Smokeless Rubbish?

[Slim]

On 19/02/2022 at 14:19, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Ah.

 

Think I'll pass then.

For a couple of years I was seduced into buying seemingly cheap Wickes (and others) smokeless fuel not by the price but by the fact that it came in 10 kg bags. However I find that  all the cheaper fuel burn more quickly and  produce more ash. I've gone back to Excel.

 

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, canals are us? said:

I used to burn Oxbow red. Now smokeless and not as good.

 

I agree, For the last tree years I found Red almost as good as Excel but not as smelly when igniting  but this year the quantity of ash is horrendous.

[bizzard]

Many folk I suspect get used to setting their stoves controls for a certain brand and when that brand changes is composition a little or they change to a different brand or try different brands wonder why some make more ash or burn away faster or slower is probably because any changes usually need a bit of alteration to the stoves controls. I've used loads of different makes over the years and found after using each type for a few hours some needed slightly different settings. But I found they were all much of a muchness really. Lately I've been using Brazier from ''The Range'' at £3.99p 10 kg bags which will burn away quickly and natually produce more ash because of that, same as Flame from Aldi, but a slight adjustment of my controls and it will burn slowly and produce moderate amount of ash, no more than any other really. Anthracite is a different kettle of fish of course. And it's best to use smaller nuts with small grate area stoves and bigger nuts for bigger stoves,

[peterboat]

On 19/02/2022 at 16:26, pearley said:

40% less CO2 than house coal, doesn't say how different to smokeless.

 

Tried Phurnacite once on the Boatman and not impressed.

Its made from Olive Pitts, Julian recommended it before we bought it for home use and are very pleased with it. We buy it from Wicks, we get free charging there so discount on the fuel if you buy 3 bags free charge and Micky D is close for a coffee and bun along with some other shops.

Forgot to say we have a gas poker so just light and push it in lights quickly

Edited February 22, 2022 by peterboat

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Many folk I suspect get used to setting their stoves controls for a certain brand and when that brand changes is composition a little or they change to a different brand or try different brands wonder why some make more ash or burn away faster or slower is probably because any changes usually need a bit of alteration to the stoves controls. I've used loads of different makes over the years and found after using each type for a few hours some needed slightly different settings. But I found they were all much of a muchness really. Lately I've been using Brazier from ''The Range'' at £3.99p 10 kg bags which will burn away quickly and natually produce more ash because of that, same as Flame from Aldi, but a slight adjustment of my controls and it will burn slowly and produce moderate amount of ash, no more than any other really. Anthracite is a different kettle of fish of course. And it's best to use smaller nuts with small grate area stoves and bigger nuts for bigger stoves,

 

As per earlier in the thread there has been a fundamental change to the composition of smokeless fuels under the banner of 'ready to burn'.

 

Our supplier confirmed this when we spoke to him to complain about the amount of ash we are now getting from what was the 'same' product as last year.

 

It's another case of something being ostensibly better for the environment but the result being an inferior user experience.

[peterboat]

On 19/02/2022 at 17:12, The Happy Nomad said:

 

OK I'll get a bag and try it and see how I get on.

 

Noticed in B&M today they have 'EcoBurn' packaged in a very similar way with same claims on the packaging and made from the same stuff.

 

From CPL

 

Edit - just cross checked and the CPL product is not a like for like product.

 

Further edit - it seems CPL actualy make both products!

try it and let us know how it goes? I tried to buy some but B & M didnt have any

[Guest]

Just now, peterboat said:

try it and let us know how it goes? I tried to buy some but B & M didnt have any

 

I will do. We still have some of our normal stuff to use in the bunker but I will give it a try at some point and post back.

[Guest]

Curiosity has got the better of me so as I was next door nipped into B&M to buy a bag. £4.99 for 10kg.

 

So far it has lit very easily with a fire lighter and a few sticks of kindling which is our normal method.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[Mikexx]

On 19/02/2022 at 13:04, Loddon said:

Possibly but it produces 40% less net CO2 and is cheaper than Phurnacite 😉

 

Given most smokeless coal should be pure carbon, with the volatile components removed, 40% less CO2 suggests 40% less coal, with the remainder being ash.

[GUMPY]

34 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

Given most smokeless coal should be pure carbon, with the volatile components removed, 40% less CO2 suggests 40% less coal, with the remainder being ash.

You obviously didn't read what it's made from 🥱 50% of it is olive stones a renewable fuel. Last time I looked olive stones burned rather well 🤭

[dmr]

23 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You obviously didn't read what it's made from 🥱 50% of it is olive stones a renewable fuel. Last time I looked olive stones burned rather well 🤭

 

I thought it was half olive stones, but if you find and download its data sheet it can be be quite a bit less than that (20 to 35%). It also contains some molasses (15 to 20%), and interestingly a bit of petrocoke.

Still very good stuff and must be better for global warming than 100% coal.

 

£4.84 per 10kG bag deliv

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I thought it was half olive stones, but if you find and download its data sheet it can be be quite a bit less than that (20 to 35%). It also contains some molasses (15 to 20%), and interestingly a bit of petrocoke.

Still very good stuff and must be better for global warming than 100% coal.

 

£4.84 per 10kG bag deliv

 

The CPL Ecoburn version I am trying today is 'up to' 30% crushed olive stones according to the product description.

Edited February 22, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[GUMPY]

I've never delved into the actual composition just taken what it says on the bag 😱

I do find that it needs less air than other fuels bottom dial 1/4 turn open rather than 3/4 😎

[Mikexx]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

You obviously didn't read what it's made from 🥱 50% of it is olive stones a renewable fuel. Last time I looked olive stones burned rather well 🤭

 

I confess to reading your first post properly but at the time of my reply I hadn't yet read your second clarifying it's content.

 

https://www.homefire.co.uk/ecoal50.html

 

Gives a product information of "up to" in every respect. It also says "Emits up to 40% less carbon dioxide than house coal".

 

In Specification is says, "Smoke Emissions:     Less than 5g per hour".

Well, my stove uses coal. But as I'm not burning anything I can easily say the same".

One thing it doesn't saying anything about is heat output. I would go further and say, "Burns up to 38% hotter than house coal" means my stove would wear out quicker while producing less 'heat'.

 

As I expected, eco-friendly-crap product details and spec to take in the unwary. In reality it is 50% coal and can be anything else classed as renewable added for bulk.

 

It is a crying shame that suppliers are not obliged to publish real useful information, such as calorific output (kJ/kg) and some classification of smoke output in terms of smoke(g)/material(kg) as well as ash(kg)/material(kg)

 

Until then it is very likely that eco-friendly coal is far worse than burning logs to the planet and probably on par with coal.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I've never delved into the actual composition just taken what it says on the bag 😱

I do find that it needs less air than other fuels bottom dial 1/4 turn open rather than 3/4 😎

 

This stuff is definitely burning hotter than our normal loose stuff.

 

Our vent has three positions and on the lowest setting the dial on the thermometer on the flue is definitely showing hotter than normal.

 

Oh and the ecofan is definitely spinning faster....😂

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

I confess to reading your first post properly but at the time of my reply I hadn't yet read your second clarifying it's content.

 

https://www.homefire.co.uk/ecoal50.html

 

Gives a product information of "up to" in every respect. It also says "Emits up to 40% less carbon dioxide than house coal".

 

In Specification is says, "Smoke Emissions:     Less than 5g per hour".

Well, my stove uses coal. But as I'm not burning anything I can easily say the same".

One thing it doesn't saying anything about is heat output. I would go further and say, "Burns up to 38% hotter than house coal" means my stove would wear out quicker while producing less 'heat'.

 

As I expected, eco-friendly-crap product details and spec to take in the unwary. In reality it is 50% coal and can be anything else classed as renewable added for bulk.

 

It is a crying shame that suppliers are not obliged to publish real useful information, such as calorific output (kJ/kg) and some classification of smoke output in terms of smoke(g)/material(kg) as well as ash(kg)/material(kg)

 

Until then it is very likely that eco-friendly coal is far worse than burning logs to the planet and probably on par with coal.

 

Don't forget that wood-fired stoves are one of the biggest contributors to UK pollution from small particulates (PM2.5) which are emerging as particularly nasty health hazards -- remember dieselgate?

 

So I guess you could say that they're even better for the planet because they are not only renewable but help kill off pollution-causing humans... 😉

[Guest]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Don't forget that wood-fired stoves are one of the biggest contributors to UK pollution from small particulates (PM2.5) which are emerging as particularly nasty health hazards -- remember dieselgate?

 

So I guess you could say that they're even better for the planet because they are not only renewable but help kill off pollution-causing humans... 😉

 

We have ours fitted with DPF.

[peterboat]

25 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

This stuff is definitely burning hotter than our normal loose stuff.

 

Our vent has three positions and on the lowest setting the dial on the thermometer on the flue is definitely showing hotter than normal.

 

Oh and the ecofan is definitely spinning faster....😂

That's torn it this debate will go on for months! 🤣

28 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

I confess to reading your first post properly but at the time of my reply I hadn't yet read your second clarifying it's content.

 

https://www.homefire.co.uk/ecoal50.html

 

Gives a product information of "up to" in every respect. It also says "Emits up to 40% less carbon dioxide than house coal".

 

In Specification is says, "Smoke Emissions:     Less than 5g per hour".

Well, my stove uses coal. But as I'm not burning anything I can easily say the same".

One thing it doesn't saying anything about is heat output. I would go further and say, "Burns up to 38% hotter than house coal" means my stove would wear out quicker while producing less 'heat'.

 

As I expected, eco-friendly-crap product details and spec to take in the unwary. In reality it is 50% coal and can be anything else classed as renewable added for bulk.

 

It is a crying shame that suppliers are not obliged to publish real useful information, such as calorific output (kJ/kg) and some classification of smoke output in terms of smoke(g)/material(kg) as well as ash(kg)/material(kg)

 

Until then it is very likely that eco-friendly coal is far worse than burning logs to the planet and probably on par with coal.

The thing is it burns great in Jaynes boatman stove so we like it a lot

[GUMPY]

28 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

As I expected, eco-friendly-crap product details and spec to take in the unwary. In reality it is 50% coal and can be anything else classed as renewable added for bulk.

 

It is a crying shame that suppliers are not obliged to publish real useful information, such as calorific output (kJ/kg) and some classification of smoke output in terms of smoke(g)/material(kg) as well as ash(kg)/material(kg)

 

Until then it is very likely that eco-friendly coal is far worse than burning logs to the planet and probably on par with coal

Find me a small stove that will stay in for 12hrs on wood without being touched  and I might think about changing. Until then I will continue doing what I do now as the stove is only on for less than 21 days a year which in the global scheme of things is a tab in the ocean😉

[tree monkey]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Find me a small stove that will stay in for 12hrs on wood without being touched  and I might think about changing. Until then I will continue doing what I do now as the stove is only on for less than 21 days a year which in the global scheme of things is a tab in the ocean😉

I used to easily keep the squirrel going for 12hrs or more on wood, tbf I would imagine any smaller would be difficult to manage 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Find me a small stove that will stay in for 12hrs on wood without being touched  and I might think about changing. Until then I will continue doing what I do now as the stove is only on for less than 21 days a year which in the global scheme of things is a tab in the ocean😉

 

We burn both.

 

Logs on a bed of solid fuel gives a nice flame effect. 

 

Our stove is on for a lot longer than 21 days though as we normally use it as the sole method of heating meaning we dont need to fire up the (gas) central heating when its running. Unless its exremely cold outside.

 

The bottom line is I aint going to sit in a freezing house to pacify some eco zealots. I minimise consumption as best I can but as the stove and the boiler were only fitted 4 1/2 years ago I sure as hell aint ripping them out any time soon to fit a heat pump system even if affording one was viable, which for us it aint.

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I used to easily keep the squirrel going for 12hrs or more on wood, tbf I would imagine any smaller would be difficult to manage 

Squirrel is not a small stove 😱

I run a Hobbit here and to me that's physically a small stove 😎

[tree monkey]

Just now, Loddon said:

Squirrel is not a small stove 😱

I run a Hobbit here and to me that's physically a small stove 😎

Yeah, fair point that's a small stove, difficult to get a big gnarly lump of timber in that

[MtB]

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

I used to easily keep the squirrel going for 12hrs or more on wood, tbf I would imagine any smaller would be difficult to manage 

 

 

Have to say, my old Squirrel would stay in for up to 48 hours with no intervention whatsoever using smokeless stuff like Oxbow Red.  My not-so-new Boatman stove will stay in for about 12 hours max. Very disappointing. 

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Have to say, my old Squirrel would stay in for up to 48 hours with no intervention whatsoever using smokeless stuff like Oxbow Red.  My not-so-new Boatman stove will stay in for about 12 hours max. Very disappointing. 

Jayne gets about 16 hours with the ecoal, quick rake bits of wood and more ecoal and its away again