Filling up the water tanks on the canals in London

[Maestro07]

Hi Everybody!

Thinking about taking the plunge into buying a narrowboat and doing the continuous cruising thing (In the warmer months anyway) I was just wondering, how do you guys fill up the water tanks if you are not connected to a mains water supply? carry it in bottles? Maybe there is a fill up truck or something? How many on average do you use per day? I guess if the boat has a 200 litre tank it would run out pretty quickly. The reason I am asking is because it is the last hurdle i have to clear with my wife before we make the commitment as she uses quiet a bit of water )

[Tracy D'arth]

And how much research into CCing have you really done?

 

Have you a canal guide book for the areas you intend cruising? All the service points are in there, Nicholson's or Pearson's, along with the maps and access points, moorings etc.

 

Grasshopper, you have much to learn!   🤒

[nicknorman]

On the canal network in general there are plenty of water points (taps beside the canal), when you are out cruising you will typically pass more than one every day. Bring your own hose! But in London, with the massive congestion of boats, as I understand it there is a shortage of water points, and there can be queues. Our boat has over 500 litres of water. We typically go several days without needing to fill up. Having a water contents gauge is very useful as it tells you whether you actually need to fill up or not. Or if you have an integral tank in the bow you can often see the level.

Edited May 30, 2022 by nicknorman

[PeterF]

32 minutes ago, Maestro07 said:

The reason I am asking is because it is the last hurdle i have to clear with my wife before we make the commitment as she uses quite a bit of water

You have to start learning to conserve water unless you want to fill up regularly. Things like showering, run water till you are wet all over, turn off water, soap yourself then turn the water on to wash soap off. You are no longer connected to mains utilities. You have to consider how much water, electricity, gas, sewage and diesel you are using and how you replenish it. The biggest change is electric, you have to generate all your own power and misunderstanding how to look after and properly recharge batteries is the biggest cause of battery failures, often within months. See the battery charging primer https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/#comment-2100390

[Noviceboata]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Have you a canal guide book for the areas you intend cruising? All the service points are in there, Nicholson's or Pearson's, along with the maps and access points, moorings etc.

 

Thanks for that, I will try to grab a book. One more question, as I understand a boat can stay in one spot on the Canal for 2 weeks before moving? What happens when you leave your spot to go get some water afte the first few days, surely you wouldn't be able to return to the same spot as it would be taken. Does that mean everytime you need to fill up the water you have to find a new spot? seems it would be difficult with all the boats on the canals in London. (I guess you cant tellthe guy in the boat beside you to mind your place while you fill up the water)

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

On the canal network in general there are plenty of water points (taps beside the canal), when you are out cruising you will typically pass more than one every day. Bring your own hose! But in London, with the massive congestion of boats, as I understand it there is a shortage of water points, and there can be queues. Our boat has over 500 litres of water. We typically go several days without needing to fill up. Having a water contents gauge is very useful as it tells you whether you actually need to fill up or not. Or if you have an integral tank in the bow you can often see the level.

Wow! its amazing how much water we use, 500 litres in 2 days, and I guess you are still being conservative?

[sueb]

Try a fortnights holiday in winter and see how you both enjoy boating. You will learn a lot and get answers to some of your questions

[Maestro07]

3 minutes ago, sueb said:

Try a fortnights holiday in winter and see how you both enjoy boating. You will learn a lot and get answers to some of your questions

I guess so. I know one thing, I am going to join a gym for the long showers

Just now, Maestro07 said:

I guess so. I know one thing, I am going to join a gym for the long showers

In anycase it will beat paying 1500 for a shitty flat in London

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Thanks for that, I will try to grab a book. One more question, as I understand a boat can stay in one spot on the Canal for 2 weeks before moving? What happens when you leave your spot to go get some water afte the first few days, surely you wouldn't be able to return to the same spot as it would be taken. Does that mean everytime you need to fill up the water you have to find a new spot? seems it would be difficult with all the boats on the canals in London. (I guess you cant tellthe guy in the boat beside you to mind your place while you fill up the water)

Wow! its amazing how much water we use, 500 litres in 2 days, and I guess you are still being conservative?

The rules do not say “one spot” they say “one place” which is subtlety different. A place is like a parish, village etc. Not quite so clear in a big city, but “bridge hopping” as it’s called, is not within the rules. Your mate is not entitled to hold your place for you, and you are not entitled to have a place held for you.

 

How can you use 500l in 2 days? Taps do have an off position! The thing that uses a lot of water for us is the washing machine. Showers don’t use much - or don’t need to use much. If we don’t use the washing machine I think we would last about a week on a tankful.

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

s I understand a boat can stay in one spot on the Canal for 2 weeks before moving?

 

Remember that is the 'maximum' time allowed unless signed otherwise.

 

Like car parking - some areas will be 1 hour or 2 hours, some maybe 24 hours, 48 hours. some may be free and some may be chargeable, some areas may be no mooring at all. 

Do not plan your life around the principle that you dont have to move for 2-weeks.

 

Yes - if you move you will lose you spot and have to find another.

 

As a rough guide C&RT indicate that a 'place' where you moor should be 1km (or more) from your last mooring place and you are not allowed to moor in A, go to B and back to A, you should go A to B to C to D to E to ................. and then you can turnaround and start coming back.

You need to have a 'range' (starting from your start point) of a mimum of 21 kms  (there is more to it that just that so you need to read the rules)

Edited May 30, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

14 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

One more question, as I understand a boat can stay in one spot on the Canal for 2 weeks before moving? What happens when you leave your spot to go get some water afte the first few days, surely you wouldn't be able to return to the same spot as it would be taken. Does that mean everytime you need to fill up the water you have to find a new spot? 

 

Sorry misread your question. Been a long day .. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by blackrose

[Noviceboata]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

The rules do not say “one spot” they say “one place” which is subtlety different. A place is like a parish, village etc. Not quite so clear in a big city, but “bridge hopping” as it’s called, is not within the rules. Your mate is not entitled to hold your place for you, and you are not entitled to have a place held for you.

 

How can you use 500l in 2 days? Taps do have an off position! The thing that uses a lot of water for us is the washing machine. Showers don’t use much - or don’t need to use much. If we don’t use the washing machine I think we would last about a week on a tankful.

Thanks for that, guess it makes sense to use a laundromat. So that means if you were continuous cruising you wouldnt have the luxury to stay in one place for 2 weeks due to the washing machine?

 

[Rob-M]

Don't forget, it isn't just filling the water tank every few days you may also need to empty a toilet tank every few days.

[jonathanA]

The best advice I ever saw was that if your thinking of living aboard a narrow boat try living in your kitchen for a week....

 

As sueb said you should try hiring for a week or two.

[Maestro07]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As a rough guide C&RT indicate that a 'place' where you moor should be 1km (or more) from your last mooring place and you are not allowed to moor in A, go to B and back to A, you should go A to B to C to D to E to ................. and then you can turnaround and start coming back.

You need to have a 'range' (starting from your start point) of a mimum of 21 kms  (there is more to it that just that so you need to read the rules)

Yea I guess it is a pretty controversial rule, its interesting what the book says and what everybody I speak to on the canals is actually doing  (I guess none of them I spoke to travelled 21km in one direction)  they remember  during the coronavirus times when it was convenient for the CRT to let boats stay in one place

[Noviceboata]

4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

The best advice I ever saw was that if your thinking of living aboard a narrow boat try living in your kitchen for a week....

 

As sueb said you should try hiring for a week or two.

Guys it depends what you are used to. Have you tried living in Ukraine during -25c and the electricity goes out for 3 days? Was living in a 200 sq metre house and it made no sense to heat up the whole house for 2 people so we lived in the bedroom after work which was about 3 hours before we went to bed. Went downstairs to cook (stove kept us warm) or to take a shower. Did this for 4 months. Like was mentioned, everything is doable and it depends what you are used to

Just now, AndrewKyiv said:

Guys it depends what you are used to. Have you tried living in Ukraine during -25c and the electricity goes out for 3 days? Was living in a 200 sq metre house and it made no sense to heat up the whole house for 2 people so we lived in the bedroom after work which was about 3 hours each night before we went to bed. Went downstairs to cook (stove kept us warm) or to take a shower. Did this for 4 months. Like was mentioned, everything is doable and it depends what you are used to

 

Just now, AndrewKyiv said:

Guys it depends what you are used to. Have you tried living in Ukraine during -25c and the electricity goes out for 3 days? Was living in a 200 sq metre house and it made no sense to heat up the whole house for 2 people so we lived in the bedroom after work which was about 3 hours before we went to bed. Went downstairs to cook (stove kept us warm) or to take a shower. Did this for 4 months. Like was mentioned, everything is doable and it depends what you are used to

 

sorry about the duplicate message

9 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Don't forget, it isn't just filling the water tank every few days you may also need to empty a toilet tank every few days.

Ah forgot about that. As I understand there is a boat that travels around and does this as a business. Is this true? is it hard to find them?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

20 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Thanks for that, guess it makes sense to use a laundromat. So that means if you were continuous cruising you wouldnt have the luxury to stay in one place for 2 weeks due to the washing machine?

 

I understand people use their washing machines when at the water point. 
 

[Noviceboata]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I understand people use their washing machines when at the water point. 
 

Thanks for that, I am going to write that one down, great idea!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Thanks for that, I am going to write that one down, great idea!

😂😂

 

don't do it you’ll upset everyone and cause a big queue!

 

 

[Maestro07]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

😂😂

 

don't do it you’ll upset everyone and cause a big queue!

 

 

Why? fill up, start washing your clothes then join the queue again

[nicknorman]

29 minutes ago, Maestro07 said:

Yea I guess it is a pretty controversial rule, its interesting what the book says and what everybody I speak to on the canals is actually doing  (I guess none of them I spoke to travelled 21km in one direction)  they remember  during the coronavirus times when it was convenient for the CRT to let boats stay in one place

It’s not a rule, it is the law. BW act 1995 IIRC, which forms the basis for your right to be sold a licence. As you suggest, in London people seem to be happy to sign up to an agreement (the terms of the Act for boaters without a home mooring) and then completely disregard it, which to my mind is dishonest and makes their word worthless and demonstrates a complete lack of personal integrity. As you say, plenty of people do it. Just like they exceed the 30mph speed limit and numerous other laws that they consider don’t apply to them.

But then that seems to be the way of the world these days, following the examples of our great leaders.

Edited May 30, 2022 by nicknorman

[Slim]

I live fairly close to Rickmansworth on the Grand Union. A couple of months ago I drove over the bridge by the Coy Carp just below Coppermill lock. Between the lock and the bridge there's a waterpoint. At about 3pm on a Sunday afternoon there were a total of eight or nine boats queuing for the tap. I can’t  say  if this  was normal but it gives an idea of what to expect. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

If you set off boating bending the rules and getting up others nose you will find life is very unpleasant in the small community that is canal boating. 

You will also find that C&RT will make your life a misery and ultimately experience a section 8 boat removal and loss.

 You may well be used to roughing it in Kyiv but being so totally out of the loop on the canals is a completely different mind set.

[Noviceboata]

14 minutes ago, Slim said:

I live fairly close to Rickmansworth on the Grand Union. A couple of months ago I drove over the bridge by the Coy Carp just below Coppermill lock. Between the lock and the bridge there's a waterpoint. At about 3pm on a Sunday afternoon there were a total of eight or nine boats queuing for the tap. I can’t  say  if this  was normal but it gives an idea of what to expect. 

 

 

Ok thanks for that. Did you notice how long it took to fill each boat up?

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, Maestro07 said:

Yea I guess it is a pretty controversial rule, its interesting what the book says and what everybody I speak to on the canals is actually doing  (I guess none of them I spoke to travelled 21km in one direction)  they remember  during the coronavirus times when it was convenient for the CRT to let boats stay in one place

 

Maybe try speaking to the dozens of boaters who have actually come into enforcement and see what they say about it, you are talking to the ones who, so far, has escaped .

Ypu risk entering a proces that ends with you in court & having your boat taken away from you and sold off,

Yes this happens.

Do a search on the C&RT website (or "what do they know" website) for section 8 boat removal

 

London Enforcement Manager Simon Cadek sent an email to a boater who was warned that they were on course for failing their six month restricted licence, telling them what they would need to do to pass.

The email is on public record as part of advice to boaters in the London Boaters Facebook group.


“When we are looking at boat movements we are looking for characteristics of bona fide navigation, these fall roughly into four categories:

· Range: by range we mean the furthest points a boat has travelled on the network, not merely the total distance travelled. While the BW act does not stipulate what that distance is the Trust has previously said that anyone travelling a range of less than say 20 miles (32km) would struggle to satisfy the Trust that they are engaged in bona fide navigation and that normally we would expect a greater range.

. For the avoidance of doubt, a small number of long journeys over a short period of time, followed or preceded by cruising in a small are of the network would not generally satisfy the Trust that you are engaged in bona fide navigation.

· Overstaying: we look to see how often boats overstay, either the 14 day limit on the main length of the canal, or shorter periods where local signage dictates, for example short stay visitor moorings.

While we are flexible with the occasional overstay from most boaters due to breakdown, illness or other emergencies, we will look at the overall pattern balanced with range and movement pattern in order to form a view.

Overstay reminders are issued when a boat is seen in the same area for more than 14 days. While we are unable to say how far you need to travel each time you move, we would advise that you normally travel further than a few km each time.

This will prevent you from getting reminders and depending on the length of other trips you make and how many times you turn back on yourself, should increase your overall range over the course of your licence.

· Movement: Continuous Cruiser Licences are intended for bona fide (genuine) navigation around the network, rather than for a boat to remain in one mooring spot, place neighbourhood or area.

We would expect boats on these licences to move around the network such that they don’t gravitate back to favoured areas too often i.e. in a way that it’s clear to us that they’re living in a small area of the waterway.

The basic principle of this is that these licences are not intended for living in an area and if it looks like a boat is habitually returning to a particular part of the waterway then this would not generally satisfy the Trust.

Within an acceptable range we’d expect a genuine movement, so for example it would not satisfy the Trust if a boat went on a 60 mile trip during the course of say two weeks, then returned to cruise in an area of say 5 miles the remainder of the time (figures are examples only).

Generally speaking, the smaller the range the less we’d expect to see boats back at the same locations. Of course people need to turn around and they’re perfectly free to re-visit places they have been to before, it’s living in a small area on this kind of licence that would cause a problem.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Noviceboata]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If you set off boating bending the rules and getting up others nose you will find life is very unpleasant in the small community that is canal boating. 

You will also find that C&RT will make your life a misery and ultimately experience a section 8 boat removal and loss.

 You may well be used to roughing it in Kyiv but being so totally out of the loop on the canals is a completely different mind set.

I didnt say i would do it, i am just stating the reality of what is going on