Installation of new electric boat charging bollards

[IanD]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

So what'd the point of electric drive I wonder, with a diesel-fired power station like that on board. 

 

Is this thing is supposed to be "green", or do they make no claims about it being "green"?

 

 

Going by the area of solar panels on the roof I'd estimate it has something like 6kWp, which should yield an average of about 18kWh/day in summer and about 5kWh/day in winter.

 

Certainly that should be enough to not need to run the generator in summer, unless cruising all day for several days in a row which seems pretty unlikely given the destination.

 

In winter it might just be OK but I doubt it given the likely use of appliances on the boat, so the generator will have to be run for perhaps an hour per day on average.

 

Of course if it's plugged in none of this matters...

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

It was @peterboat who quoted those figures. 
  I don’t know if all the new buyers of these boats are trying to be Eco, but from what I see I don’t think so. I think they just want silent propulsion while out cruising and enjoy peace and quiet now they’re retired, with a generator running at the end of the day(they are silent though)

 

That's certainly the case for me, and as far as I can see most others who are being realistic about power consumption vs. solar power, especially on narrowboats... 😉

 

Even having taken extreme measures to make it as quiet as possible I expect to run the genny for an hour or so per day while travelling rather than while moored, then you get hot water every day.

[PD1964]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

Even having taken extreme measures to make it as quiet as possible I expect to run the genny for an hour or so per day while travelling rather than while moored, then you get hot water every day.

I thought there would be a system in place that could use excess solar to heat your water though a dedicated heating element in the Calorifier(is there such a system on the market?)

  So if not using your generator, would you not just use your 240v heating element, through your Inverter to heat your water in the Calorifier, as you should have a big enough battery bank and Inverter to cope?

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by PD1964

[ditchcrawler]

46 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I thought there would be a system in place that could use excess solar to heat your water though a dedicated heating element in the Calorifier(is there such a system on the market?)

  So if not using your generator, would you not just use your 240v heating element, through your Inverter to heat your water in the Calorifier, as you should have a big enough battery bank and Inverter to cope?

 

You all dont like facebook but there is quite a bit of info on there about solar dumps for when the batteries are full

Edited May 11, 2022 by ditchcrawler
Spilling

[IanD]

50 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I thought there would be a system in place that could use excess solar to heat your water though a dedicated heating element in the Calorifier(is there such a system on the market?)

  So if not using your generator, would you not just use your 240v heating element, through your Inverter to heat your water in the Calorifier, as you should have a big enough battery bank and Inverter to cope?

 

Yes there is (an immersion heater), *if* there's excess solar power -- which there will probably be when stationary in summer, but not while CCing unless only travelling for a short time each day, and certainly not in winter.

 

The problem is that it takes a *lot* of power to heat up water, 1kW heats up a typical calorifier by about 15C/hour, and getting this by burning diesel in a generator is far less efficient (about 3x) than running a diesel boiler to heat the water.

 

But if you need to run the genny anyway to recharge the batteries, you might as well use some of the "free" waste heat in the cooling system to heat up the calorifier -- it's better to do this than just dump it all into the skin tank.

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

 The problem is that it takes a *lot* of power to heat up water, 1kW heats up a typical calorifier by about 15C/hour,  

So probably less than an hour per day then, I doubt my tank ever drops below 25°C from one day to the next so 15° would take it up to 40°C

[Momac]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

So what'd the point of electric drive I wonder, with a diesel-fired power station like that on board. 

It takes  away any anxiety regarding battery reserves especially on day when the solar doesn't deliver . 

 

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Is this thing is supposed to be "green", or do they make no claims about it being "green"?

 

Owning boat isn't environmentally friendly . It would be greener to have no boat at all .

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Owning boat isn't environmentally friendly . It would be greener to have no boat at all .

 

I wonder how owning a boat and holidaying on it in the UK several times a year compares to flying off to sunny climes every year with a couple of flights to Europe for short city breaks?

[IanD]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

I wonder how owning a boat and holidaying on it in the UK several times a year compares to flying off to sunny climes every year with a couple of flights to Europe for short city breaks?

Almost certainly a lot better. But obviously not as environmentally sound as not going anywhere at all and staying at home admiring your stamp collection...

 

It's always easy to find something better than [insert thing here] so long as you don't mind not also having the benefits of [thing].

 

If you do the kind of lifetime-CO2-burden analysis of an electric/hybrid boat over a diesel that has been done for EVs (including manufacturing/disposal/battery costs) I'm pretty sure it would be better eventually, but probably after rather longer since a typical boat uses a lot less diesel than a typical car. Since an EV reaches the break-even point after a couple of years, I suspect the CO2 break-even point for a boat would be at least 5 years, maybe longer -- but it will happen.

[robtheplod]

So when we all switch to electric, how do we heat our water, is that electric too?

 

oops i should read the thread!!!!!

Edited May 11, 2022 by robtheplod

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

So when we all switch to electric, how do we heat our water, is that electric too?

 

oops i should read the thread!!!!!

Trying to work that out, may just get a massive diesel Gen set to save confusion, dohhhhh🤦‍♂️

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Going by the area of solar panels on the roof I'd estimate it has something like 6kWp, which should yield an average of about 18kWh/day in summer and about 5kWh/day in winter.

 

Certainly that should be enough to not need to run the generator in summer, unless cruising all day for several days in a row which seems pretty unlikely given the destination.

 

In winter it might just be OK but I doubt it given the likely use of appliances on the boat, so the generator will have to be run for perhaps an hour per day on average.

 

Of course if it's plugged in none of this matters...

They are working on the boat and are using the batteries rather than landline it's doing very well.  They are going to sort out some other stuff on it as well for hot water in the summer. It also has air con onboard all electric intensive if needed so the genny is a backup just in case like mine. 

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I thought there would be a system in place that could use excess solar to heat your water though a dedicated heating element in the Calorifier(is there such a system on the market?)

  So if not using your generator, would you not just use your 240v heating element, through your Inverter to heat your water in the Calorifier, as you should have a big enough battery bank and Inverter to cope?

 

There will be a solar dump for heating water, they are sorting it out, Riccy is making it fully automatic instead of the big DC switch I have 

[Momac]

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I wonder how owning a boat and holidaying on it in the UK several times a year compares to flying off to sunny climes every year with a couple of flights to Europe for short city breaks?

Google found this

 

Lets take the average value of 3.5 Litres per 100km 

Example

Athens and  return from UK midlands  is 5000km

For two people (5000/100)x 3.5 x 2=350 Litres

Example 

UK Midlands to Verona

2400km return = 168 litres 

 

 

Obviously shorter  distances less fuel

For comparison with a single handed boater the flight fuel use is halved.

I use something like 1000 litres of fuel  in the boat per year 

 

 

So could do 3 or 5 trips to Europe (depending on destination)  for the same fuel costs per couple.

 

That surprised me really as I had expected the fuel use for flights to be a lot higher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PD1964]

10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

There will be a solar dump for heating water, they are sorting it out, Riccy is making it fully automatic instead of the big DC switch I have 

Just did a quick Google on 12v Immersion heaters, I see you can get 12v dump heaters. So without looking too much into it, I suppose you could fit separate 12v and 240v immersions into a Calorifier and use battery/solar and 240v/Generator when conditions dictate.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Just did a quick Google on 12v Immersion heaters, I see you can get 12v dump heaters. So without looking too much into it, I suppose you could fit separate 12v and 240v immersions into a Calorifier and use battery/solar and 240v/Generator when conditions dictate.

Much easier to use a standard 230V immersion heater driven off the inverter, the main battery bank will be 48V anyway not 12V.

[PD1964]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

Much easier to use a standard 230V immersion heater driven off the inverter, the main battery bank will be 48V anyway not 12V.

Yes I know, I asked this earlier and you said you would be running your generator for hot water. I’m curious if a 2x immersion heater system would work, a standard 230v heater run off inverter/ landline and a 12/24/48v dump heater using excess solar, so no need to run a generator like you plan to do while travelling? Obviously all dependent on time of year and sun hours.

[IanD]

47 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Yes I know, I asked this earlier and you said you would be running your generator for hot water. I’m curious if a 2x immersion heater system would work, a standard 230v heater run off inverter/ landline and a 12/24/48v dump heater using excess solar, so no need to run a generator like you plan to do while travelling? Obviously all dependent on time of year and sun hours.

 

There's no need to do that; in this case the excess solar sources current (via MPPT controllers) at 48V DC which the inverter turns into 230Vac which can (if desired) power the immersion heater. Plan is to have a 2kW immersion heater which can absorb a bit more power than the panels can generate; if the batteries reach full charge and the water isn't too hot then the immersion will be turned on instead of the MPPT being turned off.

 

If there's enough excess solar to provide both required electrical power (and keep the batteries charged) and heat the water, the generator doesn't have to run at all. If there isn't enough for power then it needs to run to recharge the batteries, and while it's doing so the cooling system heats the water in the calorifier. If there's enough power from solar for electric but none spare for the immersion, the boiler heats the water up (second coil in calorifier).

 

To make this all work properly also needs a twin-coil calorifier with extra-large heating coils (often called "solar coils") which can extract a lot more heat (e.g. 4kW per coil) than standard ones (e.g. 1kW per coil), otherwise the generator (or boiler) has to run for a long time just to heat the water up.

Edited May 11, 2022 by IanD