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Stoppage by Anderton boat Lift?


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13 minutes ago, Jonkx said:

Article in Northwich Guardian posted in my Google feed today,  suggests it will be 18 months before works start, after summer 2022 all being well. Posted twice in case link thing doesn't work. 

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19119522.major-refurbishment-project-cards-anderton-boat-lift/

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19119522.major-refurbishment-project-cards-anderton-boat-lift/

That's for the work on the Boat lift. The article also mentions that the stoppage being discussed here will likely not be resolved until mid-summer 2021.

 

MP

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have a discount token for the drydock at Northwich that I may not be able to use unless I go via Elsmere Port

 

We are booked in for blacking etc later this year so will be able to use our discount token!  I understand that Rebekah is speaking to Peel Ports about boats using the MSC  to  get to and from the Weaver when the lift is closed for extensive work.

 

haggis

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The major lift stoppage has been on the cards for a while now.  I suspect the main reason is that the computer based control system is now obsolete.  It was designed in the late 90's so is probably still running Windows 3.11 and all the exterior components will have been superseded.

 

Whilst replacing the controls it would be sensible to look at the hydraulics, particularly the lift rams and to sort out the bits that have been operationally problematic, including  the bottom well dewatering pumps.

 

A summer without the lift while it is updated is not as bad as 1984-1998 when there was no lift and next to no action by BW.

N

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By the time if the stoppage, the lift in it's current form will have operated for about 20 years. In it's original hydraulic form, it operated for over 30 years until corrosion of the hydraulics led to the conversion to lifting from overhead. In that second guise it operated successfully for 75 years, until corrosion of the support frames led to closure, lowering of the tanks and removal of the counterweights.

But then neither of the two earlier forms relied on the use of computer equipment which inevitably has a limited lifespan.

 

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26 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 

 

A summer without the lift while it is updated is not as bad as 1984-1998 when there was no lift and next to no action by BW.

N

But it will probably be more than a summer!  The article says between 6 and 18 months . The lift is a bit creaky and I can understand that such a structure requires maintenance but that is a long time to be out of operation. I wonder if they could work on one side at a  time and keep the other one working.

 

Haggis

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One would have thought the computer control system could be replaced with only minimal stoppages for fitting sensors and actuators etc. The new control system could surely be set up in parallel with the existing and commissioned and tested while retaining the ability to revert to the old system until the new is fully proven. If this was a commercial/ industrial system it would be done that way to minimise downtime.

  • Greenie 1
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2 hours ago, haggis said:

But it will probably be more than a summer!  The article says between 6 and 18 months . The lift is a bit creaky and I can understand that such a structure requires maintenance but that is a long time to be out of operation. I wonder if they could work on one side at a  time and keep the other one working.

 

Haggis

If they start in September 2022 18 months would be until March 2024.  That is only one summer  ( and two winters where there is not much movement ) with the lift out of action.

 

49 minutes ago, David Mack said:

One would have thought the computer control system could be replaced with only minimal stoppages for fitting sensors and actuators etc. The new control system could surely be set up in parallel with the existing and commissioned and tested while retaining the ability to revert to the old system until the new is fully proven. If this was a commercial/ industrial system it would be done that way to minimise downtime.

Yes, but this is CRT!   The job will be being managed to their own satisfaction by Keir.  I doubt either CRT or Keir have the in-house skills to redesign  the control system.  I doubt CRT have the skill set to manage a speciaist control contractor either.  Taking the lift out  completely and renewing the controls in one go may also have been sold as a cheaper solution as aprt of an overall programme of work.

 

The rams, tanks and gates etc. will need inspecting, but that should not take anything as long as 6 months.   I assume that CRT do not expect to find any major problems.   The framework no longer supports much, but I suppose it will need a coat of paint, again, nothing like 6 months work, but the weather is likely to allow a better job over the summer, at the cost of loss of income from the trip boat and visitor centre.

 

N

 

 

Edited by BEngo
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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

By the time if the stoppage, the lift in it's current form will have operated for about 20 years. In it's original hydraulic form, it operated for over 30 years until corrosion of the hydraulics led to the conversion to lifting from overhead. In that second guise it operated successfully for 75 years, until corrosion of the support frames led to closure, lowering of the tanks and removal of the counterweights.

But then neither of the two earlier forms relied on the use of computer equipment which inevitably has a limited lifespan.

 

And it did manage to drop on more than one occasion with boats in it

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6 hours ago, Jonkx said:

Article in Northwich Guardian posted in my Google feed today,  suggests it will be 18 months before works start, after summer 2022 all being well. Posted twice in case link thing doesn't work. 

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19119522.major-refurbishment-project-cards-anderton-boat-lift/

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19119522.major-refurbishment-project-cards-anderton-boat-lift/

 

That is about the Lift, not the collapsed bank.

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4 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 

 

The rams, tanks and gates etc. will need inspecting, but that should not take anything as long as 6 months.   I assume that CRT do not expect to find any major problems.    

N

 

 

From what I read and the budget I think they do, but I dont know where to put my hand on the info

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3 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

 

That is about the Lift, not the collapsed bank.

If you read the article Ani Sutton refers to the embankment collapse and the fact it might not be cleared before the summer

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17 hours ago, David Mack said:

If this was a commercial/ industrial system it would be done that way to minimise downtime.

Conversion from steam to electric operation took two years, during which the lift was out of action for a total of 49 days.

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  • 2 weeks later...

On topic, the Soot Hill landslip....

 

Hilariously I've asked CRT what is going on, and whether the third party landowner (or insurers) has been notified of all the costs being incurred / lost by boat owners......

 

Looking seriously at Plan B road transport....ho hum..... I can send them the bill for the sake of a stamp/email......  😁

  • Unimpressed 1
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2 minutes ago, agew said:

On topic, the Soot Hill landslip....

 

Hilariously I've asked CRT what is going on, and whether the third party landowner (or insurers) has been notified of all the costs being incurred / lost by boat owners......

 

Looking seriously at Plan B road transport....ho hum..... I can send them the bill for the sake of a stamp/email......  😁

 

What costs are being incurred?  

 

Inconvenience, sure, but not being able to move in the direction you want doesn't cost anything.

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What costs are being incurred?  

 

Inconvenience, sure, but not being able to move in the direction you want doesn't cost anything.

I haven't yet had an offer of free truck transport South - I'll keep my fingers crossed with your optimism to support me ........😉

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10 minutes ago, agew said:

On topic, the Soot Hill landslip....

 

Hilariously I've asked CRT what is going on, and whether the third party landowner (or insurers) has been notified of all the costs being incurred / lost by boat owners......

 

Looking seriously at Plan B road transport....ho hum..... I can send them the bill for the sake of a stamp/email......  😁

Under your licence Ts and Cs you accept that CRT cannot guarantee that the canal will be available for navigation.

 

Of course you can send them a bill, but don't expect it to be paid.

Edited by David Mack
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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Under your licence Ts and Cs CRT is not responsible for the canal not being available for navigation. Of course you can send them a bill, but don't expect it to be paid.

Very tongue in cheek, but also carefully aimed at the third party land owner with whom I have no terms and conditions in place ......  

  • Unimpressed 1
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5 minutes ago, agew said:

I haven't yet had an offer of free truck transport South - I'll keep my fingers crossed with your optimism to support me ........😉

 

I still don't understand what costs you think you are incurring because of the landslip though.  Can you explain please?

 

If you choose to move your boat elsewhere by road or water then that's your choice not an imposed cost.. 

  • Greenie 1
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When Lock 12 on the Aylesbury Arm collapsed BW arranged and paid for  three separate  lifts for the boats trapped below the collapse. Tuckeys transported them between Aylesbury and Willowbridge in MK.

 

N

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, agew said:

Very tongue in cheek, but also carefully aimed at the third party land owner with whom I have no terms and conditions in place ......  

And on what basis do you think he has an obligation to keep the canal navigable for you?

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