Smokeless Rubbish?

[frangar]

Well I’m picking up a new diesel SUV next week…electric just doesn’t work for long journeys that I do for work lugging a load of kit….not to mention not being able to charge it at my mooring…I could charge at my unit but it would cost rather a lot….and I’m buggered if I’m hanging round a service station at 3am for an  hour waiting for it to charge. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

Well I’m picking up a new diesel SUV next week…electric just doesn’t work for long journeys that I do for work lugging a load of kit….not to mention not being able to charge it at my mooring…I could charge at my unit but it would cost rather a lot….and I’m buggered if I’m hanging round a service station at 3am for an  hour waiting for it to charge. 

 

What have you gone for?

[frangar]

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

 

What have you gone for?

Another Mazda CX-5 on contract hire…had one for last 3 years and can’t fault it. Going for 184bhp this time. They’ve just done a facelift as well which was handy as it coincides with present lease ending. 

[Guest]

Just now, frangar said:

Another Mazda CX-5 on contract hire…had one for last 3 years and can’t fault it. Going for 184bhp this time. They’ve just done a facelift as well which was handy as it coincides with present lease ending. 

 

Nice car. 

 

 

[frangar]

14 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Nice car. 

 

 

Best be….ordered it in November!! 

[Guest]

Just now, frangar said:

Best be….ordered it in November!! 

 

Ah...

 

Daughter's Skoda took seven months.

 

Dont forget the tow bar, they make excellent tow cars. Very well regarded in the caravanning fraternity....

[frangar]

1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Ah...

 

Daughter's Skoda took seven months.

 

Dont forget the tow bar, they make excellent tow cars. Very well regarded in the caravanning fraternity....

Someone I know has been waiting a year for a fiat!! God knows why….

 

No tow bar….I use hotels rather than a box on wheels…..

[Mikexx]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

They have gone from being the biggest share of the market to also ran! That's a collapse, you can dream that they are clean, but some low emission zones are going to make them pay even though they are Euro 6 d temp! As I said Euro 7 will see them gone and you keep on forgetting that most SUVs are diesel, massively heavy so produce tyre PM exhaust PM and general emissions, nothing clean about them at all. I don't have to justify my purchase of 3 EVs because they are saving me a fortune as well as saving people's lives 

 

 

Petrol cars have always outsold diesel, and if you were a mechanic you should know this. A jump by 30% in EVs is hardly surprising. 30% of not a lot is guess what, still not a lot.

Certainly diesel's market share have decreased and continue their decline, displaced by petrol and hybrid plug-ins with a petrol engine. It's ironic that the petrol engine will be dirtier and produce more CO2 than it's diesel counterpart if it was a diesel hybrid.

The most successful EV is the Tesla, in fact dominating EV sales. It is also a very heavy car, weighing in at a nominal 1.8 tonnes. So we should expect lots of NEE (Non Exhaust Emissions) such as PM2.5s etc.

This conversation is hardly necessary to justify your recent and expensive purchase. Do you charge your EV running your boat engine perchance? This is a canal forum after all.

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I don't have to justify my purchase of 3 EVs because they are saving me a fortune as well as saving people's lives 

 

 Saving lives?

  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future

 

Yes, we know about tax incentives and subsidies. Let everyone else pay for your motoring.

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

Yes, we know about tax incentives and subsidies. Let everyone else pay for your motoring.

 

It's disgusting the way saving the planet gets conflated with saving money. Virtually every thread about reducing CO2 gets subverted into reducing costs, It's SO depressing. 

[peterboat]

56 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

Petrol cars have always outsold diesel, and if you were a mechanic you should know this. A jump by 30% in EVs is hardly surprising. 30% of not a lot is guess what, still not a lot.

Certainly diesel's market share have decreased and continue their decline, displaced by petrol and hybrid plug-ins with a petrol engine. It's ironic that the petrol engine will be dirtier and produce more CO2 than it's diesel counterpart if it was a diesel hybrid.

The most successful EV is the Tesla, in fact dominating EV sales. It is also a very heavy car, weighing in at a nominal 1.8 tonnes. So we should expect lots of NEE (Non Exhaust Emissions) such as PM2.5s etc.

This conversation is hardly necessary to justify your recent and expensive purchase. Do you charge your EV running your boat engine perchance? This is a canal forum after all.

 Saving lives?

  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future

 

Yes, we know about tax incentives and subsidies. Let everyone else pay for your motoring.

My boat is electric as well 🤣

Anyway cobalt is used in refining oil and many other things I take it you want them to stop that as well? Thought not don't worry your diesel will be safe and very expensive in the future, but still a gross polluter it's high in carbon so it will pollute, I run my camper on HVO and the generator on my boat as well, I know it makes sense 

Edited February 24, 2022 by peterboat

[magnetman]

Tesla are going for LFP batteries apparently. 

 

And the stock price is plummeting quite nicely as well. 

 

Interesting to watch this subject. 

 

I had a ride in a Chevrolet Volt recently. That is a pretty nice motor. Petrol electric hybrid very well executed. 

 

Not a cheap car. Vauxhall Ampera is the same item. 

 

It's petrol for me for the foreseeable as have nowhere to charge up an ev or phev. 

 

I reckon NIO and the removeable battery modules will be the winner in the end. 

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Tesla are going for LFP batteries apparently. 

 

And the stock price is plummeting quite nicely as well. 

 

Interesting to watch this subject. 

 

I had a ride in a Chevrolet Volt recently. That is a pretty nice motor. Petrol electric hybrid very well executed. 

 

Not a cheap car. Vauxhall Ampera is the same item. 

 

It's petrol for me for the foreseeable as have nowhere to charge up an ev or phev. 

 

I reckon NIO and the removeable battery modules will be the winner in the end. 

James bought the car up here it was a steal. As for interchangeable batteries Renault tried it and failed, solid state batteries are just around the corner, very fast charging, lighter and increased range will ensure sales of EVs just go up 

[Mikexx]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My boat is electric as well 🤣

Anyway cobalt is used in refining oil and many other things I take it you want them to stop that as well? Thought not don't worry your diesel will be safe and very expensive in the future, but still a gross polluter it's high in carbon so it will pollute, I run my camper on HVO and the generator on my boat as well, I know it makes sense 

 

I thought your boat might be, and pray, how do you charge these batteries at this time of the year. Do you use a diesel generator perchance? Wouldn't it be more efficient to couple the diesel engine directly to the propeller, and bypass all those charging, discharging inefficiencies, and think of of those children's lives saved.

 

If you looked up cobalt usage, you would have kept schtum if you want to promote EVs.

 

 

Very little cobalt is used in refining oil, and most of that is in refining petrol and and not diesel. Even then most is recycled with very little loss overall. As EVs become a larger market, even more child labour will be needed.

[magnetman]

I still reckon battery exchange is the way to go. 

 

Much easier to account for rapid improvements in battery tech like that. 

 

Rather than a software update you would be able to update the vehicle with a significantly better battery. 

 

I'm not talking about that as a way to avoid charging but as an additional option to charging. Obviously charging is a useful solution in itself but designing a vehicle to have an easily replaceable battery module seems incredibly sensible given the speed at which technology changes. 

 

Of course most people who are selling EVs are looking at profit and short term rather than making the thing last. 

 

Cars are consumables so there is no point making them to last.

Edited February 24, 2022 by magnetman

[Mikexx]

20 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Tesla are going for LFP batteries apparently. 

 

And the stock price is plummeting quite nicely as well. 

 

Interesting to watch this subject. 

 

I had a ride in a Chevrolet Volt recently. That is a pretty nice motor. Petrol electric hybrid very well executed. 

 

Not a cheap car. Vauxhall Ampera is the same item. 

 

It's petrol for me for the foreseeable as have nowhere to charge up an ev or phev. 

 

I reckon NIO and the removeable battery modules will be the winner in the end. 

 

Tesla did a demo on a removable battery and compared swap times with filling a car with fuel. The battery exchange was faster. I have thought that was the way to go, where you could lease and charge batteries as usage required.

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

I thought your boat might be, and pray, how do you charge these batteries at this time of the year. Do you use a diesel generator perchance? Wouldn't it be more efficient to couple the diesel engine directly to the propeller, and bypass all those charging, discharging inefficiencies, and think of of those children's lives saved.

 

If you looked up cobalt usage, you would have kept schtum if you want to promote EVs.

 

 

Very little cobalt is used in refining oil, and most of that is in refining petrol and and not diesel. Even then most is recycled with very little loss overall. As EVs become a larger market, even more child labour will be needed.

 

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I still reckon battery exchange is the way to go. 

 

Much easier to account for rapid improvements in battery tech like that. 

 

Rather than a software update you would be able to update the vehicle with a significantly better battery. 

 

I'm not talking about that as a way to avoid charging but as an additional option to charging. Obviously charging is a useful solution in itself but designing a vehicle to have an easily replaceable battery module seems incredibly sensible given the speed at which technology changes. 

 

Of course most people who are selling EVs are looking at profit and short term rather than making the thing last. 

 

Cars are consumables so there is no point making them to last.

 

Just now, Mikexx said:

 

Tesla did a demo on a removable battery and compared swap times with filling a car with fuel. The battery exchange was faster. I have thought that was the way to go, where you could lease and charge batteries as usage required.

The battery exchange was a miserable failure, plus the voltage that batteries put out now 400 to 800 volts connections could wear rapidly, also coolant is in there it to complicated. As for batteries some don't use cobalt do they Andrew? Like the ones in my boat 🙃 and the ones you were alluding to Andrew in some Tesla's. 

Anyway my boat charging is mostly solar 4.6 kw supplies a lot of electric, if you read my post and was an engineer you would know what HVO is. And because you arnt an engineer you don't realise how inefficient boat engines are, how incredibly dirty they are and how efficient electric propulsion is, lots of threads on here about it, have a read and learn something.

 

[Guest]

How can you tell somebody drives an electric car?

 

You dont need to, they will tell you.

 

(Rather like vegetarians)

[peterboat]

41 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

 

Tesla did a demo on a removable battery and compared swap times with filling a car with fuel. The battery exchange was faster. I have thought that was the way to go, where you could lease and charge batteries as usage required.

Most EV owners charge at home whilst asleep or take advantage of free charging which is widely available. 

[manxmike]

Hydrogen is the way forward, cheaper, less polluting and safer than  the current range of electric cars

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

I thought your boat might be, and pray, how do you charge these batteries at this time of the year. Do you use a diesel generator perchance? Wouldn't it be more efficient to couple the diesel engine directly to the propeller, and bypass all those charging, discharging inefficiencies, and think of of those children's lives saved.

 

 

If you're just charging batteries while stationary, a typical diesel generator is about 25% efficient (fuel in to leccy out), a typical propulsion diesel engine and alternator is about 10% efficient because of the low engine power level and poor alternator efficiency. So the generator only uses about 40% of the fuel that the engine does.

 

If you're using it to propel the boat, with typical canal use (cruising/passing moored boats/locks) an electric boat where all the power comes from the generator uses about 60% of the fuel that a diesel engine does -- analysis of this can be found on another thread, and this has been confirmed by measurements in the Ortomarine trial. If half the power comes from solar panels (big panel array in summer) the fuel use drops to 30%. If all of the power comes from solar (occasional or short cruising days in summer) the fuel use drops to 0% of diesel.

 

So lots of fuel and children's lives saved 😉

7 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Hydrogen is the way forward, cheaper, less polluting and safer than  the current range of electric cars

<sigh> please read previous forum threads on this. Short summary -- no it isn't, and never will be... 😞

[peterboat]

9 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Hydrogen is the way forward, cheaper, less polluting and safer than  the current range of electric cars

Nooooooooooooo

[manxmike]

Each to their own opinion. Having researched and spoken to experts it seems no two agree.

Once the necessary metals (mined in a very small number of places) run out maybe batteries with a longer life span will be looked at, ones that don't overheat quite as much.

 

Oops, have I upset the EV lovers?

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

 

So lots of fuel and children's lives saved 😉

 

The one thing we are not short of is children. And never will be in the foreseeable future sadly. 

[manxmike]

By the way, I would love to be "greener" but as a pensioner on a very limited budget I can't afford even a second hand EV. I currently have a Daihatsu Charade, it cost me £450, does 55 miles per gallon, costs next to nothing to tax and insure. That's about as green as I can go.

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Each to their own opinion. Having researched and spoken to experts it seems no two agree.

Once the necessary metals (mined in a very small number of places) run out maybe batteries with a longer life span will be looked at, ones that don't overheat quite as much.

 

Oops, have I upset the EV lovers?

Nope Google how many hydrogen cars in UK and how many filling stations then you will understand why it's not going to happen