Starting Engine

[jdoe]

Don’t know why I can’t add them back to OP but here is the picture for reference.

 

I tried starting the Engine with the starter pushed in and then tried when out as it’s shown above.

Edited March 14, 2022 by jdoe

[Slim]

The question I would like to ask jdoe is what made him buy an abandoned project boat when he obviously has no knowledge of boats, boating and engines.

[jdoe]

1 minute ago, Slim said:

The question I would like to ask jdoe is what made him buy an abandoned project boat when he obviously has no knowledge of boats, boating and engines.

Was a project boat that got ‘finished’ recently, finished is open to interpretation, open to do some work on it or use as is, it’s bare-bones atm I’m going to get help with it by my uncle.

[Tony Brooks]

23 minutes ago, jdoe said:

I tried starting the Engine with the starter pushed in and then tried when out as it’s shown above.

 

If no one said this before work the stop control (it is not a start control) while looking at what is connected to the other end of the cable. make  sure the lever on the other end goes to it full travel when you push the lever in. The reason is it looks as if it might be a Bowden cable  and when those get old all too often loose movement so the engine lever does not return to the run position.

 

I suspect from the description that it might be a flat battery problem. How fast does the engine spin over when compared with a car?

 

I am afraid "Lister engine" is not much help, that could be anything from a small one cylinder air cooled engine to a huge six or eight cylinder water cooled monster and all in between. I suspect it may be a two or three cylinder air cooled SR or SL, so  for future reference post a photo of it so we might be abale to identify it.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

27 minutes ago, jdoe said:

tried starting the Engine with the starter pushed in and then tried when out

Now push that back in so you don’t forget

it HAS to be in

did you check the cable? it operates a lever, which has to move freely.

 

You now need to find out if you’ve enough diesel. 
When you find out, post again.

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I suspect from the description that it might be a flat battery problem. How fast does the engine spin over when compared with a car?

@jdoe - post a video with sound of the engine when you are trying to start it. If we can hear the rah-rah-rah as it tries to start we will have a better idea of whether it is turning fast enough to start or not.  Too slow would suggest a flat battery or possibly starter motor or wiring problems. If its fast enough then lack of fuel, a need for bleeding or an incorrectly functioning stop control would be more likely candidates.

 

Your Lister doesn't by chance have the hand start gear fitted?

 

[john.k]

Assuming its a SR2 or 3 ..then it will have a pull out excess fuel plunger which is part of the throttle/stopper controll on the governor housing......but the excess fuel plunger wont stay applied without full throttle ...........and I think Listers are hard to start in any case without full throttle applied.

[roland elsdon]

Mine which is likely older than that starts on tick over without the excess fuel lifter. I have had five listers none has ever been started on full throttle.

3 have been hand start only.

 The only time i used the lifter was in very sub zero temps with frost on the rocker boxes. The issue then wss getting my winding arm up to full throttle., and not getting bounced through the engine room doors.

[john.k]

My only Lister ATM is in a dumptruck,and it wont hand start without a brick on the accelerator pedal...............as said ,it doesnt need extra fuel,but its not cold either when I use it.............In fact ,when starting any diesel.I always give full throttle until the engine fires,then cut back to limit too much revs on a cold engine......as there are many diesels that dont give full fuel for start ,......it depends on how the injection system is designed.

[LadyG]

On 13/03/2022 at 20:55, MtB said:

Drip feeding crucial information into a thread asking for help never endears new posters to people here!

Especily specially grumpy old posters, no names, no pack drill 😅

To be honest, I loved his style, esp the fuel cap, lol ( laughed out loud)! 

Edited March 16, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Especily specially grumpy old posters, to be honest, I loved his style, espthe fuel cap, lol

 

What, you mean being feebly defeated by a fuel cap with an obvious method of unscrewing it? 

 

 

[LadyG]

On 15/03/2022 at 02:36, john.k said:

My only Lister ATM is in a dumptruck,and it wont hand start without a brick on the accelerator pedal...............as said ,it doesnt need extra fuel,but its not cold either when I use it.............In fact ,when starting any diesel.I always give full throttle until the engine fires,then cut back to limit too much revs on a cold engine......as there are many diesels that dont give full fuel for start ,......it depends on how the injection system is designed.

Interesting, I read somewhere there is no point in that technique, but I don't have a Lister, mine is Isuzu. 

 

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

What, you mean being feebly defeated by a fuel cap with an obvious method of unscrewing it? 

 

 

Absolutely, makes me feel like a pro 😊

On 13/03/2022 at 20:56, Rob-M said:

It's after 8pm so it knows you aren't allowed to start it now.

Well that's advisory, and you will irritate folks, but if it's not actually starting....... 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Well that's advisory, and you will irritate folks, but if it's not actually starting......

 

 

Why do you think its advisory?

 

The 'no engines between 8pm and 8am' rule is mandatory IIRC.

 

Ok there is an argument that license T&Cs are not enforceable in extremis, but you try getting a license whilst refusing to sign up agreeing to them! 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, LadyG said:

Interesting, I read somewhere there is no point in that technique, but I don't have a Lister, mine is Isuzu. 

 

 

In theory when a diesel stops the governor (rack/control rod) should go to the maximum  speed position by spring pressure. This may be against a stop that can be moved to allow the governor to move to excess fuel for cold starting. That is the theory but if the governor is a bit sticky it may not move to maximum speed or excess fuel on its own and it is then that fully opening the throttle  may help. Once the engine is running vibration seems to help keep the governor moving as it should. Now the Lister that is probably the OP's has individual injector pumps, one per cylinder, all liked together and if a pump twists very slightly it will stiffen the control so opening the throttle for starting can help.

 

The important thing s to get the speed down as soon as the engine starts.

 

I think some Isuzus use individual pumps but I think they are secured by fours bolts rather than a single bolt and clamp so are far less likely to suffer a stiff governor rack.

[john.k]

People go on about letting engines idle.....but get a genset,and as soon as it fires ,its up to full revs and it stays there.........In fact with many big gensets ,its likely to cause breakages if there is any attempt made to idle.

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, john.k said:

People go on about letting engines idle.....but get a genset,and as soon as it fires ,its up to full revs and it stays there.........In fact with many big gensets ,its likely to cause breakages if there is any attempt made to idle.

 

But gen sets are speed controlled by one means or another. I very much doubt they go straight to 4400RPM (BMC1.5), far more likely they will be limited to 1500 rpm or less if there is a gearbox used to alter the generator revs. Maybe 3000 rpm on a modern set. We are discussing propulsion engines not gen sets and I for one would hate to allow an old BMC, or come to that any other engine, to rev to maximum straight from a cold start. You will also notice I did not say get the speed down to idle, I just said get the speed down.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

Why do you think its advisory?

 

The 'no engines between 8pm and 8am' rule is mandatory IIRC.

 

Ok there is an argument that license T&Cs are not enforceable in extremis, but you try getting a license whilst refusing to sign up agreeing to them! 

The engine is not running if it won't start.

My post was in reference to the time of OPs post which was commented on by someone else. 

Ive seen boats pottering past pretty late night, so they probably started and warmed engine up after 8pm. 

I always take this as advisory to prevent battery charging, not cruising. If I was was going to start after 8pm, I'd have engine on for a few minutes, just to get ropes off, although I probably warm engine up earlier,  but sometimes plans change. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, LadyG said:

I always take this as advisory to prevent battery charging, not cruising. 

 

If you read the T&Cs it specifically excludes cruising so you can start your engine at midnight if you so wish, you can even charge your batteries by cruising a few miles.

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The engine is not running if it won't start.

My post was in reference to the time of OPs post which was commented on by someone else. 

Ive seen boats pottering past pretty late night, so they probably started and warmed engine up after 8pm. 

I always take this as advisory to prevent battery charging, not cruising. If I was was going to start after 8pm, I'd have engine on for a few minutes, just to get ropes off, although I probably warm engine up earlier,  but sometimes plans change. 

 

 

I don't think you've actually read the T&C then.

 

 

[LadyG]

38 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I don't think you've actually read the T&C then.

 

 

I  thought cruising at night is permitted, the engine is going to be running. 

What about locking through at night, quite often there are habitations quite close. 

I've no doubt some not friendly boater will make me aware of my contraventions.

I've had locals telling me off, once for mooring for a few weeks  when canal traffic movement prohibited (a breach), once for staying over near a short term mooring, which was not signposted, and not in the CRT summer. I think I had been there 24 hours, I can't remember. The woman later apologised for shouting at me, and  brought me cake. 🍰

I even had one, a farmer complaining I was on a lock landing, well yes I was, I'd been there one minute, had just arrived and was actually still tying my ropes when he had a go at me, no idea why it had anything to do with him, except his farm is opposite the lock landing. He complained about rubbish being left by boaters. That annoys me too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by LadyG

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, john.k said:

People go on about letting engines idle.....but get a genset,and as soon as it fires ,its up to full revs and it stays there.........In fact with many big gensets ,its likely to cause breakages if there is any attempt made to idle.

 

Most of the gen sets projects I managed had crankcase heaters to ensure that the coolant was up to temperature and the oil fairly warm before starting to prevent excessive wear.

 

Part of the commissioning test specification was acceptance of 110% rated load from a cold (but with crankcase heaters on) in one step for normally aspirated engines and two steps (60% then 50% within 30 seconds) for turbocharged engines.

 

One project had a large Dorman powered generator (2000kVA) that started at 1800rpm (60hz) and dropped to.1500rpm (50hz) to meet the load acceptance condition.

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Most of the gen sets projects I managed had crankcase heaters to ensure that the coolant was up to temperature and the oil fairly warm before starting to prevent excessive wear.

 

Part of the commissioning test specification was acceptance of 110% rated load from a cold (but with crankcase heaters on) in one step for normally aspirated engines and two steps (60% then 50% within 30 seconds) for turbocharged engines.

 

One project had a large Dorman powered generator (2000kVA) that started at 1800rpm (60hz) and dropped to.1500rpm (50hz) to meet the load acceptance condition.

Our Caterpillars would auto start and come on full load but again kept warm, They would even start and auto synchronise if required (some times). We normally ran two gas fuelled ones in parallel with a diesel standby. All 3 were the same size but the diesel was quite a bit more powerful.

Edited March 16, 2022 by ditchcrawler

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Our Caterpillars would auto start and come on full load but again kept warm, They would even start and auto synchronise if required (some times). We normally ran two gas fuelled ones in parallel with a diesel standby. All 3 were the same size but the diesel was quite a bit more powerful.

 

My first generator project back in 1985-86 was for two Cummins 2000kVA gensets, with auto sync to each other (or shut one down) depending on load and then auto sync to two incoming mains supplies on mains return. Included auto load shedding if the load exceeded generator capacity, should one fail to start.

 

Still in operation as far as I am aware.

 

As project manager I was responsible for design, specification, installation, commissioning and successful handover to client. Happy days.

 

[MtB]

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

I  thought cruising at night is permitted, the engine is going to be running. 

What about locking through at night, quite often there are habitations quite close. 

I've no doubt some not friendly boater will make me aware of my contraventions.

I've had locals telling me off, once for mooring for a few weeks  when canal traffic movement prohibited (a breach), once for staying over near a short term mooring, which was not signposted, and not in the CRT summer. I think I had been there 24 hours, I can't remember. The woman later apologised for shouting at me, and  brought me cake. 🍰

I even had one, a farmer complaining I was on a lock landing, well yes I was, I'd been there one minute, had just arrived and was actually still tying my ropes when he had a go at me, no idea why it had anything to do with him, except his farm is opposite the lock landing. He complained about rubbish being left by boaters. That annoys me too. 

 

 

 

Like I suggested but now I'm sure. You definitely haven't looked up and read the relevant condition!

 

 

[LadyG]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Like I suggested but now I'm sure. You definitely haven't looked up and read the relevant condition!

 

 

. Im not sure anyone studies these things in great depth. I'll get around to it this year. 🙂

Edited March 16, 2022 by LadyG