Installation of new electric boat charging bollards

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

You did that trick of adding a bit.

 

A lot depends on when you have to sell it and why.

I added it very quickly.

If Ian doesn't sell his boat and his family have it then the cash value is un important. If CRT close the canals in 5 years time, it will probably be worth the same as mine, maybe a bit more for the scrap copper.

 

This is true, but there are times you do what you want, not what you think will give a return and be happy to lose that if things change. I have seen things I would never consider buying.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I added it very quickly.

If Ian doesn't sell his boat and his family have it then the cash value is un important. If CRT close the canals in 5 years time, it will probably be worth the same as mine, maybe a bit more for the scrap copper.

 

This is true, but there are times you do what you want, not what you think will give a return and be happy to lose that if things change. I have seen things I would never consider buying.

 

I take a different perspective.

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

My biggest concern would be depreciation.

 

Lots of people have put very expensive unusual boats on the UK canals and then find if they have to sell they lose thousands upon thousands.

 

Whitfield any one?

Martin have you looked at the price of secondhand boats recently? They are a fortune!!!! And they are selling whether it's for that money I don't know but some of the prices are eye watering 

[ditchcrawler]

31 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I take a different perspective.

Well my boat cost me less that £75,000 to build, if I get another 5 years that  will be 25 years so £3,000 a year, that is quite good value for all the enjoyment I have had from it. Obviously I would to get a reasonable return from it and not just give it away.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Martin have you looked at the price of secondhand boats recently? They are a fortune!!!! And they are selling whether it's for that money I don't know but some of the prices are eye watering 

 

I wouldnt be worried about depreciation on a pretty standard diesel powered narrowboat.

 

That wasnt what my comment related to.

18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well my boat cost me less that £75,000 to build, if I get another 5 years that  will be 25 years so £3,000 a year, that is quite good value for all the enjoyment I have had from it. Obviously I would to get a reasonable return from it and not just give it away.

 

Excellent

[peterboat]

26 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I wouldnt be worried about depreciation on a pretty standard diesel powered narrowboat.

 

That wasnt what my comment related to.

 

Excellent

I have seen a all electric widebeam for sale last week, one year old 238k, aqualine shell I think but finished to a high standard. Like mine it was solar with series hybrid (genny) offer was received on it within a couple of days 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have seen a all electric widebeam for sale last week, one year old 238k, aqualine shell I think but finished to a high standard. Like mine it was solar with series hybrid (genny) offer was received on it within a couple of days 

 

What was the offer, fifty quid?!

 

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have seen a all electric widebeam for sale last week, one year old 238k, aqualine shell I think but finished to a high standard. Like mine it was solar with series hybrid (genny) offer was received on it within a couple of days 

 

Link please.

 

Regardless boat prices are being held artificially high at the moment.

Edited May 4, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[Slow and Steady]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well my boat cost me less that £75,000 to build, if I get another 5 years that  will be 25 years so £3,000 a year, that is quite good value for all the enjoyment I have had from it. Obviously I would to get a reasonable return from it and not just give it away.

I had a 25 year old 3 owner boat. (I was the 3rd) It was £42k new, the previous owner paid £42k for it, I paid £42K for it and woohoo I sold it for £45K. Inflation eats the value of those £'s of course. Bank of England RPI based calculator says your £75k would now be £120K but still, pretty cheap boating.

[peterboat]

53 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What was the offer, fifty quid?!

 

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Link please.

 

Regardless boat prices are being held artificially high at the moment.

It was on the Facebook widebeam group and its not there anymore or I can't find it, but as I said it had an offer on it, so it could be sold and gone as they do. It was in London but can't remember if it came with transferable moorings?

[PD1964]

You all live on fantasy forum land.

Edited May 4, 2022 by PD1964

[peterboat]

Found the advert 232k and transferable moorings 

 

[David Mack]

21 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

 

I may be wrong, but it is my impression that the limited experiences of providing card based bollards, that charge to a registered customer rather than having to buy pre-pay cards, has not been good. The mechanisms are not (yet) designed to be robust enough to be used daily by different people and, like pump outs, have a high level of breakdowns

Surely that's just a matter of using the right card reading mechanisms. The banks have been using ATMs for years that will accept (almost) any card, and they achieve a high level of security and reliability. 

I suspect it is commercial rather than technical reasons why the EV charger companies don't offer a service where anyone can turn up and pay the displayed price using any credit or debit card (as you can do at most petrol stations), but that approach, which may be good for individual companies, is potentially holding back the sector as a whole.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

I have seen a all electric widebeam for sale last week, one year old 238k,

 

Someone else who has found that electric boats are not (currently**) practical for those who actually want to cruise

 

 

** Intentional use of the word.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Someone else who has found that electric boats are not (currently**) practical for those who actually want to cruise

 

 

** Intentional use of the word.

 

 

Which is of course, probably the reason that one year old 'all electric' boat came on the market after just one year of ownership.

 

It took that long to work out how utterly un-useable it really is. 

 

 

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Someone else who has found that electric boats are not (currently**) practical for those who actually want to cruise

 

 

** Intentional use of the word.

 

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Which is of course, probably the reason that one year old 'all electric' boat came on the market after just one year of ownership.

 

It took that long to work out how utterly un-useable it really is. 

 

 

You would be amazed at how many under a year old boats come on the market. Its always the same it seems like a good idea but the reality is something different 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

 

You would be amazed at how many under a year old boats come on the market. Its always the same it seems like a good idea but the reality is something different 

 

I find that amazing!

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

You would be amazed at how many under a year old boats come on the market. Its always the same it seems like a good idea but the reality is something different 

 

Yes - few folks are happy moving 1 hour per day, some actually want to cruise, and until the infrastructure is in place they cannot.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - few folks are happy moving 1 hour per day, some actually want to cruise, and until the infrastructure is in place they cannot.

Yep, just as with a BEV at present, one day Rodney, One day 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - few folks are happy moving 1 hour per day, some actually want to cruise, and until the infrastructure is in place they cannot.

 

You'd expect a £250k electric boat to be self-charging wouldn't you. With like, say, a quiet diesel generator running 24/7...  

[IanD]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Surely that's just a matter of using the right card reading mechanisms. The banks have been using ATMs for years that will accept (almost) any card, and they achieve a high level of security and reliability. 

I suspect it is commercial rather than technical reasons why the EV charger companies don't offer a service where anyone can turn up and pay the displayed price using any credit or debit card (as you can do at most petrol stations), but that approach, which may be good for individual companies, is potentially holding back the sector as a whole.

 

ATMs with inserted card mechanisms are expensive to make, relatively unreliable, and prone to people screwing them up by stuffing things in intentionally or accidentally. The only reason they're still used is because there are still lots of bank card out there without NFC or where the user hasn't enabled it.

 

None of this is the case for a new charging network, contactless is far easier and cheaper and -- like payment in shops -- gives more options to pay, such as using a mobile phone.

 

Commercial reasons (locking in users) are exactly why there are so many incompatible EV networks today (or you have to register to each of them), and why legislation is being brought in to force them to open up and make them compatible. This also needs a back-office system building up to allow centralised authorisation and billing, just like LINK for ATMs, but it will happen in the next couple of years.

Edited May 5, 2022 by IanD

[IanD]

23 hours ago, PD1964 said:

No I don’t, as not interested in electric boats as quite happy with Diesel engined boats and I’m sure the guy that fitted the Hybrid did his research, as your not the only one that looks into it for the best solution in relation to expense.
 He was happy with his system as it suited his needs. Your boat fits your needs at about 3x the price then his cost, even though your both using the same shell builder. You mention real costs and seam to forget your builder has a staff he needs to pay, so the cost of the boat reflects this.

 

I had already allowed a decent profit margin for the builder, the generator component cost is rather less than £15000 -- but if the builder's GM is higher than I picked, installed cost might be as high as £20000. On top of this you have the cost of the batteries+motor+controller+inverter (similar?), but then you save on a diesel engine and gearbox (£10k installed?).

 

This all adds up with Finesse's estimate that such a boat -- with a high-quality installation and no corner-cutting -- typically costs about £30000 more than a diesel boat, but you do get all the side-benefits of a massive battery bank and house-quality mains as well as silent cruising.

 

So getting rid of the generator might reduce this premium to about £10000, and since a large chunk of this is due to to lithium batteries which are getting cheaper over time (with some hiccups!) I'd expect this to drop to zero within a few years -- certainly before any charging network is installed.

 

At which point electric (no generator) will cost the same to buy and less to run than diesel.

 

From their FB page...

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by IanD

[MtB]

Surely he meant "Been able to spend a week on board without charging or going anywhere"...

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

Surely he meant "Been able to spend a week on board without charging or going anywhere"...

Yes, obviously 😉

 

When I did a power audit I reckoned that even when cruising all day recharging would only be needed maybe twice a week in summer (with 7kWh/day from 2kW of solar panels) and every other day in winter (1kWh/day from solar).

 

If I don't move much in summer (a couple of full days cruising per week?) then recharging won't be needed at all, but this does assume a big solar array which many boats don't have due to cost and roof area...

Edited May 5, 2022 by IanD

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

When I did a power audit I reckoned that even when cruising all day recharging would only be needed maybe twice a week in summer (with 7kWh/day from 2kW of solar panels) and every other day in winter (1kWh/day from solar).

 

I had a brief lock-side chat with an electric narrowboat owner last summer. The brief info gleaned from the chat was he had 3.5 tonnes of LA full traction batteries, CCed about five hours a day on average, and charged with a diesel genny for 6 hours every third day. All electric cooking, dunno about heating. No solar. 

 

 

Boat worked well for them and very pleased with it, they said.