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Surveyor for safety inspection


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29 minutes ago, Martin44 said:

Thanks Tony,

 

thought these are the same or may act in the same role.

 

A surveyor may also be authorised to carry out  BSS inspection but a BSS  examiner does not need to be a qualified surveyor or carry the same insurance. (Really how qualified and competent surveyors are is open to question).

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20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A surveyor may also be authorised to carry out  BSS inspection but a BSS  examiner does not need to be a qualified surveyor or carry the same insurance. (Really how qualified and competent surveyors are is open to question).

Ditto BSS examiners in my very limited experience. 

I assume you need a BSS examiner, but its best to check your system to rectify any obvious failures. Do you know the basic requirements? 

The BSC is designed to ensure safety of passers by rather than those on board. 

I am not sure, of minimum, but in date ABC fire extinguishers are essential. I have three. 

I also have two Co alarms and two fire alarms. 

Gas cylinders to be chained, in a gas locker which drains to exterior. 

Boat electrics are supposed to be safe, I don't think they delve to deeply. 

Gas installation ditto, depends on examiner, some are Gas Safe, some are not. 

I expect the examiner to scrutinise,   others just want him to issue the Certificate. 

£160  in t'North.  

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Ditto BSS examiners in my very limited experience. 

I assume you need a BSS examiner, but its best to check your system to rectify any obvious failures. Do you know the basic requirements? 

Thank you for reply, Yes, I have now found Boat safety scheme website, which gives all the information I need.

 

Regards

Martin

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26 minutes ago, Martin44 said:

Thank you for reply, Yes, I have now found Boat safety scheme website, which gives all the information I need.

 

Regards

Martinm

I should have mentioned:

for some obscure reason liveaboards may be treated in a different way by non Gas Safe examiners, specifically they may demand a bubble tester to be installed. I don't want to cut up my gas pipes unnecessarily so I selected a Gas Safe BSC examiner who tested the installation. He also found my cooker had nor been installed according to manufacturers specification, twenty years earlier. So at least four previous BSC inspectors had taken the money and run. I got a Gas Safe examiner, told him it was obvious that gas installation did not comply (no supports on a long run of piping), holes in bulkhead, he did an advisory inspection, sorted the installation, tested it, and issued certificate. 

For your own safety, I recommend a new gas control valve, gas test fluid, And make absolutely sure there are no holes twixt gas locker and cabin DAMHIK, again this was a boat that had passed at least four, probably five inspections. 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

for some obscure reason liveaboards may be treated in a different way

 

Not in the slightest bit 'obscure' It is the Law of the Land that residential properties (including boats) come under the GSIUR Regulations.

Leisure / part time  boaters do not fall under the same legislation.

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9 hours ago, LadyG said:

I should have mentioned:

for some obscure reason liveaboards may be treated in a different way by non Gas Safe examiners, specifically they may demand a bubble tester to be installed. I don't want to cut up my gas pipes unnecessarily so I selected a Gas Safe BSC examiner who tested the installation. 

 

I don't understand what you're talking about here. I thought all BSS inspectors were qualified to inspect gas installations on boats. What do you mean by "gas safe inspectors" ? BSS inspectors who are also qualified to work on gas systems? Getting someone to work on a gas installation is an entirely different thing from an inspection surely?

 

Also as a liveaboard I wasn't aware that my boat had been treated differently during my previous 5 BSS inspections.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't understand what you're talking about here. I thought all BSS inspectors were qualified to inspect gas installations on boats. What do you mean by "gas safe inspectors" ? BSS inspectors who are also qualified to work on gas systems? Getting someone to work on a gas installation is an entirely different thing from an inspection surely?

 

Also as a liveaboard I wasn't aware that my boat had been treated differently during my previous 5 BSS inspections.

 

 

 

 

Not all BSS examiners are 'Gas Safe ' registered and as auch they are not allowed to do 'any work' on a residential property, losening the screw where the manomenter is connected is classed as work.

The only way that a non Gas safe BSS examiner can do a BSS on a liveaboard is to either watch a gas safe approved person do the gas test, OR, to only do the BSS on a boat fitted with a bubble tester.

 

Edit to add :

 

 

Who Can Carry Out BSS Examinations On Your Boat?

All BSS Examiners are trained and assessed in the same way to carry out checks of the gas system and to be competent undertake gas-tightness tests with manometers or with bubble leak detectors. They are quality assessed and have to undergo periodic retraining and assessment.

However, the use of a boat, affects its status under UK gas legislation, as follows:-

Privately owned boats used solely for leisure and pleasure purposes

If your boat is used by you for private leisure and pleasure use, all BSS Examiners can legally carry out a full Boat Safety Scheme Examination including checking by manometer that the gas system does not leak - the tightness-test.

Please read these other pages if you think your boat is in one of the categories below.

Link to information about - Residential & Domestic use boats, liveaboard craft and houseboats

 

 

The BSS Examiner May Ask You About Your Boat's Use:

The examiners who are not on the Gas Safe register are advised as part of their initial dealings with owners to ask in advance of turning up at the mooring, about the status of the craft.

To avoid falling foul of UK law and avoiding criminal prosecution they need to find out whether the boat's use will mean they should not carry out a tightness-test using a manometer.  They may ask the following questions, just for their own personal record:

  • Is the boat hired out in the course of a business?
  • Is the boat used primarily by anyone for domestic or residential purposes (In this matter, it makes no difference to if the boat is owner-occupied or rented-out)?
  • Are people invited on board the boat in the course of a business, e.g. is it a café or shop?

Even if the answer to all the questions above is 'no', the examiner is advised to make a brief record that he or she has asked the questions and received the negative answers. This information will not be shared with BSS Office or other parties unless there is an investigation linked to gas testing by the examiner.

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used primarily for residential or domestic purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, the law demands that anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

Therefore, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 (confirming gas tightness) by either:

  • undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble leak detector where fitted and correctly located; or,
  • observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

Where a BSS Examiner is also Gas Safe registered is undertaking a BSS Examination of a boat in scope of GSIUR such as if it is a boat used mainly for domestic/residential purposes, the Examiner could potentially identify safety-related LPG issues beyond the extent of the BSS Requirements. In doing so, they may feel duty-bound under their Gas Safe registration to report and discuss the additional issues.

Does a bubble leak detector do away with the need for a Gas Safe registered engineer testing the gas system on residential boats?

Yes, because any BSS Examiner can check for leaks using a fully functioning and appropriately located bubble tester. 

It is the case however that there is no BSS requirement for a bubble leak detector and so fitting one is matter of boat owner choice.

Note that all other types of gas work, such as adding or replacing an appliance, needs to be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer with the LPG boat competence listed on his/her identity card.

Is it recommended that boat owners fit a bubble leak detector?

Yes, fitting a bubble leak detector in the LPG cylinder locker is strongly recommended because it allows owners to check for leaks themselves and so enjoy piece of mind in between BSS Examinations. It is very important that fitting bubble leak detector on residential boats (and private leisure boats) is done by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

This is because the bubble leak detector must be correctly located and oriented, and for large volume LPG systems, the engineer may need to install a bypass arrangement to allow gas to flow past the detector when it is not being used.

Are there any other alternatives to allow non Gas Safe registered BSS Examiners to check residential boat gas systems?

Unfortunately there are only two methods that can be used to check for gas leaks on boats (manometer leak check and bubble leak detector check). The only other alternative is for the non-Gas Safe registered BSS Examiner to observe a manometer leak check conducted by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

Note on the BSS Examination for non-private boats - If a vessel is a hire boat, third-party managed share-owned boat, trip boat, rented residential boat, floating business or some other form of commercial or public vessel, the boat will be examined to either the 2017 Hire Boat Requirements or 2002 BSS Standards as stipulated by the navigation authority registering your boat.

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Also as a liveaboard I wasn't aware that my boat had been treated differently during my previous 5 BSS inspections.

 

It has repeatedly been discussed on here, and the first question a BSS examiner should ask you - probably when you book the test - is  "Do you live aboard?"

 

If your BSS inspector is also Gas Safe registered for LPG + Boats you're fine.  If you have a bubble tester fitted, you're fine.

 

A BSS inspector who is not Gas Safe LPG + Boats registered testing a boat without a bubble tester in the gas system is committing a criminal offence and your BSSC is invalid ...

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Ok, but in 5 inspections from different examiners I've never been asked whether I live aboard. Also I fitted a bubble tester from the start so that's probably why I never realised there was a difference between inspectors because they can all inspect my gas system without having to unscrew anything.

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A well know examiner used to do pretty much all of the livaeaboards in a marina we were in - his modus-operandi was to tell them to go out for a couple of hours before he arrived then he could not ask them if they were liveaboards, as legally he could not do liveaboard checks as he was not qualified.

 

The boat owners generally just wanted the piece of paper so they could licevce their boat, whether it was safe or not seemed irrelevent.

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The boat owners generally just wanted the piece of paper so they could licevce their boat, whether it was safe or not seemed irrelevent.

 

How exactly does the safety of boat installations change if someone is living onboard? Either the boat safe or it isn't surely? I can't see how the residential status of the owner is relevant?

Edited by blackrose
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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

How exactly does the safety of boat installations change if someone is living onboard?

 

This discussion has been ongoing for years.

As a 'leisure' boater who spends 4-6 months at a time on the boat, but it is not my primary residence the GSIUR regulations do not apply to me

A liveaboard (full time) has the full force of the law protecting them.

 

The law is an ass. But it is the law and must be complied with - it doesn't need to make sense.

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I haven't been participating in the discussion until this point so I don't really know anything about it.

 

I just get an inspector aboard once every 4 years, he passes my boat, I carry on and that's it...

Edited by blackrose
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Just now, blackrose said:

I haven't been participating in the discussion until this point so I don't really know anything about it.

 

Basically, all you need to know is the extracts from the BSS I posted above.

If you want the full-monty then you could read the GSIUR regs here :

 

The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 (legislation.gov.uk)

 

It covers all sorts of stuff - such as you cannot have a non sealed gas water heater in a bathroom

 

Room-sealed appliances 30.—

(1) No person shall install a gas appliance in a room used or intended to be used as a bathroom or a shower room unless it is a room-sealed appliance.

(2) No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of more than 14 kilowatt gross heat input in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation unless the appliance is a room-sealed appliance.

(3) No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of 14 kilowatt gross heat input or less in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation and no person shall install an instantaneous water heater unless (in each case)— (a) it is a room-sealed appliance; or (b) it incorporates a safety control designed to shut down the appliance before there is a build up of a dangerous quantity of the products of combustion in the room concerned. (4) The references in paragraphs (1) to (3) to a room used or intended to be used for the purpose therein referred to includes a reference to— (a) a cupboard or compartment within such a room; or (b) a cupboard, compartment or space adjacent to such a room if there is an air vent from the cupboard, compartment or space into such a room.

 

 

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8 hours ago, blackrose said:

Thanks, it's fine. It doesn't seem to affect me so I'll just carry on as before.

 

True - it will only affect you should one day you choose an Examiner who doesn't have the relevant gas certification / registration.

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13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

If your BSS inspector is also Gas Safe registered for LPG + Boats you're fine. 

 

This point needs clarifying/expanding upon. 

 

Few members of the public realise "Gas Safe Registration" is multi-level, and not all GSR bods are the same.

 

A GSR bod qualified to work on gas installation "A" is not necessarily qualified to work on gas installation "B". Installation "A" might be natural gas boiler in a house, and installation "B" might be a huge gas meter in commercial kitchen or factory, or a boat using LPG. Separate quals are required for every different situation and every different class of appliance. There are reams of them! 

 

So a BSS examiner even being GSR is not necessarily enough to qualify him to to work on a boat used as a dwelling. S/he needs to have the the specific qualification "LPG for Boats". Every GSR technician is issued with a credit-card sized identity card with a list on the back of the classes of gas work they are qualified to carry out. A BSS bod who is GSR will happily show you his card listing LPG for Boats on the back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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12 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

How exactly does the safety of boat installations change if someone is living onboard? Either the boat safe or it isn't surely? I can't see how the residential status of the owner is relevant?

Why do taxis have a different inspection to a private car they both carry people on the same roads

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Why do taxis have a different inspection to a private car they both carry people on the same roads

 

Why do commercial boats have a much more demanding BSS than a private boat - they both use the same canals.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why do commercial boats have a much more demanding BSS than a private boat - they both use the same canals.

Maybe the same reason residential and leisure are different requirements

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