What difference does the thickness of baseplate make to value?

[Old Son]

I have just had a survey carried out on my 64 ft, 11 year old narrow boat. I had assumed the baseplate was 10mm but the surveyor has stated it is only 6mm. He has advised the hull is in great order with no pitting but the prospective purchased has pulled out because he wants a boat with 10mm base plate.  Would this really reduce the number of people who might want to buy it?

 

The brokerage has suggested this will reduce the value of the boat, even though there is no deterioration. What do the experts on here think and if the boat is worth less then by how much?

 

Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Old Son said:

I have just had a survey carried out on my 64 ft, 11 year old narrow boat. I had assumed the baseplate was 10mm but the surveyor has stated it is only 6mm. He has advised the hull is in great order with no pitting but the prospective purchased has pulled out because he wants a boat with 10mm base plate.  Would this really reduce the number of people who might want to buy it?

 

The brokerage has suggested this will reduce the value of the boat, even though there is no deterioration. What do the experts on here think and if the boat is worth less then by how much?

 

Thanks

 

It would suggest that the boat may be much older than you thought it was, it is many years ago that 6mm base plates were replaced by 10mm.

Is it possible the Surveyor has made a mistake, not calibrated his meter etc etc.

Have you had the boat since new ?

 

My boat was a 1998 and had a 12mm / 13mm base plate.

 

It would be very unusual for a 2011 boat to be only 6mm baseplate - or - is a DIY build 'done on the cheap'.

 

It could be that it is not just the thickness that is putting off buyers but the fact it may not be as 'young' as originally thought to be, or advertised as being

 

What makes you think your boat is  11 years old ?

Do you have any evidence ?

 

If it is a post 1998 boat then the fuel tank should have the date and pressure test details stamped / marked on it and the HIN / CIN will give the date of manufacture.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Midnight]

It's natural that prospective buyers will favour a 10mm over a  6mm baseplate, but to mitigate the perception I would get it sandblasted and two-packed. You could then turn it into a selling point. Many 10mm bottoms end up as 6mm when you consider all the 4mm pitting that's quite common these days.

[jupiter1124]

How much does the brokerage think it will reduce the value by? Not an expert by any means, but a 64' x 6'10" boat, that's 40 square metres of baseplate. Such a boat with a 6mm baseplate is 40x0.004 = 0.16 cubic metres less boat than a comparable one with a 10mm baseplate. That's about 1.25 tonnes. If the steel price is about a grand per tonne, that's how much less it's going to be just in terms of materials. Then you have to consider that most modern boats have 10mm baseplates, so that's what you're competing with. Would you pay an extra couple of grand to get a 10mm baseplate? I think I would...

[Old Son]

The boat was originally built by a boat builder who worked in a yard on the Thames. I bought the boat from a field in Norwich before it had been launched. I spent a further 12 months completing the fit out. I was provided with all of the invoices up to that point. I launched the boat in 2010 and have owned it ever since. The hull is two packed and the survey states the baseplate is two packed with no obvious pitting or damage. The broker is suggesting I reduce the price by £10k!!!

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Midnight said:

It's natural that prospective buyers will favour a 10mm over a  6mm baseplate, but to mitigate the perception I would get it sandblasted and two-packed. You could then turn it into a selling point. Many 10mm bottoms end up as 6mm when you consider all the 4mm pitting that's quite common these days.

 

It would be more cost effective to drop the price by "a couple of 1000"

It'll cost quite a lot of both money and time to try and get it booked in for blasting and 2-pack

Just now, Old Son said:

The boat was originally built by a boat builder who worked in a yard on the Thames. I bought the boat from a field in Norwich before it had been launched. I spent a further 12 months completing the fit out. I was provided with all of the invoices up to that point. I launched the boat in 2010 and have owned it ever since. The hull is two packed and the survey states the baseplate is two packed with no obvious pitting or damage. The broker is suggesting I reduce the price by £10k!!!

 

Does the boat have RCD certification ?

If not I'd just try and get a deal done before the buyer comes back and wants you to to do a PCA (cost several £1000s) as has happened at several brokerages this year.

[jupiter1124]

6 minutes ago, Old Son said:

The boat was originally built by a boat builder who worked in a yard on the Thames. I bought the boat from a field in Norwich before it had been launched. I spent a further 12 months completing the fit out. I was provided with all of the invoices up to that point. I launched the boat in 2010 and have owned it ever since. The hull is two packed and the survey states the baseplate is two packed with no obvious pitting or damage. The broker is suggesting I reduce the price by £10k!!!

 

£10k does seem completely unreasonable. It sounds like an unscrupulous broker trying to make a quick sale if you ask me. Show the broker the calculation I made above and say you are willing to knock off 2 grand given the high price of steel at the moment. Can't say fairer than that.

Given two boats in equal condition I'd pay 2-3 grand more for 10mm of baseplate, but I'd take a 6mm basplate 2packed and in perfect condition over a 10mm bitumened (or naked, as regular blacking commonly ignores the bottom) baseplate with pitting at the same price anyday...

 

Out of interest, what was a 64' narrowboat doing in Norwich??

Edited July 8, 2022 by jupiter1124

[Old Son]

Thanks. The boat has an RCD and overall is in great condition. I've a mind to take it off the market. The boat has been in the water since 2011, I've applied two pack to the hull twice in that time plus I applied 4 coats of two pack to the hull, which incidentally was already two packed, before it was launched.

[jupiter1124]

If the broker can't come to an agreeable price, is selling it yourself an option for you? She sounds like a well looked after boat and the market is hot right now, if you have an ad why not share it with the forum and see if anyone is interested.

[Old Son]

It is with ABNB and also on Apollo Duck. Anybody on here wanting to buy a boat would look there anyway I would have thought.

[mrsmelly]

Anyone who knows boats will buy it if its in good condition. I have owned 15mm 12mm 10mm and 6mm baseplate boats. Its condition that counts. For what its worth, the 6mm bottom colecraft was 20 years old when I bought it. The owner had never blacked the boat whatsoever for the previous 18 years and I bought it very cheaply as we knew it would be knackered. I took it for a hull survey after purchase and it was 5.7mm, so nearly as good as new and never painted, never mind two packed. A good boat will sell, bin the broker.

[Old Son]

I'm stuck with the broker for the next couple of months but after that I will review. As Jupiter said, I would sooner a two packed 6mm base plate free from pits than a 10mm bitumen base plate with pits all over it. I'll reduce the price a little, re-advertise with the correct sizes and see how it goes.

 

Thank you all for your contributions.

[RichM]

34 minutes ago, Old Son said:

The boat was originally built by a boat builder who worked in a yard on the Thames. I bought the boat from a field in Norwich before it had been launched. I spent a further 12 months completing the fit out. I was provided with all of the invoices up to that point. I launched the boat in 2010 and have owned it ever since. The hull is two packed and the survey states the baseplate is two packed with no obvious pitting or damage. The broker is suggesting I reduce the price by £10k!!!

 

Ignore their advice. They just want a quick sale. 

 

I had a similar issue with Lakeland Leisure who wanted me to reduce the price of my boat and sell it to them directly for less though their "We buy any boat" type scheme. Fortunately I refused, though the same boat is now worth around £50k.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is it possible the Surveyor has made a mistake, not calibrated his meter etc etc.

 

 

I don't understand why a surveyor is needed to work out how thick a baseplate is. The sacrificial lip extending all around the boat is exposed and can be measured. Can probably be done with the boat in the water. I'm vaguely surprised the OP did not measure it anyway - a 6mm thick sacrificial lip must look oddly thin. 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by MtB
Change a wrong word

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, Old Son said:

 The broker is suggesting I reduce the price by £10k!!!

 I would find another broker or use Apolloduck which in my experience works very well if you upload lots of photos.

[OldGoat]

It's amazing (well in all truth not really) how convolutely  a seemingly simple subject such as steel hulled boats get a large number of discussions on these fora. Quite understanable as in reality it can be a real hornets nest.

 

I submit that the issue is more of how well the structure has been built, mebe where where kept and how it has been used.

I've recently had my boat surveyed and was amazed to see that the sides were in good order and amazingly the bottom (10mm) had hardly any pits or thinning in 23+ plus years of use.

Our access to proper boating is via the Oxenford bit and canal - where you would have thought that the shallow gremlins would have thinned it - but No!  No thinning and no wastage. Must tbe the Thames water...

 

I suspect that -

• How well the hull was constructed and what care the fabricator chose his steel
• Whether bad practices were / are employed - such as wet bilges  and unventillated dittos
• Where the boat was kepth
• What the cruising range was
• The style of ownership / 'navigating'

all contribute to hull deteriotion - possibly more that thin hull construction in the first place.

 

It's very unlikely that a potential buyer can evaluate or examine any of these as soo many boats are sold in the same way as cars are nowadays. Whereas looking at a car in a sales lot can - posibly give you a good gude as to its use - the same cannot be applied to a string of  boats in a dealers yard...

 

I'm glad - in some ways- that our  boating days are over ; but now I must find someone why wil appreciate our life's boating passion for a good price....

[David Mack]

If you reduce the price, by £2k or £10k, you still risk the next buyers surveyor coming back and asking for more money off because the bottom is only 6mm. I'd hold your ground on the asking price, but maybe be open to an offer from a serious buyer to get a sale.

[jupiter1124]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If you reduce the price, by £2k or £10k, you still risk the next buyers surveyor coming back and asking for more money off because the bottom is only 6mm. I'd hold your ground on the asking price, but maybe be open to an offer from a serious buyer to get a sale.

Not if you're upfront about the thicknesses surely. Besides just because they ask for money off doesn't mean you have to oblige, in fact if they've already committed to paying for a surveyor you've got an advantage of their having sunk some cost. It's gentlemanly to negotiate in good faith after the survey reveals some defect or something not stated in the ad (like hull thickness) but you're under no obligation.

It's a bit different with a broker because they can refuse brokerage if you can't come to an agreement with a price, I assume.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

I don't understand why a surveyor is needed to work out how thick a baseplate is. The sacrificial lip extending all around the boat is exposed and can be measured. Can probably be done with the boat in the water. I'm vaguely surprised the OP did not measure it anyway - a 6mm thick sacrificial lip must look oddly thin. 

 

 

Yes, my boat has a 10mm baseplate and a 6mm counter/uxter plate because that was an area where the builder saved a few quid. Completely ridiculous when you think that the aft end of the baseplate is the same shape as the fore end of the uxter. It seems like it would have been easier to use 10mm throughout. 

 

Anyway, as you say the difference in thickness is obvious at the overhang and I'm surprised the OP never noticed it before especially if they had the boat for so long and epoxied the hull a couple of times. 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, my boat has a 10mm baseplate and a 6mm counter/uxter plate because that was an area where the builder saved a few quid. Completely ridiculous when you think that the aft end of the baseplate is the same shape as the fore end of the uxter. It seems like it would have been easier to use 10mm throughout. 

 

Anyway, as you say the difference in thickness is obvious at the overhang and I'm surprised the OP never noticed it before especially if they had the boat for so long and epoxied the hull a couple of times. 

 

 

 

I have found it is quite common to have a thinner uxter plate than the base plate.  In fact some builders used a thinner plate just as the bottom of the fuel tank bit at the stern for some strange reason.

[PaulJ]

How old is the hull though if you launched it in 2010/2011 and it was in a field before then?

Might have some bearing on the suggested price reduction.

[MtB]

Just as some buyers don't give two hoots about RCD documentation and others care deeply, some will not be bothered about a 6mm baseplate (IF it really is 6mm - how do you know the surveyor is right?) while others will. 

 

It nets down to a smaller pool of potential buyers to compete with each other, so I'd say a minor price reduction would be necessary to reflect this. Perhaps 10% of the initial valuation when everyone thought it was 10mm. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by MtB

[Old Son]

I have reduced the price by 10% because I am aware there will be fewer people wanting a boat with 6mm base plate. I admit I really didn’t give the base plate a thought. It is what it is, it’s all still in excellent condition and a very nice boat. 

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, Old Son said:

I have reduced the price by 10% because I am aware there will be fewer people wanting a boat with 6mm base plate. I admit I really didn’t give the base plate a thought. It is what it is, it’s all still in excellent condition and a very nice boat. 

Good luck with the sale

[PhilR]

The base plate on my 1980 Teddesley is original and still watertight . The plating is (was!) 7mm, although it might be 1/4 inch imperial. The base plate has never been painted during the last 30 years. 

I reckon the quality of the steel and the maintenance regime is more important than the thickness of the plating. The OP seems to have a well maintained hull in good condition. Good luck with the sale.