Small or big first boat for live aboard?

[bluelapsing]

Hi everyone - having benefitted from a lot of reading here and conversations on the canal and in local marinas, I'm pretty much settled on the wisdom of biding my time and buying the best boat possible first-time round.

 

At the same time, there's an absolutely tiny one that I like and which would allow me to keep 10k back for maintenance/repairs/cosmetic work: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/golden-nook-boats-24-cruiser-stern-for-sale/698081

 

For the money I'd potentially save starting so small I think it might be worth getting a survey done and making an offer, but thought I'd check what the good folk here recommend first: could this be a good idea for someone looking to get into boating, or stay well away?

 

Any advice or recommendations very much appreciated. 

 

Cheers. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Golden Nook made some very nice boats.

24' is very small even for one person to live on especially as its cruiser stern, the cabin length will be tiny. Can you be comfortable in such a small cluttered space for days on end when the weather is to bad to move? 

Vetus engine spares horrendously expensive. It must be more than 10cc! Could be 10 HP

Its at London prices, would be a lot less if sold up north. Over priced.

 

Easy to wind just about anywhere.

Dated but solid looking fitout typical of the builder.

Old 2017 survey may have some value if it has been well cared for and the hull maintenance good ever since.

 If you are happy, use it for a while then upsize but you will not get your money back when you sell as its very small, over priced and 27 years old & getting older by the day.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, bluelapsing said:

Hi everyone - having benefitted from a lot of reading here and conversations on the canal and in local marinas, I'm pretty much settled on the wisdom of biding my time and buying the best boat possible first-time round.

 

At the same time, there's an absolutely tiny one that I like and which would allow me to keep 10k back for maintenance/repairs/cosmetic work: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/golden-nook-boats-24-cruiser-stern-for-sale/698081

 

For the money I'd potentially save starting so small I think it might be worth getting a survey done and making an offer, but thought I'd check what the good folk here recommend first: could this be a good idea for someone looking to get into boating, or stay well away?

 

Any advice or recommendations very much appreciated. 

 

Cheers. 

 

 

I assume you will still be working and building up capital rather than dripping the £10K. This is really too small to live on, you will hardly get a change of clothes on it, and unless it's just for sleeping on, then I'd go for something  reasonable size. 

Most likely prices in London will be higher than elsewhere, but cash is king, so keep looking and be ready to offer cash discounted for something decent. It would be best to survey, but unfortunately that takes time to arrange. Obviously you need to be cautious.

There are quite a few boats around the £40K mark that look more suitable, but at £25K, you are looking at a more risky , smaller, older proposition.you could go to Venetian marina for a good look at lots of boats in one location which would give you a better idea of the market. Take a boat savvy friend if possible.

Even in a bouyant market you still have to accept that the extra money you spend on the boat when you buy it is for your own comfort rather than adding value, and any work you have to pay someone to do will be eye-wateringly expensive, and difficult in London.

Join the London boaters Facebook for advice.

You could consider a glass fibre, GRP cruiser as these are much cheaper, but not as warm and dry as active N B with a good solid fuel stove..

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, bluelapsing said:

Hi everyone - having benefitted from a lot of reading here and conversations on the canal and in local marinas, I'm pretty much settled on the wisdom of biding my time and buying the best boat possible first-time round.

 

At the same time, there's an absolutely tiny one that I like and which would allow me to keep 10k back for maintenance/repairs/cosmetic work: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/golden-nook-boats-24-cruiser-stern-for-sale/698081

 

For the money I'd potentially save starting so small I think it might be worth getting a survey done and making an offer, but thought I'd check what the good folk here recommend first: could this be a good idea for someone looking to get into boating, or stay well away?

 

Any advice or recommendations very much appreciated. 

 

Cheers. 

 

 

I don't know how many misprints there are in that add, engine size for one, but the engine service, last done 3 years ago caught my eye.

[Alan de Enfield]

Having been there, done it and regretted it, it is 'the bed'.

 

In a boat this size (as the advert says) it is a seat during the day and has to be 'made' every night and put away every morning - it may not be much of a problem, for 'the weekend' it is not, but living on board it is a huge irritation that grows and grows and festers the longer you are on board.

 

No, its not physically a problem but you have to store the bed clothes somewhere (under the bed - which uses up the storage space normally used for other things) you have to fold out the bed, pull out the legs, put the cushions down (which are not as comfortable as a mattress), make the bed.

In the morning it is a reverse.

 

It just grates.

 

Apart from that it looks well equipped.

 

With a 24  foot boat - take off (say) 7 feet for the cruiser stern and 5 feet for the bow and you are left with an internal space of about 12 feet x 6 feet Take 4 feet off for the bathroom  leaving about 8 feet x 6 feet for the, kitchen, bedroom and sitting room.

Try marking out somewhere a 6 foot high x 8 feet long x 6 feet wide space  and see if you think you could live in that.

 

Good luck.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Hurley]

6X6X12 feet is about the same as a camper van which many people live in, depends on your style of life, takes 5 mins to put the bed up and down. My Seamaster 25 had a dinette style bed and a V birth but i always made up the dinette one as it was more comfy. A fixed bed is a waste of space once you are up, fine on a big boat, it is well equipped though.

[David Mack]

51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

With a 24  foot boat - take off (say) 7 feet for the cruiser stern and 5 feet for the bow and you are left with an internal space of about 12 feet x 6 feet Take 4 feet off for the bathroom  leaving about 8 feet x 6 feet for the, kitchen, bedroom and sitting room.

The photos would suggest the cabin is somewhat longer than that. No photos of the back end, but it must be more like a trad stern deck in length, despite the description.

[mrsmelly]

Everyone is different. Our first liveaboard was 56 feet, our second was 42 feet. We found that 42 feet was no where near big enough so only owned it a few weeks and sold it. We discovered that for us in the end the last twenty years we didnt go below 65 feet and where happy above that. There is more room in many vans than that boat.

[peterboat]

18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Everyone is different. Our first liveaboard was 56 feet, our second was 42 feet. We found that 42 feet was no where near big enough so only owned it a few weeks and sold it. We discovered that for us in the end the last twenty years we didnt go below 65 feet and where happy above that. There is more room in many vans than that boat.

Sometimes our widebeam with wheelhouse isn't big enough Tim. 

I am just doing our LT46 minibus conversion because we have outgrown the Type 25, Mick as I have called him should do us for a few years in the UK as I still haven't renewed the passport and can't think of a reason to do so

[dmr]

It depends on you, your lifestyle and your age etc etc.

Are you single, do you aspire to stay single, do you have any "collecting" hobbies, multiple large dogs?, etc.

In our case we observed other people moving up the "boating ladder" and decided that with a bit of thought and planning it should be possible to "get the last boat first" and avoid all the boat selling and buying stress.

[Tony Brooks]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that such a short narrowboat is likely to be very tender so is likely to rock about far more than  a longer boat when people move about inside. Even just by turning over in bed. You will get used to it but it can very disconcerting at first.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Sometimes our widebeam with wheelhouse isn't big enough Tim. 

I am just doing our LT46 minibus conversion because we have outgrown the Type 25, Mick as I have called him should do us for a few years in the UK as I still haven't renewed the passport and can't think of a reason to do so

Funnily enough, I havnt renewed my passport, it ran out quite a few years ago now. No point, been there, done that. Besides when the Worlds governments stop allowing air travel for holidays a passport will be even less use. Still, we are well on the way to saving the planet now arent we? just think, as from october we will not be able to buy or use single use plastic forks in the UK, the difference to the air will be amazing 😂

[Cheese]

Welcome to the forum. You don't give many clues as to your location or expected use or lifestyle. Working or retired? Location? Looking to liveaboard fulltime or weekends only? Moving only the minimum required, or travelling around the system? Just you, or others/pets as well?

 

This is a London-priced boat. Even if you want to live in London you could probably get better value elsewhere in the country, and move it there. It is always worth keeping some money in a reserve fund; there will be unexpected expenses arising however good the boat looks at first sight.

 

Not sure I would want to take a 24ft narrowboat on a river much, as it may tend to bob around a bit, but if you are sticking to canals that wouldn't be an issue.

 

As others have said, if have lived in a van in the past a small boat may suit you.

[bluelapsing]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Welcome to the forum. You don't give many clues as to your location or expected use or lifestyle. Working or retired? Location? Looking to liveaboard fulltime or weekends only? Moving only the minimum required, or travelling around the system? Just you, or others/pets as well?

 

This is a London-priced boat. Even if you want to live in London you could probably get better value elsewhere in the country, and move it there. It is always worth keeping some money in a reserve fund; there will be unexpected expenses arising however good the boat looks at first sight.

 

Not sure I would want to take a 24ft narrowboat on a river much, as it may tend to bob around a bit, but if you are sticking to canals that wouldn't be an issue.

 

As others have said, if have lived in a van in the past a small boat may suit you.

 

Thank you - working from home in the midlands, moving the minimum required and just me initially, but all of the potential problems mentioned in this thread could become quite ~acute (and quite abruptly) should circumstances change in future. 

 

Thanks to all for such considerate input. Lots of food for thought, and what a lovely, helpful and reassuring welcome to the forum. 

 

Now I'm off for a long Sunday walk to mull it all over. Wishing you all a restful, lazy afternoon too.  

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

 

 

Now I'm off for a long Sunday walk to mull it all over. Wishing you all a restful, lazy afternoon too.  

May you have better weather than us

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

Are you single, do you aspire to stay single....

I note the vendor says "I am selling because my partner and I are wanting to live together and have found a bigger boat."

[peterboat]

26 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

 

Thank you - working from home in the midlands, moving the minimum required and just me initially, but all of the potential problems mentioned in this thread could become quite ~acute (and quite abruptly) should circumstances change in future. 

 

Thanks to all for such considerate input. Lots of food for thought, and what a lovely, helpful and reassuring welcome to the forum. 

 

Now I'm off for a long Sunday walk to mull it all over. Wishing you all a restful, lazy afternoon too.  

My first boat was a 60 footer which was big enough, my 57 x 12 is definitely big enough for 2. What you need to do is hire a boat so you have a real feel for what you can cope with, not what you think you can cope with

[mrsmelly]

41 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

May you have better weather than us

Ive been on the beach near here this afternoon  bit cold, but remained dry this afternoon. Bloomin ice cream shop was close though 😐

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, bluelapsing said:

Thank you - working from home in the midlands, moving the minimum required

 

 

Have you been informed of what the 'minimum movement required' is ?

[Tony1]

 

As many have said already, as a solo boater I would not go below 40ft for a liveaboard, and even that would be very reluctantly. 

You need loads of boat-related equipment, tools and other stuff when you live aboard, and some of it is bulky. I am already struggling for storage on a 50ft boat. 

 

You do see the odd short steel boat with someone living aboard, and a good number of GRP cruiser liveaboards of 25ft and less, but from what I've seen it is a pretty hardcore lifestyle.

But if that size of craft and that cramped lifestyle is ok for you, and if your budget at the moment is limited, then a decent GRP cruiser of 26-32ft might be a safer bet financially than an older but bigger narrowboat of 45ft or more. 

Under 25k a lot of narrowboats might turn out to be 'projects' requiring extensive work and spending to get them the way you want them.

At worst, a project narrowboat can become a giant sinkhole for money, and jobs may appear that you didnt anticipate, that may blow your budget.

Maybe not too bad if you are good with DIY and can do lots of electrical and plumbing jobs etc yourself, but if you need to rely on professionals to do the work on your narrowboat, a cheap boat could turn out very expensive. 

If any of those things are relevant, it could be worth looking more closely at GRP boat options instead of narrowboats. 

Certainly if I had a budget of less than 25k, and not a big reserve after that for fixing (and if I wasnt good at DIY (which I'm not), I'd be looking only at 28-32 ft GRP boats. 

They have some major compromises that I would not really like, but I feel they would be a safer bet in terms of affordability, lower risk of massive repair bills, less chance of full leaks or problems, and I would be able to cruise around with a bit more peace of mind. 

Even the engines are cheaper. A new narrowboat engine will set you back 8 to 10k, whereas you can buy a new petrol outboard for a couple of grand that will keep your GRP boat mobile for years and years, with little or no breakdowns/failures etc. 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Tony1

[MtB]

As a single bloke, I found my 68ft trad stern NB about right and very comfy to live on.

 

Mind you, I did have a vintage engine in its own engine room and a back cabin given over to the Power Station. (Whispergen, battery bank on the bench for excellent access, cupboards for loadsa tools etc. 

 

I now have a 57ft tug style which I could just about live on ok but would be more of a struggle....

[MtB]

 

Oops forgot to make my point, which is this boat you are asking about seems highly unlikely to have suitable power generation for a CC liveaboard. If you buy it, I predict generating enough leccy to live on it through a winter will defeat you. 

 

Have you considered in detail how you will generate and store your power?

 

 

[RichM]

You could ask 10 people "What's the smallest narrowboat I can realistically live aboard?" and you will likely get 10 different answers. In part, because everyone has their own requirements and we're not all geared to make the same sacrifices/compromises. As a rule of thumb, the smaller the narrowboat, the more compromises you will need to make. People do live aboard boats this size but your quality of life arguably isn't going to be the same as lets say a 45ft boat.

The winter can take its toll on narrowboaters living aboard regardless of how big their boat is, but it is certainly helped by having more amenities aboard. Problem is that these amenities take up space. 

 

It really depends what you want to do with it; If you're staying put in a marina most of the time, it can offset many of the disadvantages of living aboard a smaller boat because you can make use of their amenities, such as toilet/shower block, launderette + shoreline power etc etc. (though facilities will vary at each marina) Conversely, if you are a continual cruiser or have a mooring without facilities, you will likely need additional space to compensate. Things like having space for a washing machine etc may become more important. (though many make do without - I must add) 

 

Personally, having a 40ft+ boat would likely be much more practical for living aboard (for a single person) and if you are working from the boat (presumably with a laptop?) a dinette would be a huge advantage. There are many other things to consider as well if you're doing this. (e.g. electricity requirements!)

 

After living aboard nearly 5 years, I found my 55ft boat to be too small and regrettably I let her go. My next boat will likely be ~60ft with room for a dedicated office space. No doubt I will find that too small too but I think it's fair to say that boats bigger than this on our canal network will have their own disadvantages.

 

Again this is just my opinion based on my own experience. Everyone will have their own requirements. The sacrifices you're willing (or not willing?) to make will influence this to a great extent. 

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, RichM said:

It really depends what you want to do with it; If you're staying put in a marina most of the time, it can offset many of the disadvantages of living aboard a smaller boat because you can make use of their amenities, such as toilet/shower block, launderette + shoreline power etc etc. (though facilities will vary at each marina) Conversely, if you are a continual cruiser or have a mooring without facilities, you will likely need additional space to compensate. Things like having space for a washing machine etc may become more important. (though many make do without - I must add) 

 

He has said he will be working from 'home' (boat) and will be 'moving the minimum required' so one must assume that he will be 100% 'of-grid' and CCing. 

[Tony1]

 

Obviously we have no idea of your circumstances, and not much idea of the budget for purchase, plus the additional budget available for fettling and 'fixing up' to fit your specific needs.  

So far a lot of this is guesswork- and on that note I would strongly advise you to add further information about these issues, as you will get better advice if we know what you really need and want.  The clearer you are about you needs and preferences, the better quality solutions you will be offered. 

 

I will only add this.

If you think there is a chance you could accept the compromises of living on a smaller boat, AND if you are unable to do a lot of the fixing up work yourself that a sub-25k narrowboat will need, then this sort of boat may be a solution. 

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/viking-cruisers-32-for-sale/719854

 

Because of the layout you have about 30ft of internal living space (or least covered space) to use - which is not that much less than a 45ft narroboat.

You get an 8 year old Honda engine with 360 hours (as opposed to a narrowboat engine in the £22k range that might have done 10,000 or 15,000 hours).

The boat probably wont start leaking the day after you get aboard, and your overall living situation will be more manageable (and for less money) than it would aboard a 57ft narrowboat in that sort of price range.

Would I like to live on it?

No, I wouldn't. But if I wanted to get afloat, and stay afloat, and if only I had 25k, AND if I didnt want to sign up to another 5k of repair money in the first 12 months- this is the sort of thing I would reluctantly be looking at.