Surveyor for safety inspection

[frahkn]

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I got bunged quite a few quid to sort a fail, paid by the guy who had issued the Certificate after I complained to him direct, so that's the way to do it, lol. 

That is only a single sentence, albeit 34 words, nevertheless you haven't got your meaning across, at least to me.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

I reckon it would be at least a whole day's work to properly check everything on the BSS checklist. 

I went through the checklist myself before the BSS inspection. Took me a full day, and that's on a boat I know. I still couldn't determine whether the flexible fuel pipes were labeled with the correct standard under all the dirt and oil.

I then got the same BS Examiner who had done the last couple of examinations of the boat (before my ownership) and he was there for less than an hour, asked me if anything had changed since the last inspection, didn't look at very much, then said that if nothing had changed he was sure it would all be fine, and he gave me a pass!

 

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

First, let me say that whatever you want to do on your own boats is of course fine.

 

But second, this seem to me to be beyond eccentric, it verges on weird. Can you (and do you wish to) explain this activity? Preferably in non-psychiatric  terms.

 What makes it strange behaviour to me is that A’de’E makes such a big thing about the RCD regulations and the non-compliance of the inland waterways boats, but says he has total contempt of the BSS.

  I would say normal inland waterway boaters are not really bothered about the RCD regulations, but more concerned about the BSS regulations.

  Strange to show such contempt to the examiner as to deliberately set traps for him to fail. Does it give him self satisfaction? Does he feel superior to the BSS examiner? 

I imagine he’s not missed, now he’s left the Canals. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by PD1964

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

That is only a single sentence, albeit 34 words, nevertheless you haven't got your meaning across, at least to me.

When I bought my boat with a Certificate, I discovered several fails. I telephoned the Examiner, he came out, discussed the installation and gave me enough cash to pay for the remedies. 

I got a different Examiner to come and do the repair work, he examined the boat, identified the problems, using a BSC form, sorted the fails, and advisories, and issued a Certificate, it was £160 for Certificate, £100 for work done. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by LadyG

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

When I bought my boat with a Certificate, I discovered several fails. I telephoned the Examiner, he came out, discussed the installation and gave me enough cash to pay for the remedies. 

I got a different Examiner to come and do the repair work, he examined the boat, identified the problems, using a BSC form, sorted the fails, and advisories, and issued a Certificate, it was £160 for Certificate, £100 for work done. 

why not just fix the faults with the £100 you were given and save yourself £160 on a retest?
You had the piece of paper to certify the boat for 4 years. 

 

 

but fair play to you for challenging it

I guess it was something minor to fix but an obvious error that caused ‘embarrassment’ to the original examiner

 

[LadyG]

36 minutes ago, Goliath said:

why not just fix the faults with the £100 you were given and save yourself £160 on a retest?
You had the piece of paper to certify the boat for 4 years. 

 

 

but fair play to you for challenging it

I guess it was something minor to fix but an obvious error that caused ‘embarrassment’ to the original examiner

 

I wanted a boat that was safe, some of these fails were unsafe. How would I know if there were other unsafe practices? 

I was annoyed when I came to look at the boat, after purchase, as it was clear these fails were longstanding. 

The new GasSafe examiner not only sorted the obvious fails on the boat, but also found that the cooker had armoured hose connection , which was also a fail. Possibly, none of the others examiners, presumably not Gas qualified had examined the stove installation. 

The previous Certificate did not cover the next four years. 

If someone is going to issue a certificate they should be qualified and competant, I assume there are not enough GS, lpg on boat examiners to certify all boats with gas, so the BSC has deemed the practice acceptable. 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by LadyG

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

How would I know if there were other unsafe practices? 

Ok 

Good point 👍

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

 What makes it strange behaviour to me is that A’de’E makes such a big thing about the RCD regulations and the non-compliance of the inland waterways boats, but says he has total contempt of the BSS.

  I would say normal inland waterway boaters are not really bothered about the RCD regulations, but more concerned about the BSS regulations.

  Strange to show such contempt to the examiner as to deliberately set traps for him to fail. Does it give him self satisfaction? Does he feel superior to the BSS examiner? 

I imagine he’s not missed, now he’s left the Canals. 

 

I tend to work on the basis that if I pay for something, I expect to get what I have paid for. It is very annoying when you pay and don't get what you expected - not only annoying but it is fraudulent. The examiner is signing to say he has examined the boat and it meets the required standards.

I do not feel superior to the examiner - I feel let down that the BSS has no control over what its 'employees' do, & when questioned they simply shrug their shoulders and seemingly support the examinerirrespective of the complaint.

 

On the subject of 'normal' inland waterway boaters, I wonder how many would have the BSS done on their boat if it was not just a means to an end (getting a licence). It suprises me how many will accept any shoddy work and only want 'a piece of paper' to satisfy C&RT, the fact the the boat does not comply with the requirements appears to be irellevant to some.

Maybe you just view it as an extra-premium to be added onto the licence fee.

 

Unlike the BSS the RCD is designed to provide safety to the boat / boater, (the BSS is designed to offer safety to C&RT workers and other boaters - see the BSS statement on their website)

 

Because the RCD is not essential for obtaining the necessary licence it is viewed as superfluous - many of the British Inland waterways boaters appear as a very anti-authority group, and unless it is to their personal benefit will avoid doing anything that requires records to be kept and paperwok used. In my (limited) experience of European waters and boats GB Inland boaters are unique in this. Other countries support the requirements and view their boats as being safer because of the RCD.

 

There has undoubtably been some 'mission creep' in the RCD but fundamentally it is a valuable asset in boat safety.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

I went through the checklist myself before the BSS inspection. Took me a full day, and that's on a boat I know. I still couldn't determine whether the flexible fuel pipes were labeled with the correct standard under all the dirt and oil.

 

 

Did you not know you should keep your boat compliant with the BSS requirements at all times. Therefore preparation for the BSS  examination should take very little time.

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

 

Did you not know you should keep your boat compliant with the BSS requirements at all times. Therefore preparation for the BSS  examination should take very little time.

 

I guess it would. 
But how many of us know how to do that ?

 

 

[David Mack]

7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

Did you not know you should keep your boat compliant with the BSS requirements at all times. Therefore preparation for the BSS  examination should take very little time.

 

Where did I say the boat was non-compliant? I was pretty sure that it did comply, and I had a valid BSC from the previous owner, and nothing much relevant had changed since the previous examination. But with the BSC renewal coming up I thought it prudent to do a thorough check, so any non compliance could be rectified before the examination.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I guess it would. 
But how many of us know how to do that ?

 

 

 

The instructions and list of things to check is published on the BSS website.

The new issue of the BSS starts 1/4/22 (and has doubled in pages - now 167 pages)

Simply work your way down the list and tick-off fail or pass.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The instructions and list of things to check is published on the BSS website.

The new issue of the BSS starts 1/4/22 (and has doubled in pages - now 167 pages)

Simply work your way down the list and tick-off fail or pass.

Now?

Really?

I was gonna have another pint. 
 

and it’s dark

maybe tomorrow 

[Momac]

 

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Where did I say the boat was non-compliant? I was pretty sure that it did comply, and I had a valid BSC from the previous owner, and nothing much relevant had changed since the previous examination. But with the BSC renewal coming up I thought it prudent to do a thorough check, so any non compliance could be rectified before the examination.

That's my point really . Why wait for the BSS test date to be coming up.

Perhaps because I have a lumpy water boat I like to be sure everything is in working order - or at least I am aware of any faults  requiring attention  (not that the BSS covers most of it).

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

16 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

That's my point really . Why wait for the BSS test date to be coming up.

Perhaps because I have a lumpy water boat I like to be sure everything is in working order - or at least I am aware of any faults  requiring attention  (not that the BSS covers most of it).

 

Why does it matter more if your a lumpy water sailor?

I thought you all got along with sails?

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Goliath
A wooden leg and a parrot.

[Momac]

7 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Why does it matter more if your a lumpy water sailor?

I thought you all got along with sails?

 

If something fails  at sea it has a potential to be more serious compared to a failure on a canal.

My boat doesn't have sails .

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

If something fails  at sea it has a potential to be more serious compared to a failure on a canal.

My boat doesn't have sails .

 

 

What no sails!!

What no sails!!

Get some 

They could come in well handy in the wind

Might even move the boat for you

Mind, You’d have to know how to use them.  🤷‍♀️ 

What’s the point of going to sea with no sails!!

unless your a fisherman 

 

😃

 

 

 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I went through the checklist myself before the BSS inspection. Took me a full day, and that's on a boat I know. I still couldn't determine whether the flexible fuel pipes were labeled with the correct standard under all the dirt and oil.

 

This is a good example of how the BSS has run out of control with its 'gold plating'.

 

Check 1: Are the flexible fuel pipes in good condition and not leaking? Yes = PASS, No = FAIL

Check 2: Are the flexible fuel pipes visibly marked with the correct standard? Yes = PASS, no = FAIL

 

In my personal opinion Check 1 is fine and necessary for safety. Check 2 is over-egging it, unnecessary 'gold plating' which brings the whole scheme into disrepute for being overly strict on issues that here in the real world, don't matter.

 

Another example would be the strict rules about the type of material the injector leak-off tubes can be made from. Even if the leak-off pipes completely fell off the amount of fuel spilled would be trivial and present minimal real-world risk. 

 

 

 

[Momac]

14 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What’s the point of going to sea with no sails!!

Well a yacht  would be no use on the river. I keep my boat in a marina off the river . Being river based is why I am on this forum.

And  yachts are a bit slow. I have done some sailing - in Greece and in Wales . But the whole rag and stick thing is hard work.

On my own boat I can cruise at 25knots at sea , if its not too lumpy.  But thats expensive on fuel so most of the time we are on the river. I like both environments.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

I wanted a boat that was safe, some of these fails were unsafe. How would I know if there were other unsafe practices? 

I was annoyed when I came to look at the boat, after purchase, as it was clear these fails were longstanding. 

The new GasSafe examiner not only sorted the obvious fails on the boat, but also found that the cooker had armoured hose connection , which was also a fail. Possibly, none of the others examiners, presumably not Gas qualified had examined the stove installation. 

The previous Certificate did not cover the next four years. 

If someone is going to issue a certificate they should be qualified and competant, I assume there are not enough GS, lpg on boat examiners to certify all boats with gas, so the BSC has deemed the practice acceptable. 

 

I am surprised your pre purchase survey didn't pick them up

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Now?

Really?

I was gonna have another pint. 
 

and it’s dark

maybe tomorrow 

 

I guess you really are on the 'pop'

 

You asked how you know how to prepare for the examination ?

You didn't mention that you wanted to do it NOW !

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This is a good example of how the BSS has run out of control with its 'gold plating'.

 

Check 1: Are the flexible fuel pipes in good condition and not leaking? Yes = PASS, No = FAIL

Check 2: Are the flexible fuel pipes visibly marked with the correct standard? Yes = PASS, no = FAIL

 

In my personal opinion Check 1 is fine and necessary for safety. Check 2 is over-egging it, unnecessary 'gold plating' which brings the whole scheme into disrepute for being overly strict on issues that here in the real world, don't matter.

 

Another example would be the strict rules about the type of material the injector leak-off tubes can be made from. Even if the leak-off pipes completely fell off the amount of fuel spilled would be trivial and present minimal real-world risk. 

 

 

 

I can get you on a technicality there, my spill rail also takes the leak off from the injection pump itself and this can be significant.

But your sentiments are spot on. The BSS is not a money spinner though I know a few testers do just about almost make a living out of it, and most testers are probably not even going to check the wording on the fuel lines. My experience of testers is that they want to get in and out in a fairly reasonable time but also make sure that the boat is safe. The more time they spend on trivia the less time they have for the important stuff. Maybe I have been lucky but all the ones I have met have wanted to pass the boat but inform me of anything that might be a bit marginal without getting bogged down in detail.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I guess you really are on the 'pop'

 

You asked how you know how to prepare for the examination ?

You didn't mention that you wanted to do it NOW !

I think I have  a year (or two ?)

🤷‍♀️

shan’t sleep now

[LadyG]

54 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I am surprised your pre purchase survey didn't pick them up

I was surprised the well known and well qualified surveyor who issued the BSC was incompetent. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, dmr said:

Maybe I have been lucky but all the ones I have met have wanted to pass the boat but inform me of anything that might be a bit marginal without getting bogged down in detail.

 

I think it is even more subtle than that.

 

If I were a BSS bod the question I would be constantly asking myself is "Am I gonna end up in court over this?" 

 

If I decide neither the boater nor any passers-by seem likely to get injured or killed if I pass this bote, (even if the right BS number is not legible on this hose, for example), then I'm gonna pass it, take the money and get on with the next one. This also means I am assessing the safety of the boater as well as his bote. 

 

The BSS bods who 'go down the mine' and check simply everything, won't stay in business for long.