the benefit of giving you an 'extra room' (conservatory) which can be used for taking off / storing wet clothing, with the sides rolled up, as a sun shade, with one side rolled down as a wind break when having evening G&Ts.

I consider the cruiser stern as the most space advantageous option.

 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

19 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Correction, in bad weather you remain moored up and visit the pub.

Looking at the weather forecast we might finally get a bit of rain

And I can stay in pub. 👍
might have to stay for a week going by forecast 

[magnetman]

30 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

but wouldnt a cruiser stern give less living space?

thats why i was opting for the semi trad.. or at a push just a trad

how do you manage to get columbian coal to the uk?

 

Someone imports it.

 

Here:

 

https://coalhut.com/offers/colombian-group-2-coal

 

Get it while its there as will be not much longer. Not cheap but the feeling and smell is good. A rebel without a clause.

Or applause.

[Bod]

8 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

due to my wife loosing her job, my daughter being on benefits & me being unable to work due to constant pain from 2 groin hernia ops (cant get PIP because hernia's dont come under the PIP umbrella) we are waiting to here from JSA... then claiming universal credit if we can.. until my wife finds further employment.. but there are only part time jobs out there now... i think the only way forward is to get equity from the house... 

a loan would bury us with interest repayment, if any lender would touch us now.

the bank would wave us away i think.... 😒

very limited options... even though we have an house worth £100k to £122k on zoopla.....

Look up and read "Deprivation of Assets"

You are in the system, once your address changes, with Benefit claims pending, the question of where the capital from the house sale is, will be asked.

Any mortgage repayment will be allowed for, wheres the rest?

If it's not available to you, because of something you did, the capital will be considered as still being available to you, meaning any benefit claim will be reduced, untill it's considered the "capital" is used up.  This will affect all persons named on the house Deeds.

As advised, keep the house, rent it out through a Letting Agent, in general, expect 10 months rent per year, the other two will be eaten up in fees, routine maintance etc.

A good agent will have a group of tradesmen that do work for them and their landlords.  A byproduct of this is the tradesmen will do good work, for a fair price, to keep the steady work coming in.

Equity Release, might work in the short term, but you will lose the built up value in the house, leaving nothing to pass on, but still have all the maintance costs.

 

Bod

[mightyslay3r]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not really - the crusier stern is simply a 'boarded over engine'. The engine has to be somewhere and if it is 'inside' then roughly the same amount of space is taken by the engine and its ancilliaries so the living space is reduced by the same amount.

 

Having a cruiser stern allows you to have a 'pram hood' (framed cover) which actually has the benefit of giving you an 'extra room' (conservatory) which can be used for taking off / storing wet clothing, with the sides rolled up, as a sun shade, with one side rolled down as a wind break when having evening G&Ts.

I consider the cruiser stern as the most space advantageous option.

 

 

 

ahh ok, i didnt think about it like that.. neither did the wife lol... she drinks alcohol.. i stick to tea  

[magnetman]

For boat shape I think there is a very good argument for a traditional with the engine forward of a back cabin but instead of the engine being a great big thing you put a small one in and box over it and use the area as utility room. Walk through it to the back cabin.

 

A back cabin is quite nice if done right. A way to socially distance from other vessel occupants.

 

I know you get lower headroom in the back cabin due to shafting but this is not the end of the world.

Edited February 28, 2023 by magnetman

[mightyslay3r]

2 minutes ago, Bod said:

Look up and read "Deprivation of Assets"

You are in the system, once your address changes, with Benefit claims pending, the question of where the capital from the house sale is, will be asked.

Any mortgage repayment will be allowed for, wheres the rest?

If it's not available to you, because of something you did, the capital will be considered as still being available to you, meaning any benefit claim will be reduced, untill it's considered the "capital" is used up.  This will affect all persons named on the house Deeds.

As advised, keep the house, rent it out through a Letting Agent, in general, expect 10 months rent per year, the other two will be eaten up in fees, routine maintance etc.

A good agent will have a group of tradesmen that do work for them and their landlords.  A byproduct of this is the tradesmen will do good work, for a fair price, to keep the steady work coming in.

Equity Release, might work in the short term, but you will lose the built up value in the house, leaving nothing to pass on, but still have all the maintance costs.

 

Bod

fully understand this Bod, but its also classed has an income in the DWP's eyes.. so even more reduction of benefits....

lived here 23 years... had enough of the A holes on the street to be honest... just want a simpler life....

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

For boat shape I think there is a very good argument for a traditional with the engine forward of a back cabin but instead of the engine being a great big thing you put a small one in and box over it and use the area as utility room. Walk through it to the back cabin.

 

A back cabin is quite nice if done right. A way to socially distance from other vessel occupants.

 

I know you get lower headroom in the back cabin due to shafting but this is not the end of the world.

 

And of course with correctly designed back cabin you can live in it completely independently from the rest of the boat. Can be necessary after a bad argument, for example. 

 

 

[mightyslay3r]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

And of course with correctly designed back cabin you can live in it completely independently from the rest of the boat. Can be necessary after a bad argument, for example. 

 

 

or somewhere to stow the body ah ah