Surveyor for safety inspection

[LadyG]

15 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it is even more subtle than that.

 

If I were a BSS bod the question I would be constantly asking myself is "Am I gonna end up in court over this?" 

 

If I decide neither the boater nor any passers-by seem likely to get injured or killed if I pass this bote, (even if the right BS number is not legible on this hose, for example), then I'm gonna pass it, take the money and get on with the next one. This also means I am assessing the safety of the boater as well as his bote. 

 

The BSS bods who 'go down the mine' and check simply everything, won't stay in business for long.

Income from BSC depends also on the demand, there are overheads as well as fees, but they can also pick up customers for other work, as mine did, charged about £200 for half a day's work, not great if that's the only work, but pretty good if he has other work. 

The examiner will have professional indemnity insurance, extremely unlikely he will end up in court unless as a witness, the expert type.

Edited March 4, 2022 by LadyG

[dmr]

27 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it is even more subtle than that.

 

If I were a BSS bod the question I would be constantly asking myself is "Am I gonna end up in court over this?" 

 

If I decide neither the boater nor any passers-by seem likely to get injured or killed if I pass this bote, (even if the right BS number is not legible on this hose, for example), then I'm gonna pass it, take the money and get on with the next one. This also means I am assessing the safety of the boater as well as his bote. 

 

The BSS bods who 'go down the mine' and check simply everything, won't stay in business for long.

 

When we had the Manchester Ship Canal survey it did feel that it was us rather than the boat that was getting surveyed. In fact when we purchased the boat the surveyor (who is sadly no longer with us) said, "the boats ok but I'm a bit worried about you". Maybe the BSS is the same, if the boats tidy and you are an experienced boater the BSS man will have a quick look and a chat, if the boats rough and you have empty cider bottles all over the place the BSS man might feel a a good look is required to help you stay alive????

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

BSS man might feel a a good look is required to help you stay alive????

 

You have fallen into the trap of thinking the BSS is something it is not - remember keeping you alive is not the stated aim of the BSS.

 

The BSS "Mission Statement" - where does it mention the owner / skipper of the boat being tested ?

The BSS is simply to protect the waterways workforce and other 'passers-by'.

 

The Boat Safety Scheme, or BSS, is a public safety initiative owned equally by the Canal & River Trust and the Environment Agency. Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You have fallen into the trap of thinking the BSS is something it is not - remember keeping you alive is not the stated aim of the BSS.

 

The BSS "Mission Statement" - where does it mention the owner / skipper of the boat being tested ?

The BSS is simply to protect the waterways workforce and other 'passers-by'.

 

And YOU have fallen into the trap of believing what you read on the internet. 

 

I hold that the point of the BSS is so if someone gets killed, including the boater, there is someone to blame. 

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You have fallen into the trap of thinking the BSS is something it is not - remember keeping you alive is not the stated aim of the BSS.

 

The BSS "Mission Statement" - where does it mention the owner / skipper of the boat being tested ?

The BSS is simply to protect the waterways workforce and other 'passers-by'.

 

The Boat Safety Scheme, or BSS, is a public safety initiative owned equally by the Canal & River Trust and the Environment Agency. Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users.

 

Might I suggest that you have fallen into the trap of reading rules and regulations rather than real world boating??? 😀 All of the BSS men that I have dealt with (and a few MOT testers too) have shown an interest in keeping me and others alive and well rather than just following rules and regulations.

 

Why does the BSS include CO meters if its not to keep me alive???

 

I remember my daughter boarding an Auringy Trislandar with too much luggage, the airport check in man said "its not about the rules, I don't care how much your bag weights, but you will be on that plane".

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

I remember my daughter boarding an Auringy Trislandar with too much luggage, the airport check in man said "its not about the rules, I don't care how much your bag weights, but you will be on that plane".

 

Surely that's meaningless unless they also weigh the passengers?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

Why does the BSS include CO meters if its not to keep me alive???

 

I have answered that a number of times.

 

The BSS had a huge job getting that included in the BSS because you cannot legally stop someone killing themselves, suicide is legal.

Finally they used a fudge :

 

The CO alarm is to prevent you being poisoned by CO drifting into your boat from another boat

 

Don't believe me - do a search on the BSS website and look at the consultation they carried out.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Surely that's meaningless unless they also weigh the passengers?

We use to do that Offshore for helicopter flights

[dmr]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Surely that's meaningless unless they also weigh the passengers?

 

My days of flying to Alderney are thankfully over, but the passengers walked out to the plane and lined up outside, the pilot then looked them over and decided who was sitting where based on their fatness. They sometimes took a bit of cargo on the folded down rear seats and then heavy passengers were used to restore the balance of the plane.. Just like boats but scarier.,

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

Why does the BSS include CO meters if its not to keep me alive???

 

 

Well its to keep my guests alive, obviously! Who cares about me, anyway?

 

 

[cuthound]

My  BSC is due in June, so can be done from next month.

 

I have Googled the changes from April 2022, but nothing specific has come up. Does anyone here know what the changes are?

 

 

[GUMPY]

42 minutes ago, cuthound said:

My  BSC is due in June, so can be done from next month.

 

I have Googled the changes from April 2022, but nothing specific has come up. Does anyone here know what the changes are?

 

 

The cost to examiners is going up from 1/4/22 I have mine booked before the end of March 😉

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

The cost to examiners is going up from 1/4/22 I have mine booked before the end of March 😉

 

The fee the examiner pays the BSS went up from £36 + VAT to £43 + VAT in 2020 - what is the new rate ?

 

 

 

[Momac]

48 minutes ago, cuthound said:

My  BSC is due in June, so can be done from next month.

 

I have Googled the changes from April 2022, but nothing specific has come up. Does anyone here know what the changes are?

 

 

According to the latest version on the website the changes drafted in September 2021 are to assist with clarity etc - see below. So sounds like no fundamental changes .

I think the best preparation is to have the boat clean and tidy with nothing in the way of access for inspection, and the last certificate ready for inspection.

I have never attended a BSS inspection . I used to survey houses and the survey always took longer when the house owner following on and asking questions. Much easier to let the boat speak for itself. Be available by phone in case of need.

 

[cuthound]

7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

According to the latest version on the website the changes drafted in September 2021 are to assist with clarity etc - see below. So sounds like no fundamental changes .

I think the best preparation is to have the boat clean and tidy with nothing in the way of access for inspection, and the last certificate ready for inspection.

I have never attended a BSS inspection . I used to survey houses and the survey always took longer when the house owner following on and asking questions. Much easier to let the boat speak for itself. Be available by phone in case of need.

 

 

Thanks, I'll be using the same examiner as last time as he is a registered Gas Safe bid so can test the gas system for leaks using a manometer.

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, MartynG said:

According to the latest version on the website the changes drafted in September 2021 are to assist with clarity etc - see below. So sounds like no fundamental changes .

I think the best preparation is to have the boat clean and tidy with nothing in the way of access for inspection, and the last certificate ready for inspection.

I have never attended a BSS inspection . I used to survey houses and the survey always took longer when the house owner following on and asking questions. Much easier to let the boat speak for itself. Be available by phone in case of need.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately it appears that nothing is in the public domain regarding any changes from THE CONSULTATION DOCUMENT you quote. In the last 6 months there could have been huge changes or even new requirements suggested by the consultees, or, it may just be a reprint of the old requirements with 100 pages of additional 'details'. 

 

Interesting that the illustations of (for example) the gas systems and definition of a 'self draining cockpit' use a yacht rather than an inland waterways boat where the requirement are actually applicable.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[GUMPY]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The fee the examiner pays the BSS went up from £36 + VAT to £43 + VAT in 2020 - what is the new rate ?

I don't know, I was told by my BSS examiner that his fee was going up on 1/4/22 because of the rise in costs from the BSS. So either he has delayed for two years or there is another rise coming.

[MtB]

46 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Thanks, I'll be using the same examiner as last time as he is a registered Gas Safe bid so can test the gas system for leaks using a manometer.

 

Frankly, none of that quite follows.

 

1) Your boat is not a dwelling so a GSR bod is not required to test the gas system, any old Tom, Dick or Harry is allowed to test with a manometer.

 

2) Although your BSS bod is GSR but he may not necessarily have the competence "LPG Boats" listed on his ID card.

 

3) Your BSS bod may well have "LPG Boats", but the vast majority of GSR bods do not have it, so a gas bod being GSR absolutely does NOT mean he is competent to work on gas in boats. 

 

4) Even if your boat is a dwelling, a BSS bod who is not GSR can still carry out the test for gas soundness using a bubble tester, if you have one fitted. 

 

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

1) Your boat is not a dwelling so a GSR bod is not required to test the gas system, any old Tom, Dick or Harry is allowed to test with a manometer.

 

2) Although your BSS bod is GSR but he may not necessarily have the competence "LPG Boats" listed on his ID card.

 

3) Your BSS bod may well have "LPG Boats", but the vast majority of GSR bods do not have it, so a gas bod being GSR absolutely does NOT mean he is competent to work on gas in boats. 

 

4) Even if your boat is a dwelling, a BSS bod who is not GSR can still carry out the test for gas soundness using a bubble tester, if you have one fitted. 

 

 

 

Good list.  I'd hope that any BSS inspector who are advertising themselves as GSR would have LPG + Boats though!

 

I think the most important bit about a bubble tester is you can check your own gas soundness any time you wish in the four years between tests.  I make it a habit to do it when I swap a gas bottle as I'm already mauling about in the gas locker.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

Good list.  I'd hope that any BSS inspector who are advertising themselves as GSR would have LPG + Boats though!

 

I think the most important bit about a bubble tester is you can check your own gas soundness any time you wish in the four years between tests.  I make it a habit to do it when I swap a gas bottle as I'm already mauling about in the gas locker.

 

One point about the bubble tester people overlook. It only tests the installation upstream of the tester. You could have a massive leak on the pipework between gas bottle and bubble tester, and the only way of knowing about it would be your sense of smell. And not all boaters have one! 

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, MtB said:

 

One point about the bubble tester people overlook. It only tests the installation upstream of the tester. You could have a massive leak on the pipework between gas bottle and bubble tester, and the only way of knowing about it would be your sense of smell. And not all boaters have one! 

 

True, but the moths in my wallet are very photosensitive.  They scream loudly every time I have to open it.  If a new £40 gas bottle didn't last a day I'd definitely notice ...

 

More seriously, a bubble tester fitted in the gas locker means if this happens the gas can escape safely without filling the boat with propane.  

[David Mack]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

One point about the bubble tester people overlook. It only tests the installation upstream of the tester.

Downstream surely!

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Downstream surely!

 

Lol, oh yeah you're right..!!!! 

 

But as gets claimed occasionally over on the politics board, "Everyone knows what I meant"..! 

[cuthound]

43 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Frankly, none of that quite follows.

 

1) Your boat is not a dwelling so a GSR bod is not required to test the gas system, any old Tom, Dick or Harry is allowed to test with a manometer.

 

2) Although your BSS bod is GSR but he may not necessarily have the competence "LPG Boats" listed on his ID card.

 

3) Your BSS bod may well have "LPG Boats", but the vast majority of GSR bods do not have it, so a gas bod being GSR absolutely does NOT mean he is competent to work on gas in boats. 

 

4) Even if your boat is a dwelling, a BSS bod who is not GSR can still carry out the test for gas soundness using a bubble tester, if you have one fitted. 

 

 

1) No my boat is not a dwelling, but I prefer the gas system to be tested with a manometer because they are more sensitive and easier to read than a bubble tester 

 

2) My BSS examiner has the necessary LPG Boats endorsements and is a a marine technician as well as an examiner so can fix any issue that may be found.

 

3) See 2 above. I have used him before and trust his judgement and work 

 

4) I know but see 1 above why I prefer tests using a manometer. 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

1) No my boat is not a dwelling, but I prefer the gas system to be tested with a manometer because they are more sensitive and easier to read than a bubble tester 

 

2) My BSS examiner has the necessary LPG Boats endorsements and is a a marine technician as well as an examiner so can fix any issue that may be found.

 

3) See 2 above. I have used him before and trust his judgement and work 

 

4) I know but see 1 above why I prefer tests using a manometer. 

 

 

I agree with all of this but that is not what your post said that I felt the need to pick apart.

 

I think it is important that people understand the need for GSR people to have "LPG Boats" in particular to work on a boat. There are plenty of GSR bods who don't understand this, let alone boaters! We occasionally read people hear saying they are having a GSR bod do some gas work on their boat and on questioning, it turns out the GSR bod is only qualified for natural gas in houses.

 

On a related note, I understand there are a very few houseboats around with permanent natural gas supplies. There is no qualification equivalent to "LPG Boats" for this!  

(AFAIK)