Surveyor for safety inspection

[Slow and Steady]

My BSS inspector tells me I can fit a simple pressure gauge instead of a bubble tester - pressure the system, turn off the gas, check the gauge after 1/2 hour.

 

I concur from the BSS inspections I've had that the inspector relies on inspecting me as much as the boat. The first one checked the engine fuel hoses, the fire extinguishers, glanced around generally and chatted for 1/2 an hour. He deemed me interested in being safe and competent and by extension so was the boat. The second one was more interested in not failing me on the usual things that inspectors (willfully?) misunderstand. He'd only become an inspector after being failed twice himself for things that are not fails and chatting to other boaters in the same position.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

He'd only become an inspector after being failed twice himself for things that are not fails

Are BSS Examiners allowed to certify their own boat?

[Slow and Steady]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are BSS Examiners allowed to certify their own boat?

Good question! He was a retired engineer but re-trained including the relevant gas stuff specifically to save boaters being bamboozled by idiots. Not sure he even had a boat by the time he started inspecting. He had a thing about boaters being forced to hack up and spoil their boats for unnecessary ventilation which is what happened to him and a few of his neighbours.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

My BSS inspector tells me I can fit a simple pressure gauge instead of a bubble tester - pressure the system, turn off the gas, check the gauge after 1/2 hour.

 

 

Really?!

 

Nice to find a BSS bod with a sense of humour.....

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are BSS Examiners allowed to certify their own boat?

 

I seem to remember reading in the examiners notes, that they can, but it does leave one open to 'accusations' and is considered to be not 'best practice'.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I seem to remember reading in the examiners notes, that they can, but it does leave one open to 'accusations' and is considered to be not 'best practice'.

 

Its an interesting thought. How much does it cost to train to be a BSS bod?

 

What is the process, does anyone know?

 

 

[Slow and Steady]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Really?!

 

Nice to find a BSS bod with a sense of humour.....

 

 

Is that really any different to a manometer?

[MtB]

Just now, Slow and Steady said:

Is that really any different to a manometer?

 

It's a whole world apart.

 

For a start, you won't have done a let-by test to prove the gas isolator valve is closing properly. And where in the system does he propose fitting this pressure gauge?

 

Before, or after the regulator?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Slow and Steady said:

Is that really any different to a manometer?

 

If it has a large enough scale then probably not, but taking this as you wrote it:

 

21 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

My BSS inspector tells me I can fit a simple pressure gauge instead of a bubble tester - pressure the system, turn off the gas, check the gauge after 1/2 hour.

 

It will almost certainly tell you absolutely nothing about anything but a large leak because the high pressure gas in the bottle hoses would simply may up for any loss. It is the procedure that is important for both pressure gauges and manometers if you want an accurate result.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Its an interesting thought. How much does it cost to train to be a BSS bod?

 

What is the process, does anyone know?

 

 

 

Its all on their website - you pay £170 + VAT per annum for your 'licence to operate', various small sums to cover training days, and £50 odd every time you 'pass' a boat,

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Its all on their website - you pay £170 + VAT per annum for your 'licence to operate', various small sums to cover training days, and £50 odd every time you 'pass' a boat,

 

 

FAR CANAL... from their website:

 

"The current Programme fee is £4994 (plus VAT) which is split into stage payments."

 

Plus nearly three weeks of training at various sites in stupid parts of the country like Norwich and Evesham.

 

I spent less time a money than that, getting myself GSR! 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

FAR CANAL... from their website:

 

"The current Programme fee is £4994 (plus VAT) which is split into stage payments."

 

Plus nearly three weeks of training at various sites in stupid parts of the country like Norwich and Evesham.

 

I spent less time a money than that, getting myself GSR! 

 

 

O'yes - I forgot to mention the initial fee.

[David Mack]

41 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are BSS Examiners allowed to certify their own boat?

 

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I seem to remember reading in the examiners notes, that they can, but it does leave one open to 'accusations' and is considered to be not 'best practice'.

Ahh!

"I will inspect your boat, if you will inspect mine."

[MtB]

So what is considered the going rate for a BSS nowadays? £160 I think. 

 

So after the fee paid to BSS and some travelling costs the examiner ends up with perhaps £100 out of it. Doesn't seem worth the effort of driving perhaps 30 miles to the boat and back again, plus an hour or two vaguely checking stuff out whilst hoping not to find anything that will involve a second visit. 

 

Different I guess if you can line up five in one day in the same marina, but arranging that would probably take up a whole day on the phone first! 

 

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

I agree with all of this but that is not what your post said that I felt the need to pick apart.

 

I think it is important that people understand the need for GSR people to have "LPG Boats" in particular to work on a boat. There are plenty of GSR bods who don't understand this, let alone boaters! We occasionally read people hear saying they are having a GSR bod do some gas work on their boat and on questioning, it turns out the GSR bod is only qualified for natural gas in houses.

 

On a related note, I understand there are a very few houseboats around with permanent natural gas supplies. There is no qualification equivalent to "LPG Boats" for this!  

(AFAIK)

 

Sound like the GSR needs to improve its communications with those on its register... 🤔😄

[MtB]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

Sound like the GSR needs to improve its communications with those on its register... 🤔😄

 

 

Like CRT they can't afford to. GSR has an income of only £50m a year, hardly enough to even cover the directors' bonuses.

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

Like CRT they can't afford to. GSR has an income of only £50m a year, hardly enough to even cover the directors' bonuses.

 

I almost became registered with the GSR's predecessor CORGI when I first started with BT. In those days power maintenance technicians were expected to fix everything in the building, power plant, lifts, kitchen equipment, lighting, heating etc. Iwas just about to do the CORGI course when BT reorganised into "operational" and "building services" staff.

 

The brighter staff were chosen to do the "operational" (power plant, chillers, HV, UPS etc) whilst the rest did domestic stuff like lighting, kitchen equipment, heating and lifts. Eventually the "building services people were TUPE'd out to external contractors.

[Momac]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Interesting that the illustations of (for example) the gas systems and definition of a 'self draining cockpit' use a yacht rather than an inland waterways boat where the requirement are actually applicable.

As you know there are plenty of sea boats on the Trent. Although not many yachts (with sails).

The self draining cockpit illustration was very relevant to my first boat where the gas locker was off the cockpit.

My present boat also has a self draining cockpit although the gas locker has its own drain.

The BSS has to cover all types of boat and certainly not just craft intended for the inland waterways .

 

You are quite right the BSS could have made many changes . The fact that they have not published the relevant final document indicates the current  version, not the draft new one ,  applies at present.

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The BSS has to cover all types of boat and certainly not just craft intended for the inland waterways .

 

Why ?

Where else, apart from inland waterways is the BSS required ?

 

In fact the BSS is not required on all Inland Waterways & only where AINA members have signed up to use the BSS - as I'm sure you know, the BSS is a joint venture owned jointly by the EA and C&RT.

 

 

The BSS is neither required nor applicable for coastal or offshore waters.

 

Had a big problem with the marina at Hull who insisted that we must have a BSSC before we could take a mooring as it was 'company policy' across the BWML group (now Aquavista) after asking how the Border Force boats managed to get a mooring, and explaining that there is no way our 'Blue-Water Category A boat" needed a BSS, I received a letter from the MD apologising for the inconvenience and explaining that 'the girls in the office' did not realise that sea-going vessels did not need a BSSC and the company policy was being changed to refelect that.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

So what is considered the going rate for a BSS nowadays? £160 I think. 

 

So after the fee paid to BSS and some travelling costs the examiner ends up with perhaps £100 out of it. Doesn't seem worth the effort of driving perhaps 30 miles to the boat and back again, plus an hour or two vaguely checking stuff out whilst hoping not to find anything that will involve a second visit. 

 

Different I guess if you can line up five in one day in the same marina, but arranging that would probably take up a whole day on the phone first! 

 

 

I paid £180 in 2020.

I agree it's not big money. 

 

I have just come from a friends boat . He is waiting for a BSS examination . One surveyor declined as he had no other work in the area. The surveyor who is coming has one other boat to do and I suspect he needs a third boat requiring a BSS to make it worth the trouble.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why ?

Where else, apart from inland waterways is the BSS required ?

 

In fact the BSS is not required on all Inland Waterways & only where AINA members have signed up to use the BSS - as I'm sure you know, the BSS is a joint venture owned jointly by the EA and C&RT.

 

 

The BSS is neither required nor applicable for coastal or offshore waters.

 

As I explained, and as you are well aware,  there are many such boats on the inland waterways .

 

I agree the BSS is not applied on coastal waters but I don't see why it is ''not applicable'' since things like gas  safety, pollution prevention, CO alarms and fire extinguishers a are equally applicable regardless of the location of the boat.

.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree the BSS is not applied on coastal waters but I don't see why it is ''not applicable'' since things like gas  safety, pollution prevention, CO alarms and fire extinguishers a are equally applicable regardless of the location of the boat.

.

 

It is not applicable because it is not required. The RCD/RCR is much more respected on coastal waters than it is inland, and has higher standards on safety things that the BSS does.

If someone wants to pay £160-£200 to have their boat checked to an inferior standard then that option, is of course, available to them.

[Momac]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is not applicable because it is not required. The RCD/RCR is much more respected on coastal waters than it is inland, and has higher standards on safety things that the BSS does.

If someone wants to pay £160-£200 to have their boat checked to an inferior standard then that option, is of course, available to them.

 

The RCD/RCR  and CE (now UKCA) marking only applies when a boat is new  and is applicable to all boats including those intended for inland waterways use. 

 

Later changes or additions  to a boat that are completely unregulated on a coastal boat may be part of the BSS - For example a retro fitted diesel heater with plastic  fuel pipes is acceptable on a boat kept on the coast because no one is required to check it to the standards of the BSS.

 

A  boat kept and used on the coast may have no fire extinguisher , no fire blanket and no CO alarm and it breaks no rules. It may be 20 years old and never had its gas  system checked for leaks.

 

I am not a fan of the BSS but I don't agree with you on this point. The BSS does include some sensible things. The CO alarm requirement  and gas  system checks are good examples. 

 

So the RCR and the BSS are not the same thing at all really . The BSS is , in part, checking whether some things that might have been part of the RCR  are being maintained . The BSS also requires new rules to be applied to older boats like the CO alarm requirement which the RCR does not.

 

I did not suggest people with coastal boats should voluntarily have a BSS undertaken but I am surprised the BSS  has  not become a requirement. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I did not suggest people with coastal boats should voluntarily have a BSS undertaken but I am surprised the BSS  has  not become a requirement. 

 

Given sea boats do not need a license, there is no mechanism by which a requirement to have a BSS inspection every four years can be forced onto everyone.