Smokeless Rubbish?

[tree monkey]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Have to say, my old Squirrel would stay in for up to 48 hours with no intervention whatsoever using smokeless stuff like Oxbow Red.  My not-so-new Boatman stove will stay in for about 12 hours max. Very disappointing. 

Yup, the boatman stove is a very well built little stove but it lacks the control the squirrel has, mind you my last squirrel lasted 10yrs or so, I bet the boatman will still be going after we all burn in a nuclear fire once Putin finally loses it. 

 

My record for wood only on the squirrel was easily over 24hrs but the lump of timber had been horded for precisely that job 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Yup, the boatman stove is a very well built little stove but it lacks the control the squirrel has, mind you my last squirrel lasted 10yrs or so, I bet the boatman will still be going after we all burn in a nuclear fire once Putin finally loses it. 

 

My record for wood only on the squirrel was easily over 24hrs but the lump of timber had been horded for precisely that job 

 

 

My open grate in The Hovel will stay in for at least 2 hours on wood alone.... 

 

 

[tree monkey]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

My open grate in The Hovel will stay in for at least 2 hours on wood alone.... 

 

 

Yeah but you have to really be careful on open grates, bung a bit of leylandii on it and you would be in for an exciting hour or so 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Yeah but you have to really be careful on open grates, bung a bit of leylandii on it and you would be in for an exciting hour or so 

 

I'm gonna have to try that, sounds BRILLIANT!

 

 

[BlueStringPudding]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

Have to say, my old Squirrel would stay in for up to 48 hours with no intervention whatsoever using smokeless stuff like Oxbow Red.  My not-so-new Boatman stove will stay in for about 12 hours max. Very disappointing. 

My Boatman has stayed in over 24 hours before. I find the trick is to get it proper hot with a fast burner like Excel, then bank it up with an ashy slow burner like Supertherm, and turn the vent so it's just a quarter of a turn open. That's what works for me. 😊

[blackrose]

I bought a tonne of generic smokeless ovals bagged in the supplier's branded sacks last summer for £288 inc vat and delivery. I took a gamble as I didn't know what it was exactly but it's been pretty good. Cheap deal at £7.20 for a 25kg bag.

 

Judging by some of the posts on here nobody really knows what they're getting even if they buy a well known brand. In my experience Excel can vary in quality too.

Edited February 22, 2022 by blackrose

[Mikexx]

7 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Don't forget that wood-fired stoves are one of the biggest contributors to UK pollution from small particulates (PM2.5) which are emerging as particularly nasty health hazards -- remember dieselgate?

 

https://www.hetas.co.uk/understanding-the-impact-of-domestic-wood-burning/

 

Suggests these claims are overstated that PM2.5 from wood burning stoves is estimated at 14.9%

 

New diesels produce less PM2.5 than EVs, where most of the car based PM2.5 is from tyres. And EVs are heavier with more tyre wear and hence produce more PM2.5s

 

7 hours ago, IanD said:

 

So I guess you could say that they're even better for the planet because they are not only renewable but help kill off pollution-causing humans... 😉

 

Limiting UK population would be a start. I know, how about pricing-out housing to stop those family households from forming that have children?

[Guest]

On 22/02/2022 at 12:31, peterboat said:

try it and let us know how it goes? I tried to buy some but B & M didnt have any

 

The end result is I dont think I'll be using it permanently.

 

The ash it left was probably marginally less than our normal stuff and it does burn hotter but it works out more expensive.

 

The biggy for me though would handling the number of bags. At the moment we get 150kg, sometimes more, dropped into our bunker by our coalman, no intervention from me required. I then just have to shovel relatively small amounts into our scuttle.

 

What I will be doing though is using it as a top up if I run out before we are due a delivery.

 

If the bag handling is not an issue I would say give it a go.

[peterboat]

18 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

https://www.hetas.co.uk/understanding-the-impact-of-domestic-wood-burning/

 

Suggests these claims are overstated that PM2.5 from wood burning stoves is estimated at 14.9%

 

New diesels produce less PM2.5 than EVs, where most of the car based PM2.5 is from tyres. And EVs are heavier with more tyre wear and hence produce more PM2.5s

 

 

Limiting UK population would be a start. I know, how about pricing-out housing to stop those family households from forming that have children?

The reality is no matter what you do when you burn diesel carbon comes out of the exhaust the size of the PMs if very small are very dangerous as they can pass into the bloodstream. EVs might wear out tyres but all cars do and all cars seem to be getting bigger and heavier. My I3 is made of aluminium carbon fiber and plastic its light so not all EVs are heavy. 

[Mikexx]

21 minutes ago, peterboat said:

The reality is no matter what you do when you burn diesel carbon comes out of the exhaust the size of the PMs if very small are very dangerous as they can pass into the bloodstream. EVs might wear out tyres but all cars do and all cars seem to be getting bigger and heavier. My I3 is made of aluminium carbon fiber and plastic its light so not all EVs are heavy. 

 

The reality is that very little exhaust comes out of new diesels, especially PM2.5s We should be more concerned over the origins of these particulates rather than criticising diesels from some for of hatred or justification for EVs without looking at the bigger picture of particulate footprints.

Diesel vehicles could also be made from aluminium and carbon fibre. Leading to a lighter vehicle and less harmful particulates than their heavier EV counterparts.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Mikexx said:

 

The reality is that very little exhaust comes out of new diesels, especially PM2.5s We should be more concerned over the origins of these particulates rather than criticising diesels from some for of hatred or justification for EVs without looking at the bigger picture of particulate footprints.

Diesel vehicles could also be made from aluminium and carbon fibre. Leading to a lighter vehicle and less harmful particulates than their heavier EV counterparts.

I owned a garage I know how dirty a modern diesel is I have seen all the fixes that are done when the emissions equipment fails and are to expensive to fix! They are a gross polluter and Euro 7 will finish them! Sales are collapsing monthly EVs sell more now which is a good thing 

[Mikexx]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I owned a garage I know how dirty a modern diesel is I have seen all the fixes that are done when the emissions equipment fails and are to expensive to fix! They are a gross polluter and Euro 7 will finish them! Sales are collapsing monthly EVs sell more now which is a good thing 

 

Owned implies past tense, and given cars don't need an MOT until they're 3 years old, I trust what you have seen is rather dated.

 

In practice the MOT has become more strict, to what should and shouldn't pass, and the modifications you imply would be outlawed.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Mikexx said:

 

Owned implies past tense, and given cars don't need an MOT until they're 3 years old, I trust what you have seen is rather dated.

 

In practice the MOT has become more strict, to what should and shouldn't pass, and the modifications you imply would be outlawed.

No it hasn't its still a basic smoke test, clearly you aren't a mechanic. I also still have an interest in the garage so know exactly what it happening, which since Euro6 D temp is nothing. Euro 6 was a washout and was replaced with lots of diesel engines being dropped as they had fiddled the test. Do some research on why diesels aren't selling and EVs are outselling them 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No it hasn't its still a basic smoke test.

 

It is however a much stricter smoke test than it was previously.

 

I belive its now none visible and changed around 2017/18

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[MtB]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

No it hasn't its still a basic smoke test, clearly you aren't a mechanic. I also still have an interest in the garage so know exactly what it happening, which since Euro6 D temp is nothing. Euro 6 was a washout and was replaced with lots of diesel engines being dropped as they had fiddled the test. Do some research on why diesels aren't selling and EVs are outselling them 

 

 

Is it because EVs are so amazingly cheap at the moment? 

 

 

[Mikexx]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

No it hasn't its still a basic smoke test, clearly you aren't a mechanic. I also still have an interest in the garage so know exactly what it happening, which since Euro6 D temp is nothing. Euro 6 was a washout and was replaced with lots of diesel engines being dropped as they had fiddled the test. Do some research on why diesels aren't selling and EVs are outselling them 

 

Clearly you haven't been a mechanic for a while. PM2.5 are the contents of smoke. No smoke is allowed in a Euro 6 diesel engine MOT test, and modern diesels produce less PM2.5 than their petrol equivalents as well as less CO2. If you were aware of the properties of PM2.5 you would know they produce smoke and a basic smoke measurement would tell you how much PM2.5 there is in the exhaust. There is far more PM2.5 in cigarette smoke and in tyre wear of EVs.

 

Anyone versed on the subject would know that tyre wear is a major cause of PM2.5:

  https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/pollution-tyre-wear-worse-exhaust-emissions

 

Many manufacturers did indeed fudge results, but that was associated with NOx output, and as you should know, being an ex-mechanic, that AdBlue additive is effective in removing NOx from the exhaust.

 

For NOx, we should place more attention onto gas boilers than diesel cars:

 https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2020/analysis-gas-boilers-and-nox-the-hidden-emitter

 

The research is as follows: the forecast suggests than in 2022 EVs may outsell diesels. That will be down to lower tax and subsidies awarded to EVs and charging installations. HMRC also only charge employees 1% of the car list price for Benefit in Kind, NI and Income Tax, compared withup to 37% for large petrol/diesel cars.

[peterboat]

6 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

Clearly you haven't been a mechanic for a while. PM2.5 are the contents of smoke. No smoke is allowed in a Euro 6 diesel engine MOT test, and modern diesels produce less PM2.5 than their petrol equivalents as well as less CO2. If you were aware of the properties of PM2.5 you would know they produce smoke and a basic smoke measurement would tell you how much PM2.5 there is in the exhaust. There is far more PM2.5 in cigarette smoke and in tyre wear of EVs.

 

Anyone versed on the subject would know that tyre wear is a major cause of PM2.5:

  https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/pollution-tyre-wear-worse-exhaust-emissions

 

Many manufacturers did indeed fudge results, but that was associated with NOx output, and as you should know, being an ex-mechanic, that AdBlue additive is effective in removing NOx from the exhaust.

 

For NOx, we should place more attention onto gas boilers than diesel cars:

 https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2020/analysis-gas-boilers-and-nox-the-hidden-emitter

 

The research is as follows: the forecast suggests than in 2022 EVs may outsell diesels. That will be down to lower tax and subsidies awarded to EVs and charging installations. HMRC also only charge employees 1% of the car list price for Benefit in Kind, NI and Income Tax, compared withup to 37% for large petrol/diesel cars.

The reason that they charge higher taxes for diesel and petrol cars is they produce more pollution! All cars wear out tyres  EVs produce little brake wear because of regeneration braking and no local air pollution from engines, so they are a lot cleaner than a ICE vehicle can ever be. Ad blue, DPF are problematic and are removed with a ECU remap hiding it, they easily pass a simple smoke test. As I have said you aren't a mechanic I am and I have seen the above plenty of times. As for tyre wear my own EVs don't seem to be wearing tyres out any faster than previous ICE vehicles, the reality is diesel cars are finished followed by petrol cars shortly afterwards. 

[GUMPY]

I am looking to buy a five year old  diesel Yeti to replace my 12 year old one. Prices have gone through the roof and there is only one available in the UK of the spec that I want. Diesels must still be popular 🤭

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

It is however a much stricter smoke test than it was previously.

 

I belive its now none visible and changed around 2017/18

 

 

Martin even with a stricter smoke test my diesel camper passes it has a 98 year engine with basic catalytic converter 

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

I am looking to buy a five year old  diesel Yeti to replace my 12 year old one. Prices have gone through the roof and there is only one available in the UK of the spec that I want. Diesels must still be popular 🤭

Try buying an EV some new ones have a year wait! All secondhand newer vehicles have gone sky high  leave it Julian until the chip shortage is over and normality returns. I paid 15K for my I3 they are changing hands for 20-21K at the moment!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Martin even with a stricter smoke test my diesel camper passes it has a 98 year engine with basic catalytic converter 

 

Yes so does my 2018 Kuga.

 

I was just pointing out the test got stricter that is all. There was a claim being made at the time that it would drive thousands upon thousands of older diesels off the road, which doesnt appear to have come to fruition.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I am looking to buy a five year old  diesel Yeti to replace my 12 year old one. Prices have gone through the roof and there is only one available in the UK of the spec that I want. Diesels must still be popular 🤭

 

Used ones will be for a while yet I reckon.

 

Im holding on to my 2018 Kuga diesel for a while longer yet for sure. Its still under average mileage due to the pandemic and lack of ability to do the European trips.

 

(Peter will of course pop up and tell us this will only be economically viable for not very much longe).

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Used ones will be for a while yet I reckon.

 

Im holding on to my 2018 Kuga diesel for a while longer yet for sure. Its still under average mileage due to the pandemic and lack of ability to do the European trips.

 

(Peter will of course pop up and tell us this will only be economically viable for not very much longe).

I won't Martin there is no point in scrapping cars just for the sake of it, it just might get expensive using them, remember I have an old T3 camper and would like to continue using it, but in reality it could get hard work with low pollution zones and possibly high fuel prices 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I won't Martin there is no point in scrapping cars just for the sake of it, it just might get expensive using them, remember I have an old T3 camper and would like to continue using it, but in reality it could get hard work with low pollution zones and possibly high fuel prices 

 

But that wasnt the prediction by some at the time.

 

It was the 'final nail in the coffin' of the dirty diesels.

 

Sun and Mail journalistic bullshit at its finest.

 

And Im pretty sure it was claimed on here too.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[Mikexx]

22 hours ago, peterboat said:

I owned a garage I know how dirty a modern diesel is I have seen all the fixes that are done when the emissions equipment fails and are to expensive to fix! They are a gross polluter and Euro 7 will finish them! Sales are collapsing monthly EVs sell more now which is a good thing 

 

You simply don't know how dirty a modern diesel is. You have been told, with links to show the source of this claim, there are more PM2.5s come from tyres than exhausts, yet seem unable to grasp this simple fact, or simply don't want to because you've bought an EV and feel the need to publicly justify your purchase.

 

Where there are tax incentives and subsidies to buy EVs, plus the uncertainty surrounding diesels, of course diesel sales will decline and EVs increase. It isn't rocket science. Sales of diesels are not collapsing, this year they should be on par to EV sales, some predict slightly less. Either way, hardly a collapse.

 

In some quarters EVs can't be given away:

  https://www-francetvinfo-fr.translate.goog/economie/transports/autolib/transports-la-deuxieme-vie-des-autolib_3423995.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Euro4,000 for a EV with warranty is good value. Shame they're LHD.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Mikexx said:

 

You simply don't know how dirty a modern diesel is. You have been told, with links to show the source of this claim, there are more PM2.5s come from tyres than exhausts, yet seem unable to grasp this simple fact, or simply don't want to because you've bought an EV and feel the need to publicly justify your purchase.

 

Where there are tax incentives and subsidies to buy EVs, plus the uncertainty surrounding diesels, of course diesel sales will decline and EVs increase. It isn't rocket science. Sales of diesels are not collapsing, this year they should be on par to EV sales, some predict slightly less. Either way, hardly a collapse.

 

In some quarters EVs can't be given away:

  https://www-francetvinfo-fr.translate.goog/economie/transports/autolib/transports-la-deuxieme-vie-des-autolib_3423995.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Euro4,000 for a EV with warranty is good value. Shame they're LHD.

They have gone from being the biggest share of the market to also ran! That's a collapse, you can dream that they are clean, but some low emission zones are going to make them pay even though they are Euro 6 d temp! As I said Euro 7 will see them gone and you keep on forgetting that most SUVs are diesel, massively heavy so produce tyre PM exhaust PM and general emissions, nothing clean about them at all. I don't have to justify my purchase of 3 EVs because they are saving me a fortune as well as saving people's lives 

Edited February 24, 2022 by peterboat